Can't blow heat down? What?

[loganj01]

I just talked to a salesman at the US Stove Factory Direct Store in Chattanooga, TN who has informed me that you cannot blow heat down. I called to ask about one of their Clayton furnaces and to see if they knew a good place to buy coal. He told me, when I informed him that I did not have a basement and would have to install the furnace in a small building, that it can't be done because the duct system has to be at least two feet higher than the furnace. Because...you can't blow heat down...it just won't go. He then offered to sell me an outdoor furnace that is specially designed to blow heat down (probably with stolen alien technology). I'm not knocking their products...I'm sure they're good quality so don't be offended if you happen to own one of these units. This guy was so serious and I finally had to thank him for his time and hang up because I couldn't hold back the laughter any longer...had to share this. This must be why all those people who have downdraft gas furnaces in their houses always look so cold :shock: That Yukon is looking better and better...

 

[CrappieKeith]

I just talked to a salesman at the US Stove Factory Direct Store in Chattanooga, TN who has informed me that you cannot blow heat down. I called to ask about one of their Clayton furnaces and to see if they knew a good place to buy coal. He told me, when I informed him that I did not have a basement and would have to install the furnace in a small building, that it can't be done because the duct system has to be at least two feet higher than the furnace. Because...you can't blow heat down...it just won't go. He then offered to sell me an outdoor furnace that is specially designed to blow heat down (probably with stolen alien technology). I'm not knocking their products...I'm sure they're good quality so don't be offended if you happen to own one of these units. This guy was so serious and I finally had to thank him for his time and hang up because I couldn't hold back the laughter any longer...had to share this. This must be why all those people who have downdraft gas furnaces in their houses always look so cold :shock: That Yukon is looking better and better...

Good quality...must be why the manuals don't allow for gravity heat or down flow ducting....LOL
1 yr warranty with 4 years of proration....along with skads of disclaimers to the warranty.

Blowing heat down is like blowing A/C up. Neither want to naturally move in that direction which causes more static pressure. The answer is to oversize the blower and motor to handle the extra load.
I would add a heat dump in the event of a power outtage so that heats can escape protecting the furnace and allowing some heat to get to the home.

As to Yukon looking better.....is there really a comparison between a plain jane wood burner(US Stove) and a well built sturdy effcient (Yukon)?

Just stick your head into both furnaces and look at the steels to start. There sure isn't much in them other furnaces...US Stove,Daka,Vogelzang....

Thanks for the mention...it appears I'm puffing my chest out again....it just kills me to see guys thinking they are getting such great deals at these chainstores.
Those other pretty red or green furnaces look so nice on the showroom floor with molded cast iron doors.

Think about it...buying from a retailer....1st the store buys from the manufacturer.Then he doubles the price to cover the stores overhead and profit margin. So what are you really getting for your hard earned money? a 900$-1500$ furnace at the store has about 200$ in materials in it...what are you getting for $200?
To add if it's made or assembled in Canada there is also a ton of freight dollars,broker fees and GST added in.
Did I add in your state sales tax too?

It just seems to me that to buy from a US manufacturer that holds it's prices down to be competive with those other furnaces and has all of the 5 attributes included into it's furnaces to make and exchange all of the btu's would be the better choice.Oh...and sell factory direct cutting out the retailer...and give you customer service direct from the factory...I'll shut up I could go on and on...dang good coffee today! wheeeew!

 

[4seasons]

I have a stove from US Stove in South Pittsburgh, TN just outside of Chattanooga. They seem to have a messed up perspective on the way things work. For example my WonderCoal states that it is a illegal to burn anything other than coal other than for ignition purposes. So they seem to think that this stove will burn coal but not be able to burn wood? However they sell the same model with a label change to WonderWood that is for wood burning. Kinda like since you can't burn coal in any old wood stove that the reverse must be true as well. So it seems logical that since heat rises that you can't make it go down except for the fact that a portion of houses have some form of heat from above system. Not to mention most warehouses that only have a overhead heat system. May not be the best or most efficient way to heat but some sales guys just cant get the concept of the customer is always right.

 

[7hpjim]

Will this help:
Blaschak Coal

 

[pook]

1-i wanna see the fire & yucon has no glass on door? why?
2- i wanna see smoke analysis for excess air & CO in the smoke, why not?

 

[jrr344]

Heat rises Duh!

 

[loganj01]

Heat rises Duh!

Not when there's a blower pushing it in another direction :dunno:

 

[jrr344]

not when there's a blower pushing it in another direction :dunno:

lol

 

[CrappieKeith]

1-i wanna see the fire & yucon has no glass on door? why?
2- i wanna see smoke analysis for excess air & CO in the smoke, why not?

TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.
__________________
Darin Johnson
www.arboristsite.com
Our business is growing

 

[laynes69]

Even though those red and green furnaces are cheaper, they will take a beating. We had one that heated our large home for 25 years and was also overfired multiple times from dad. They just aren't that efficient. It's not a furnace I would want to route below with the ducting. The companies don't want to give information that causes problems. If a stove is marketed as coal then they wouldn't suggest wood and vise versa. They dont want any liability.

 

[LEES WOODC]

Total hawgwash!
I have a Woodchuck 526. 2 main duct runs off the plenum in a tri-level house.
One goes down 5' right off the plenum , the other goes up 3 foot . The one that goes down is a 30' run before it ties into the main line.
NO issues what so ever. Install was about 9 years ago. Works great.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Total hawgwash!
I have a Woodchuck 526. 2 main duct runs off the plenum in a tri-level house.
One goes down 5' right off the plenum , the other goes up 3 foot . The one that goes down is a 30' run before it ties into the main line.
NO issues what so ever. Install was about 9 years ago. Works great.

Exactly....it's just a matter of having a blower that can move the cfm's required and one that can handle the load motor wise.

 

[pook]

TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.
__________________
Darin Johnson
www.arboristsite.com
Our business is growing

I just talked to a salesman at the US Stove Factory Direct Store in Chattanooga, TN who has informed me that you cannot blow heat down. I called to ask about one of their Clayton furnaces and to see if they knew a good place to buy coal. He told me, when I informed him that I did not have a basement and would have to install the furnace in a small building, that it can't be done because the duct system has to be at least two feet higher than the furnace. Because...you can't blow heat down...it just won't go. He then offered to sell me an outdoor furnace that is specially designed to blow heat down (probably with stolen alien technology). I'm not knocking their products...I'm sure they're good quality so don't be offended if you happen to own one of these units. This guy was so serious and I finally had to thank him for his time and hang up because I couldn't hold back the laughter any longer...had to share this. This must be why all those people who have downdraft gas furnaces in their houses always look so cold :shock: That Yukon is looking better and better...

Looking & seeing are 2 different things. Different configurations of wood furnaces can different efficiency results. A Bacharach gas analyzer can be used to analyze the exhaust gases for excess O2 [excess heat up the chimney] & CO content [unburnt fuel]..This is common when tuning an oil furnace, done yearly by a tech
Some furnaces have a viewing glass to safely look at the fire & the fuel load without opening the door & might this be considered a safety feature? & the UL listing is voided if a consumer adds glass to a furnace.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Looking & seeing are 2 different things. Different configurations of wood furnaces can different efficiency results. A Bacharach gas analyzer can be used to analyze the exhaust gases for excess O2 [excess heat up the chimney] & CO content [unburnt fuel]..This is common when tuning an oil furnace, done yearly by a tech
Some furnaces have a viewing glass to safely look at the fire & the fuel load without opening the door & might this be considered a safety feature? & the UL listing is voided if a consumer adds glass to a furnace.

Pook...you have just enough info to be dangerous...proven fact!

You know we spend thousands of dollars every year to bring in UL to maintian our listings. No other wood furnace carries the UL or ULc listing!
I've asked in the past you read up on the testing procedures the "industry" uses which you have failed to do....even after I gave you the link. I've even taken the time to talk to you over the phone.

From all accounts you've proven to be a nasty sad ole man that tells people to do crazy things that are dangerous.

You were banned for a month and it was peacefull here. Now I'm back to watching you butcher threads and puking your garbage all over....c'mon pook...can't we just hug it out!

 

[pook]

Pook...you have just enough info to be dangerous...proven fact!

You know we spend thousands of dollars every year to bring in UL to maintian our listings. No other wood furnace carries the UL or ULc listing!
I've asked in the past you read up on the testing procedures the "industry" uses which you have failed to do....even after I gave you the link. I've even taken the time to talk to you over the phone.

From all accounts you've proven to be a nasty sad ole man that tells people to do crazy things that are dangerous.

You were banned for a month and it was peacefull here. Now I'm back to watching you butcher threads and puking your garbage all over....c'mon pook...can't we just hug it out!

I ask for test data & u defer to whatever so to avoid answering? I bet yucon has a glass door onsite so to observe the fire in the furnace for testing purposes? why no video? consult with Laynes69 if need be!
ITS DANGEROUS TO OPEN A FIREDOOR SO WHY BOTHER IF U CAN SEE THE INTERIOR THRU GLASS?& U CALL ME DANGEROUS!:eyeroll:

 

[loganj01]

Since my thread has been hijacked, maligned, shot and left for dead, ect... ,I have to wonder how many brands of wood furnace actually have a glass door. I know the Caddy does. I'm far from being an authority on wood furnaces, but I have looked at a few since I a) came to the realization that, unless I win the lottery, I can't afford to heat this old barn with propane and b) the trusty Craft stove is much like the proverbial fart in a whirlwind when it's 15 degrees outside. I can't think of a one that has a glass door. I know there are quite a few stoves that have glass doors...but furnaces?

