Controversial Dealings

[trimmmed]

I'll pick this up from the other thread as I do have an opinion on it and by posting it in the closed thread, nobody will get to respond and I would encourage responses. Even tho I might close this one anyway....just didn't want to post and not have anyone be able to tell me I'm wrong.

Bad seller thread should be a sticky . . .

Probably wouldn't work and I think we don't really need to devote space to sales problems.

On the other hand, I don't think these #####fests should be stifled either. Head in the sand crap does nothing to further protect future buyers from an unscrupulous seller. Here we have knowlege and have done nothing to warn the unsuspecting.....not cool imo.
Over the many years I have been here and considering all the dealings and transactions that take place, there is only a miniscule percentage of deals gone bad and really very few "fiasco" threads.
I believe in letting them run until the bad blood is out, deleting them early simply spawns more posts or it drags other conversations/threads down when the crap eventually breaks out there.

I have gotten involved in a few and know at least two guys that got their saws back off the top of my head because of the thread on AS. I also know that in the past, when sponsors, even moderators were screwing people, once a little daylight was shed on those situations, all of a sudden the floodgates opened with guys who also didn't get their stuff or didn't get what they bargained for. Then of course, AS gets blamed for non disclosure or subsidizing the behavior, which is clearly not happening. I'd rather see it out in the open, the only thing I require to let the thread stand is a case, no innuendo, not veiled threats, make your case or no thread. Not saying the casemaker is right automatically, but I do think this should be all above board and let the members decipher for themselves.
As to the peanut gallery, the hens, the dogpilers............it is what it is, nothing more or less and I think most guys here can get thru the bs with no problems.

IMO, history has certainly showed that these threads can be an effective problem solver, maybe not pleasant or fun or maybe too much fun, lol whatever. ask the guys who got their money or saws back, ask the guys who got screwed.

Your honor should (and mostly does) be paramount in your dealings here with fellow site members. Unfortunately, not always the case.......but why pretend it didn't happen by sweeping it under the rug? At what point do you make it public? How many guys get screwed before you allow disclosure??

Btw............most guys here that I have had the pleasure of dealing with ROCK!

 

[sachsmo]

Like Wampum said in closing the other thread,

"buyer beware, seller beware"

There are some people that will never be happy, and probably some predatory selling I dunno.

I know from some of the crap that's been posted, you are better off to deal with everyone upfront. Ask lots of questions, and cover your own back side.

 

[mattinky]

I'm also a member on a model airplane forum (one of my other hobbies) They were having the same problems there with deals going bad... which, in turn, started flame wars and arguments. What they did was start a "good trader" thread, if you have a good transaction with another member you post it there. No, it doesn't weed out the dishonest traders but it gives you confidence to do business with the good traders. I sell and trade a few things here and I want everyone to know if you ever have a problem with a transaction with me - tell me - I'll make it good!

Just a thought...

 

[sawinredneck]

I was thinking back in the other thread where you said many of these problems had been resolved. I remember I bought a saw from a less than scrupulous member here and you specifically made sure I had received it before he was banned. I remember all the hard work MANY put in trying to get saws back to owners from Dean. I also remember being quiet with my dealings with Ben until it became known there was a bigger problem! Then the manual situation, many tried, many worked and in the end, I think everybody lost on that deal.
Maybe a "Cheers and Jeers" section? One area for bad dealings, the other for good. Have a dealing with someone, good or bad, you make ONE post about the transaction. You start reading several bad ones, you don't deal with them.
But that still doesn't resolve the issue of someone flaking out like manual did, he'd been well respected up to that point, same as Dean.
I agree, sweeping it under the carpet just creates animosity and dis-trust in lots of ways. Maybe the thread can be locked to just the two parties and we could watch it from the sidelines? I've been guilty as anybody for jumping on a few bandwagons, a system like that would let them fight it out without the added crap we in the peanut gallery like to add!

