Contracts are optional.

[lxt]

well I got jammed on tueday!! we built a versa lok wall for a customer last august & in december a portion of the wall "just fell over" the customers during the install had hit the wall on a handfull of occasions, but heres the kicker:

we arrive & demo/prep the site & are on our 3rd day before we start to dig & build....to our surprise when we start to dig we run into a drain pipe 4" round at 4-5" below surface.

work is stopped, home owner addressed & now they cant afford to remove/move the pipe nor can they afford additional build material so that the wall can be built according to mfg recommended practice.....SO...

the home owners tell me to build the wall & how/what they want done....I re-write the work authorization they sign it & I build the wall!!

I was gonna walk away...but then Im thinking from a legal standpoint...their yard is in shambles, driveway is in-accessible, the husband is on SSI & their 80+ year old mother in law/mom lives there. Quit & walk away in the middle of the project could prove costly & the liability from leaving their property in that state scared the hell outta me!!!

It should be known that no permit was required, no inspection required & that the TWP they lived in there was no code, law, ordinance or other that stated how a wall under 48" must be built...so I complied with the request of the homeowner/employer.

Judge ruled in their favor even after they stated they liked the wall, hit the wall with cars, was happy when I finished & most importantly even though they signed the work authorization stating the build method of the wall....not only did the judge rule in their favor but awarded them 2 x the bid amount!

it was clear from the first objection i had that the judge said over ruled & when I said your honor I havent stated what im objecting to & she said "it doest matter" that I knew I was jammed!!

so on the 8th I go see my Atty & appeal this ridiculous decision! any one ever been told that the contract/work authorization really doest matter? wait till I tell my Atty....hey that work Authorization I paid you to write up for me....judge said it didnt matter!! LOL...BTW...this was a magistrate for district court & a woman....not that the woman part matters but I was going against the lady home owner.....woman stick together!

Ill keep ya informed on what happens but I thought: what the hell, the home owner can tell you: build this, tear that down, I want this color, this size, ooops no re do this & that, get off my property, etc.. but when it comes down to it & in this situation "I should of walked away & not complied with the home owners request" as stated by the judge! .......then I would be defending my self for breach of contract, intentional property damage & been liable for any injuries from such for leaving an un safe work site!!

ok.....................I vented!!



LXT.....................

 

[PineFever]

You oughta be thankful you didn't go to court here in Ca.
Even Contractors who do the Job Right, professionally, and on time always get reamed by some homeowner looking to make a buck. It's very sad.
Good Luck on your appeal.

 

[RVALUE]

I missed a point, did they not pay?

 

[treemandan]

What in the #### are you talking about? Don't bother answering, I think I get it. Like I said long ago " there is validity in your statements" and although you thought I was nuts I believe you. I believe you did better than most and was/are honest and forthright in your work. I could tell.
Anyway that sucks, it hurts me too.
I have never gotten anyone to sign a proposal I have ever written. I figure it won't mean a dam thing if I have to use it and I rely soley on my word and their's. Sure, I write down what I am going to do for what price and sure its a little hairy but what isn't?
I ran into John Hoadley the other day at the arbor store. He said he found a way to get paid on those jobs that the people don't want to pay. He found a lawyer to buy his signed proposal for face value from him and then the lawyer does what he needs to to get his money. John has been in business for 30 years and has probably seen more than both of us put together. I could be wrong but if you have seen your brother's legs pulled into a Morbark then you are right on par with John. Me? I don't give a #### and most likey never did. Don't pay me, I dare ya, in fact I dare everytime I write an unsigned proposal. Yes, I am in therapy.
I am sure you did the very best for these people ( and the old ones will try to get ya for sure) and am sorry to hear about this.It must have cost you a furtune. Can you go get your bricks?

 

[treemandan]

Yes, one reason I don't make them sign is because then I would be liable to the contract just as well... whatever that means.

 

[mckeetree]

( and the old ones will try to get ya for sure)

Yeah, most of the time they will.

 

[treemandan]

Yeah, most of the time they will.

When you get burned by the old folks you are really putting yourself out for it can really hurt. Same goes for anybody in that respect.
I have some steady older clients, they see my machines break down when I am clearing the snow, they see the sweat pouring off my face when I pull the tree off their house, they hear me curse and they see my plight. That is my signed contract.
These guys who go around bragging " I got signed contracts for 6 months"? Hell, I just wonder. Signed contract my ass. Who did you sign with? The Devil?

 

[Rudedog]

You oughta be thankful you didn't go to court here in Ca.
Even Contractors who do the Job Right, professionally, and on time always get reamed by some homeowner looking to make a buck. It's very sad.
Good Luck on your appeal.

Maryland is the same way. I had a buddy who owned a home improvement business. Did additions and decks. He finally refused to do any work for people from India. They wanted everything for nothing and then would file complaints and sue when the job was completed.

 

[treemandan]

Maryland is the same way. I had a buddy who owned a home improvement business. Did additions and decks. He finally refused to do any work for people from India. They wanted everything for nothing and then would file complaints and sue when the job was completed.

Well, uhm, that's a given.
Last time I gave a unsigned proposal to have 4 small yew bushes removed, I wrote it for something like 1600. I was there 3 minutes, spoke about 4 words.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Maryland is the same way. I had a buddy who owned a home improvement business. Did additions and decks. He finally refused to do any work for people from India. They wanted everything for nothing and then would file complaints and sue when the job was completed.

