ceadar stumps

[paccity]

i have noticed in the last 5 years or so that in some of the old ceadar cuts around here " oregon coast range" that theres ben harvesting of the good wood left on the OG ceadar stumps? mostly at the higher elevations 1000'to 2000' . are they salvaging it for shakes? never seen any crews on site , but seen were they have bundled up bolts to fly them out i think, where it's far from the roads. anybody know about this? i wouldn't mind doing a little of this. if you could make a little scratch out of it. thanks. fraser.

 

[madhatte]

I thought about doing that myself during an inter-contract downtime awhile back. I've never seen anybody actually harvesting shake bolts from stumps, but I have seen them harvesting from nurse logs on the ground. The deep heartwood can stay useable for several hundred years. I know a good OG spruce stump out near Raymond that probably has a couple thousand bf of instrument-quality wood in it, and it was only cut a dozen or so years ago. I also know some wildcrafter types who would definitely be into this sort of salvage work. What I wonder about, though, is harvest rules on both public and private land. Does this qualify as "miscellaneous forest products"? I'm not at all sure of the legality under that regime.

 

[Dayto]

They were doing that in the early 90's out here on vancouver island.
They were falling the Cedar Flairs that the hand fallers left behinde (Spring board up past the flair for easier cut with a handsaw) some of these are well over 12FT across the stump and some travel about 20 ft up , Shake rats were getting beuty bolts off the old giants.

 

[paccity]

ya, these areas i'm looking at are all spingboard stumps, they replanted with dg and re harvested , now it looks like there replanting with ceadar again. have done some looking in to the harvest of the stump wood on line , but havnt found anything on it. i do admit to taking some chunks now and then for kindling. which is prob a no no. don't know if the firewood permits i carry include the ceadar.

 

[madhatte]

I'm guessing that this is an unexplored enough market that there aren't really any solid rules about it. My advice is to be certain that the landowner has given express permission to remove stumpwood (I bet most would be just as glad to have it gone anyway, unless there are notable in-use nest cavities), and a written permit to ward off do-gooders who dont understand what you're up to.

 

[slowp]

In our fair state you are supposed to have a permit for hauling cedar and maple. I believe I was told a visit to our sheriff substation is where one obtained such a permit.

The FS firewood permit does not include cedar here. You have to get that separately. I'm pretty sure somebody would object to cutting the stumps. They are probably historically significant, full of rare snails, and may have an unruly Fisher inside who is waiting to pounce and eat a perched Spotted Owl.

Sorry....

 

[RandyMac]

In the '70s, Simpson Timber "relogged" several areas, mostly recovering stumps. It looked bad, an area with healthy regrow, torn to hell again.

 

[Humptulips]

They harvest them for shingle blocks. My area has probably the last signifigant amount of shake and shingle mills left, from Hoquiam to Forks.
Mostly they make shingle blocks out of salvage cedar because not much will make shake blocks anymore.
The industry has really been taken over by hispanics even the mills. Not too lucrative for a block cutter now but the landowners make a killing. Some units get more for the cedar salvage then the standing timber. A few years ago shingle blocks were going for $1200/cord. I haven't kept track but I think it has dropped back now. Seems I heard $800/cord last year. I'd have to check to be sure what it is now.
They don't split the shingle blocks much. They mostly rip them with a saw and cut the blocks very square. Stack up real tight.
Last I cut was about 12 years ago near Bremerton. I think I got $400/cord.
Lot of regulation on cutting cedar and don't think you can do it without a permit. You need a cutting permit and a hauling permit. I got mine from DNR but had to be signed off on from the county Sherriffs department also. You will not be able to sell anything without the permits. No mill will touch them without the proper paperwork. Firewood permits won't work except for a free ride to jail.

So few shingle mills around now that they haul blocks in here from all over the country. Seen blocks coming in from Tillamook and Darrington.

 

[paccity]

thanks, that explanes alot. might check into it more . and see if it's not to big of a hasel.

 

[Humptulips]

I'm pretty sure somebody would object to cutting the stumps. They are probably historically significant, full of rare snails, and may have an unruly Fisher inside who is waiting to pounce and eat a perched Spotted Owl.

Sorry....

Funny you should mention that. One of the last units I logged on the FS, right close to ONP Queets corridor, some greener group was doing everything they could to stop it from being logged. About 10 years prior I had been hanging back in the unit with skyline tailholds. There was one place where I had cut a springboard and left it in a tree so I could get a twister where I wanted it.
They found that and tried to get the logging stopped claiming historical signifigance. Last ditch effort on their part as they could find no Owls or Murrelets
Didn't work.

 

[paccity]

i'm suprized they havn't made boomers endangerd.

 

[madhatte]

They found that and tried to get the logging stopped claiming historical signifigance.

Oh, that's rich.

 

[Massmacfreak]

Stamper house

accity, is that house in your avatar the house where the Stamper family lived in the movie "Never Give an Inch"

Thanks
Massmacfreak

 

[RandyMac]

They tried that historical thing near Arcata. There was a firepit and two apple trees in second growth, they claimed it was a landmark homestead. It was probably where the old loggers had lunch.

 

[forestryworks]

ya, these areas i'm looking at are all spingboard stumps, they replanted with dg and re harvested , now it looks like there replanting with ceadar again. have done some looking in to the harvest of the stump wood on line , but havnt found anything on it. i do admit to taking some chunks now and then for kindling. which is prob a no no. don't know if the firewood permits i carry include the ceadar.

Does doug-fir grow faster than the cedar there? Is it western red cedar they are planting?

 

[paccity]

Does doug-fir grow faster than the cedar there? Is it western red cedar they are planting?

it looks like west red, dg is faster but not as long lived i think. there prob replanting cedar again for the long term . read a artical a year or so ago about some smaller land owners planting cedar and redwood for long term profets.

 

[paccity]

accity, is that house in your avatar the house where the Stamper family lived in the movie "Never Give an Inch"

Thanks
Massmacfreak

we have a winner. was wondering how long it would take for someone to spot it. that pic was from the early 80's. for got to take a recent pic last weekend when i drove by it.

 

[Humptulips]

Douglas fir grows a lot faster and is merchantable at a smaller size. W Red Cedar is worth more but usually scales out at less. Mostly I see Fir being planted. There must be a reason for it. I think if cedar payed better there would be more of it planted.
Of course things change. Never thought I would see alder being planted but they are now.

 

[Gologit]

We've planted quite a bit of cedar down here. It's not doing as well as expected. Check back in about thirty five years and we'll have a better idea if it's going to be viable or not.

 

[paccity]

heres some stumpage