 

[laynes69]

Napoleon has one which is new with glass. Its a nice furnace with a higher output than the Caddy. That furnace has the option for an insulated door or glass. Also the Energy King 385ek has a glass viewing port. It can be argued that some heat excapes through the glass which is true, but that heat keeps my basement warm as well as the home. What's nice is not having to disturb the furnace by opening the door.

 

[loganj01]

I haven't seen those units and I will certainly look at them. You would agree that most furnaces on the market today...and most that have been built in the past...do not have a way to view the fire without opening the fire door? I do understand how it might be an advantage to be able to see the flame with a wood furnace. I don't think it's as important as it would be with an oil furnace which seems to be one of Pook's favorite points. An oil furnace has a source of liquid fuel being pumped to its burner which could have truly catastrophic results if things are not set correctly. I understand that the woodburner might puff back at you but it seems to me that it'd be common sense to stand a little to the side when opening that door. I don't yank open the door to my Craft insert (no glass) and poke my face down to look in...it has never back puffed at me but it might tomorrow. I won't buy a Caddy because I don't always have dry wood to feed it. I don't really want to go with a US Stove product because I don't think they are efficient enough. I'll probably buy a Yukon because they seem to offer a good degree of efficiency coupled with longevity and they are priced about the same as units that don't seem to offer the same efficiency/longevity/warranty. The whole wood furnace debate reminds me of a couple of kindergarten kids arguing about whose daddy is the toughest. Anyway, that's my opinion...take it and $1.50 and you can buy a cup of coffee some places :act-up:

 

[CrappieKeith]

I haven't seen those units and I will certainly look at them. You would agree that most furnaces on the market today...and most that have been built in the past...do not have a way to view the fire without opening the fire door? I do understand how it might be an advantage to be able to see the flame with a wood furnace. I don't think it's as important as it would be with an oil furnace which seems to be one of Pook's favorite points. An oil furnace has a source of liquid fuel being pumped to its burner which could have truly catastrophic results if things are not set correctly. I understand that the woodburner might puff back at you but it seems to me that it'd be common sense to stand a little to the side when opening that door. I don't yank open the door to my Craft insert (no glass) and poke my face down to look in...it has never back puffed at me but it might tomorrow. I won't buy a Caddy because I don't always have dry wood to feed it. I don't really want to go with a US Stove product because I don't think they are efficient enough. I'll probably buy a Yukon because they seem to offer a good degree of efficiency coupled with longevity and they are priced about the same as units that don't seem to offer the same efficiency/longevity/warranty. The whole wood furnace debate reminds me of a couple of kindergarten kids arguing about whose daddy is the toughest. Anyway, that's my opinion...take it and $1.50 and you can buy a cup of coffee some places :act-up:

I think if you trust what a company says about the installation which by the way has had a ton of time and money spent to ensure proper operation and you install the product as detailed out in the manual youroperation should be or close to the same as when the unit was tested and listed. Having a glass door to see a flame is not there to ensure it'sdoing what the furnace is supposed to be doing.
I trust my Jack.Sure in the beginning I'd go to check on the wood often.
After all I was used to short burn times in poorlymade furnaces.
When I got my Jack I quickly learned to stay out of it.

A tell tale sign that I need more wood is that my house starts to cool down.
I know that after 15 years of operating it I typically load it when I get up in the morning,hit it with a few pieces around 5pm and top it off before I go to bed.
When I wake up again the next morning this loading process starts all over.

Do I know exactly to the decimal point what the eff. is? No, how could Ias the burn rates is all over the board and hence the efficiency # will change. Do I need to know?
For me it's not important. As long as my house runs 24/7 on wood who cares.
When it get's into the 20's and warmer I'm onlyloading it 2 times a day and when it get's to 40 I can load it once a day.


I know my Jack uses gasification.I know it holds heats for a long time with the thermal mass built in...anyone doubt that contact Mikes Mold and ask him about his Super Jack he just bought.

Wood does not burn in a fashion that support continuety of operation. There is no AFUE rating and there are so many varibles with wood moisture contents,wind effecting drafts and other weather occurences that to say what's the efficiency or CO levellike you'd be able to measure on an oil burner is purely crazy.
Although you can do controlled tests...you'd have to have the same conditions for everyone to get the same results...hence guys like Pook just show ignorance by demanding percentages and levels.

 

[centennial60]

I've been using a super jack for about a year now. I'm very happy with it, got rid of the daka (what a joke). As for blowing the heat down, my basement is very short and due to where I had to tie into the ducting my main trunk coming off of the yukon is running slightly down hill. Hasn't been a problem yet. I'm using the optional blower from yukon. Its a four speed blower and most of the time I run it on the second speed and that provides good air flow to the registers. Even when the blower isn't running I will get some airflow to the upstairs vents. You'll be happy with a yukon and Keith is a good guy to deal with you can't go wrong.

Adam