Just yanking your chain bro , we all have high jacked the op's thread , don't think he's complaining ! lol.
Chainsaw fuel
- Thread starter bryannewton
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What ratio are you mixing the Dominator & Saber at ?
Most Commercial or Professional saw owners run their oil ratio's at 44:1 . It's an old school situation , I personally run my personal saws at 50:1 , however have always utilized some form of premium synthetic oil. Amsoil has always recommend a much leaner oil ratio with Saber . Initially 50:1 was the rich limit , then 80:1 apparently now recommended @ 100:1 only . I have a case (12) bottles , half rated 50:1 the other 80:1 . Haven't been a Dealer for over 6 yrs so the recent rating change surprised even me lol.
Mindriot
New Member
I think you've got that backwards, 40:1 would more likely foul you're plug on a 50:1 ratio because it would be running richer not leaner.
No, he is correct. He is talking about fuel/air mixture. If you add more oil you have less fuel and the same amount of air resulting in a leaner fuel/air mixture. That's why you have to adjust the mixture screws on the carb to compensate for it.
jstout
ArboristSite Lurker
I mix 100LL avgas if it has a non-catalytic muffler, and try to use synthetic oil (but also need to burn through the non-syn until it's gone). A couple of the saws have a catalytic muffler, and that prevents me from using leaded fuel (100 LL). Don't know where to get non-ethanol fuel here. Don't want to spend the high cost on the little cans of store-bought mix. The larger saws (84cc etc.) would burn through a can faster than you could sit and have a cup of coffee.
Between 50 and 32:1
B440
ArboristSite Operative
Making ethanol-free fuel from 93 octane through phase separation is where its at. No need to pay extra for some company to do it for you.
I used to set up analytic chemistry teaching labs.Never said use Regular Grade (84 octane) fuel in saws , only referenced it in comparison to mid grades & premium gasoline as to shelf life before phase separation occurred and hydro carbon & butane contents diminish . These are real world documented numbers . AV. 100ll gas has MTT butane suppression additives & Sunco 260 T has butane additive package also to suppress the flash off of various hydrocarbons & butane in storage of just over one yr for 100ll & 9 mths for 260 T. Hope this. clearly clarifies my previous statement . This shelf life can easily be further reduced in hotter ambient temps or where storage containers are not sealed properly .
One experiment we did was the analysis of fuels by gas chromotography-mass spectrometry.
I know what's in fuels and exactly how much............
You're not going to know what octane you end up with after removing the water soluble ingredients. Ethanol boosts octane rating.
Also to properly dry the organic layer you need something like anhydrous sodium or magnesium sulfate, then do a gravity filtration.
bryannewton
ArboristSite Operative
No not at all learning alot
No , he is correct the oil diminshs the fuel ratio by replacing fuel within the fuel to oil mixture . So it is a leaner fuel to air overall ratio . However more oil in a racing application , increases the overall energy (btu's) available within the fuel charge . It also increases available compression by better ring sealing & piston land & tighter piston ring to cyl. wall clearances . Proper engine tuning for this increased oil ratio enrichens ( fat) the fuel to air ratio to enable an optimum overall engine performance to the barometric pressure ( elevation ) parameter the engine is to operate within . Sometimes rejetting is also required in some extreme racing applications !
Bryan I'am going to offer a back handed apology . Your original , subject title was chainsaw fuel . Which is a combination of oil & some form of gasoline . I now realize you were mostly concerned with proper storage of today's available gasolines . However to understand that , you must understand the variable oils available to mix in Efuel & non Efuel . There are 4 Groups of Oil currently rated by Jaso Standards I, II , III & IV . Otherwise recognized as FA & FB are all but obsolete . FC(III) & FD(IV) are the most stringent testing protocol' s recognized today . All these oils Mineral (Dino) through various Premium Synthetics ( Ester vs PAO ) effect the performance of the fuel you utilize . Anyhow as I previously mentioned you have to match the oil & fuel to your engines performance application . e.g.: Recreational low compression low heat & pressure & relative low rpm operation or Racing high compression , high heat & temperature & relative high rpm operation . I think you understand various oils have additives added to the base pale oil to benefit in reducing friction ( heat) , oxidation stabilizers for (thermal viscosity break down) prevention & dispersent additives for moisture entrainment protection & viscosity stabilizers to prevent galling from extreme pressure on loading on metal to metal surfaces . ( rings & bearings ) . A lot to think about and understand . In a nutshell , most run of the mill oil do a adequate job in recreational engine usage . However only Premium Synthetic provide adequate protection in severe operative parameters and during storage . Amsoil Sabre for small hand held engines has everything req'd , a few other manufacturers do also . The majority though do not provide this protection during storage . Therefore , fuel additives such as Stabil , Startron , Seafoam , Marvel Mystery Oil etc . I prefer Startron as a stabilizer for obvious reasons e.g. 1 oz. of Startron will stabilize 16 gal. of fuel for 24 mths . 2 oz. of Marine Stabil will stabilize 2.5 gal. of fuel for 24 mths . Do the math . So sorry for the lengthy dialogue & hi jacking of your thread , hope it has helped you in some manner !