Yeah the india problem hits me all to often to, I think I could write a pretty good booklet on it. But I still look at there jobs and treat it like they are like any client. But so so so often, they are trouble.

 

[RVALUE]

Yeah the india problem hits me all to often to, I think I could write a pretty good booklet on it. But I still look at there jobs and treat it like they are like any client. But so so so often, they are trouble.

Trade you, sight unseen.

 

[RVALUE]

Yeah the india problem hits me all to often to, I think I could write a pretty good booklet on it. But I still look at there jobs and treat it like they are like any client. But so so so often, they are trouble.

Mine wouldn't be a booklet, but a series. Then the tree huggers would protest outside, for wasting so much paper.

 

[RVALUE]

PS some of mine are Paikistani. I'll bet you could cross reference to the religion and find a common thread.

PSS Its even some americans. One peoples I haven't had problems with are Australians.

 

[Rudedog]

PS some of mine are Paikistani. I'll bet you could cross reference to the religion and find a common thread.

Actually they are related by region. Indians are predominately Hindi and the Pakistanis are the people from India that were Muslim and driven out of the country by that great peace lover Ghandi. They are hard bargainers which is a cliche for they will screw anybody for a buck.

 

[Toddppm]

How did a 4" drain pipe stop a whole project?

 

[treeclimber101]

Yes, one reason I don't make them sign is because then I would be liable to the contract just as well... whatever that means.

Thats a good point Dan that contract binds both parties involved , and if I decide I don't wanna do work for your :censored:ing arse than we part ways , and I don't take deposits either so If you nag me more than twice were done that way too..Oh I saved up that 8 grand and if your serious I'll come get that truck ...

 

[treemandan]

Thats a good point Dan that contract binds both parties involved , and if I decide I don't wanna do work for your :censored:ing arse than we part ways , and I don't take deposits either so If you nag me more than twice were done that way too..Oh I saved up that 8 grand and if your serious I'll come get that truck ...

Yeah, I guess if you want to get all " lawsuit" with this tree work bullcrap then I am just gonna go home, get drunk and log onto Arboristsite.com.
But , hey, if you have the means to go after big contracts help yerself. I just work for the commoner and that is tough enough. Most people are very understanding and happy with me and I am thankful for that.

 

[lxt]

I missed a point, did they not pay?

Yes they paid & were happy!! they even told this to the judge!

The 4" drain pipe ran the full length of the driveway 100ft worth, this main line had 3 branch offs going to house & garage downspouts, this drain line was directly under where the homeowners wanted the vers lok wall to be built.

I was not informed of the line & to remove it/move it was not an option cause the home owners couldnt afford to do that, as a matter of fact the home owners couldnt afford any of my suggested build methods which were right outta the mfg`s guidlines, they got in over their heads without the ability to take care of any unforeseen problems!!

I thought about walking away...BUT, I was in the middle of the job!!!! if these homeowners are of the mind to sue me for what they asked/told me to do....can you imagine walking away & leaving their yard in shambles, block in their driveway making it in-accesible....breach of contract, which would probably count cause it would be in the home owners favor then!!

My thoughts were on safety!! I walk away then who`s responsible should someone get hurt "vicarious liability" believe thats the term??? what sucks is I was thinking.....whats the law say? well nothing pertaining to a wall under 48" high....basically you can build it any way you want, which if I chose not to build & walked away...then the judge would be like:

"are they paying you to do what they want, if so...then build the wall" its a catch 22 & a no win for contractors.......I go see the Atty on the 8th & hopefully he has some good to say...will keep ya posted!!


LXT..................

 

[jefflovstrom]

No signature, no work!
Jeff

 

[RVALUE]

Yes they paid & were happy!! they even told this to the judge!

The 4" drain pipe ran the full length of the driveway 100ft worth, this main line had 3 branch offs going to house & garage downspouts, this drain line was directly under where the homeowners wanted the vers lok wall to be built.

I was not informed of the line & to remove it/move it was not an option cause the home owners couldnt afford to do that, as a matter of fact the home owners couldnt afford any of my suggested build methods which were right outta the mfg`s guidlines, they got in over their heads without the ability to take care of any unforeseen problems!!

I thought about walking away...BUT, I was in the middle of the job!!!! if these homeowners are of the mind to sue me for what they asked/told me to do....can you imagine walking away & leaving their yard in shambles, block in their driveway making it in-accesible....breach of contract, which would probably count cause it would be in the home owners favor then!!

My thoughts were on safety!! I walk away then who`s responsible should someone get hurt "vicarious liability" believe thats the term??? what sucks is I was thinking.....whats the law say? well nothing pertaining to a wall under 48" high....basically you can build it any way you want, which if I chose not to build & walked away...then the judge would be like:

"are they paying you to do what they want, if so...then build the wall" its a catch 22 & a no win for contractors.......I go see the Atty on the 8th & hopefully he has some good to say...will keep ya posted!!


LXT..................

Now I see more clearly. Too bad. Got a few similar, although lately I've upgraded the work at my expense, to cover myself. Not a good situation. Costly. But so is court, I suppose.