 

[WKEND LUMBERJAK]

I was thinking back in the other thread where you said many of these problems had been resolved. I remember I bought a saw from a less than scrupulous member here and you specifically made sure I had received it before he was banned. I remember all the hard work MANY put in trying to get saws back to owners from Dean. I also remember being quiet with my dealings with Ben until it became known there was a bigger problem! Then the manual situation, many tried, many worked and in the end, I think everybody lost on that deal.
Maybe a "Cheers and Jeers" section? One area for bad dealings, the other for good. Have a dealing with someone, good or bad, you make ONE post about the transaction. You start reading several bad ones, you don't deal with them.
But that still doesn't resolve the issue of someone flaking out like manual did, he'd been well respected up to that point, same as Dean.
I agree, sweeping it under the carpet just creates animosity and dis-trust in lots of ways. Maybe the thread can be locked to just the two parties and we could watch it from the sidelines? I've been guilty as anybody for jumping on a few bandwagons, a system like that would let them fight it out without the added crap we in the peanut gallery like to add!

Letting the 2 party's hash it out is agood Idea. Yes the peanut gallery cluters up things in a hurry.

 

[Mastermind]

Great post Trimmed.

I've had many, many dealings with members here and have NEVER had any problems.....EVER.

There are a couple of people that I will not deal with though, because of a heads up from someone I trust. The ##### threads are very useful as well. Most of the time I can read through these threads and see people's true nature. That's a very valuable asset. :msp_thumbup:

 

[Mastermind]

Letting the 2 party's hash it out is agood Idea. Yes the peanut gallery cluters up things in a hurry.

But it's in the peanut gallery that we get to see a fellers true nature.

 

[hanniedog]

How long after a item has been shipped do you start questioning where it is? Had a saw shipped (USPS) to me a bit over 2 wks ago from the Mass area, had the hurricane plus a holiday.

 

[sunfish]

I've been a member on Blade Forums for almost 10 years. There is a ton of stuff bought, sold and traded there. They have a sub-forum called 'The Good Bad and Ugly'.

Any problem any member has with another member goes there. Also any good transaction, or deed can be posted there and it works very well.

Looks like we need something like that here.

 

[komatsuvarna]

I've been a member on Blade Forums for almost 10 years. There is a ton of stuff bought, sold and traded there. They have a sub-forum called 'The Good Bad and Ugly'.

Any problem any member has with another member goes there. Also any good transaction, or deed can be posted there and it works very well.

Looks like we need something like that here.

Yep, another forum I look at some has a sub forum called ''The Cage''. It gets pretty ugly in there too!

 

[sunfish]

Yep, another forum I look at some has a sub forum called ''The Cage''. It gets pretty ugly in there too!

Aside from it usually gettin worked out, it can very entertaining.

 

[jus2fat]

How long after a item has been shipped do you start questioning where it is? Had a saw shipped (USPS) to me a bit over 2 wks ago from the Mass area, had the hurricane plus a holiday.

With USPS Delivery Confirmation number you should know where your saw (package) is approximately all the time. They are very cheap...about 80¢...if I remember right.
Have # - go to USPS - track and confirm - type in # - shows where item last scanned.
Hope this helps...

J2F

 

[trimmmed]

With USPS Delivery Confirmation number you should know where you saw (package) is approximately all the time. They are very cheap...about 80¢...if I remember right.
Hope this helps...

J2F

Doesn't always work. I've had many items sent and recieved that simply showed an origination scan and the final delivery, nothing in between. In fact I just sent some coins to Vermont and the last scan I had was on 9/1 then nothing until 9/7 at which point it showed it was delivered on 9/2.

 

[hanniedog]

I used tracking on the saw that I shipped to Mass. All they could tell was when it arrived at it destination in Mass. Nothing like UPS where you know exactly where the item is in system.

 

[trimmmed]

I was thinking back in the other thread where you said many of these problems had been resolved. I remember I bought a saw from a less than scrupulous member here and you specifically made sure I had received it before he was banned. I remember all the hard work MANY put in trying to get saws back to owners from Dean. I also remember being quiet with my dealings with Ben until it became known there was a bigger problem! Then the manual situation, many tried, many worked and in the end, I think everybody lost on that deal.
Maybe a "Cheers and Jeers" section? One area for bad dealings, the other for good. Have a dealing with someone, good or bad, you make ONE post about the transaction. You start reading several bad ones, you don't deal with them.
But that still doesn't resolve the issue of someone flaking out like manual did, he'd been well respected up to that point, same as Dean.
I agree, sweeping it under the carpet just creates animosity and dis-trust in lots of ways. Maybe the thread can be locked to just the two parties and we could watch it from the sidelines? I've been guilty as anybody for jumping on a few bandwagons, a system like that would let them fight it out without the added crap we in the peanut gallery like to add!