Good for you , so do i . Unfortunate that you flunked comprehension & diplomacy 101, my previous statement is correct & stands !
Nothing new , this horse has been flogged to death for the last decade by backyard hacks & moonshiners before that during prohibition ...sheesh ! Don't need to be a chemical engineer to understand corn fuel is **** , The only up side is that the American corn grower got Rich & the Amercian pig farmer got bank rolled for lost cornfeed !
Yeah I thought so bro , 32:1 way to fat for Saber , it's also has a very high detergent additive which will really spool up the spunge effect within the exhaust ports & muffler . 50 :1 is as oil rich Saber was ever recommended by Amsoil Chemical Engineers . 50:1 is exactly what Amsoil Chemical Engineers recommend for Dominator though in high temp high rpm engine applications that average domestic saws do not attain . As advised I run Dominator routinely in my woods ported 357 xp @ 44:1 , however I religiously check and clean the exhaust ports & head / rings every 50 hrs of use , which is the norm . I plan on changing over to Interceptor @ same ratio this fall , its much better oil for fatter Premix ratios in ported saw applications .
bryannewton
ArboristSite Operative
Broken
Its not a problem I am kind of a newbie to 2 stroke engines so I have learned alot so is ok lol things can change topics easily
Full disclosure time Buds ! As mentioned previously , was a former Amsoil Dealer for 3 yrs a decade ago . However always had a open mind & right to use any oil manufacturer I wished for myself or acquaintances & quite often experimented . I am 68 yrs young & have witnessed the castor oil racing wars within Motor cycle racing & professional snowmobile racing which I participated in the 70 's . I have wrenched on numerous bike & snowmobile racing teams , along with driving & riding on the ice & dirt in many international races within North America . I had Bel-Ray & Quaker State & Klotz-R as associate sponsors for over 10 yrs. However in the late 90 's I managed a professional snowcross team & Amsoil came on board from a favour of a former racing buddy Jerry Bunke (God Rest his Soul) taken much too soon . Anyway long story short , have a good working knowledge of Amsoils 2-stroke oil line up . For both Dominator advocates concerned , I apologize for my abrupt , initial response & a point of clarification , Dominator is a stout product , however not as a saw oil without caution . A little Dominator history , it was originally developed for high level Moto-x & Moto-GP racing engines @ specific engine displacement (125 cc , 250 cc & 500 cc) recognized oil ratios . The factory default ratio for this extreme service motor cycle oil was always 50:1 in Premix application only . Unfortunately people started using it for every 2-stroke application imaginable snowmobiles , ultralites , waverunners etc . & at much fatter oil ratios than intended by Amsoil engineers. Obviously Amsoil got a black eye within carbon fouling & overheating & engine failure complaints and the politics started . As a side note Interceptor was also originally developed for recreational & professional snowmobile racing application injector oil . To replace Amsoil HP injector oil that was originally sold for marine outboard injection or waverunner Premix usage . I have as previously mentioned ran caster within most recently professional snowmobile drag sled applications , were engine decarbonizing teardowns are routine . I assure you Dominator is only marginally cleaner in oem ratio recommendation , so much so that Amsoil has gone on record that it is not to be used in any air cooled hand held appliance application . Interceptor , much like Saber has a very efficient oil detergent additive & lighter viscosity index than either Dominator or Saber . Therefore it can be utilized as a injector oil or Premix oil within aircooled or liquid cooled engine recreational or racing applications , including small air cooled handheld appliances . Saber unfortunately has gone through a very political and turbulent life cycle . It was originally the " Miracle oil" otherwise know as "Scams Oil " by the competition . More so for it warranteed & expressed 100:1 mix ratio in all 2-stroke applications , including snowmobiles , motorcycles , outboard , ultralites , go carts from any ratio within 50:1 to 100:1 . Just plug in your applicable ratio of choice & tune your engine accordingly . Well "Hell Bells" that went well lol yeah right ! So in summary for Homeowner chainsaw use with Amsoil line up Saber @ no fatter than 50:1 , Interceptor or HP Injector oil @ any reasonable ratio of current saw manufacturers , with proper tuning . For Ported or Commercial saw or Hot saw applications , Saber @ 50:1 to 80:1 & Interceptor @ 44:1 , Dominator 50:1 with tuning by a competent tuner . Then let the chips fly baby , Cheers !
A few more yrs an you will be a seasoned & knowledgeable veteran , keep on reading up on proper gasoline & oil handling & welcome to the forum bud !
B440
ArboristSite Operative
Ethanol's octane rating is between 108-113. Take that 10% out of the fuel and you're left with around 91 octane, which is a convenient (for the fuel manufacturer) base fuel to start with and more than enough octane for most small engines. Simple math, which I'm sure you understand.
And no need to bring in extra chemicals. Just siphon off the top layer. You should try it before making assumptions.
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