Ok, forgot about that, now we are up to three! Actually there is more that got their stuff back I just can't recall all of them. At least one guy got his stuff back from manual I know for sure and one good guy got shafted bad.

 

[Fish]

Never really advocated sweeping it under the rug, but the noose party thing is kind of bad.
If the other party doesn't respond, that means he is guilty? Kind of like a witch hunt.

If he does, then the mob splits and there is a small civil war?

Maybe if the thing is isolated to the parties involved, and a moderator?

The moderator asks pertinant questions, and maybe introduce other past bad dealings, and keep
all of the childish bull to a minimum.

Actually, it could be relocated to an actual and potentially very popular sub-forum, kind of a
"People's Court", heck I would even love to be the judge on that one.

I always insist on hearing both sides before forming an opinion.

Slamm could be the district attorney.

Or I could be the court appointed defending attorney, if the accused doesn't want to actively
participate.

When the thread winds down, the members could be the jury, and vote in a poll.

Of course any punitive damage could only be limited to the respect of the forum members here,
unless both parties agreed to abide by the decision of the members.

Something like that might be interesting.

 

[jus2fat]

Doesn't always work. I've had many items sent and recieved that simply showed an origination scan and the final delivery, nothing in between. In fact I just sent some coins to Vermont and the last scan I had was on 9/1 then nothing until 9/7 at which point it showed it was delivered on 9/2.

I agree...doesn't always work..!!

I was a monitor over a similar system and found the same re-occurring problems...
1) People did not even do the scan...just pushed it on.
2) Next scanner person can't scan their location as the previous scanner didn't do theirs.
3) People thought they had scanned but it didn't "take" the scan.
4) Battery dead on scanner - and operator too lazy to go get replacement battery.
5) Only the delivery scanner can do the final scan which overrides the "lost scans"

So basically it's not so much a system problem but rather an operator mistake problem.
Sorry...but just thought folks that send thru USPS should know WHY it doesn't always work

And I need to add...that this is the Short List..!!!

J2F

 

[spacemule]

Buying things sight unseen online has always been and always will be buyer beware. It is not the place of the online community to get involved in transactions for which they had no part and make threats, form lynch mobs, and get riled up simply because he said she said stuff is on there. I would have no problem if a thread is limited to the parties involved, with both sides presenting their case, and people can take it or leave it as they see fit.

What I do have a problem with is drama queens coming in screaming bloody murder and getting a ####storm started for something that may or may not be true. Simply put, there's no need for it. I've seen way too many cases where the #### storm squealer is simply trying to get something for nothing, having buyers remorse, or simply likes to feel like a victim. Bottom line, it's not mine nor anyone else's business who did what to whom, and I don't care what kind of reputation someone has, good or bad, it's MY responsibility to properly vet any transactions before money changes hands. If I don't do that, I have no one to blaim but myself. If I have a legal claim, it is not the general public's place to prosecute my claim.

So yeah trimmed, I think you're dead wrong.

 

[trimmmed]

Buying things sight unseen online has always been and always will be buyer beware. It is not the place of the online community to get involved in transactions for which they had no part and make threats, form lynch mobs, and get riled up simply because he said she said stuff is on there. I would have no problem if a thread is limited to the parties involved, with both sides presenting their case, and people can take it or leave it as they see fit.

What I do have a problem with is drama queens coming in screaming bloody murder and getting a ####storm started for something that may or may not be true. Simply put, there's no need for it. I've seen way too many cases where the #### storm squealer is simply trying to get something for nothing, having buyers remorse, or simply likes to feel like a victim. Bottom line, it's not mine nor anyone else's business who did what to whom, and I don't care what kind of reputation someone has, good or bad, it's MY responsibility to properly vet any transactions before money changes hands. If I don't do that, I have no one to blaim but myself. If I have a legal claim, it is not the general public's place to prosecute my claim.

So yeah trimmed, I think you're dead wrong.

Thanks space, that just validates it all the more for me.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

Holy ####!
Space said something productive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I agree 100%.