Do loggers really cut "200 trees/day"?

[softdown]

Watched a show with two experienced Oregon loggers discussing the industry and their own experiences. One of them did not want his son to follow in his foot steps. He felt the profession was too dangerous and cited the "many close calls" he had seen. That is all very easy to believe.

The show went on to claim that this logger cuts up to 200 trees a day. I have two thoughts about that:
1) It would be extremely dangerous to cut that speed.
2) I find that number hard to believe. This was Oregon logging, the trees tend to be of substantive size.

As for me I feel more like ~30 big cut trees is a solid day. Though nowhere close to being a professional logger. If I was expected to cut more than ~50 trees/day I would quickly walk away. I feel like such high speed cutting is asking for a major disaster. How is one going to deal with widow makers etc. with no inspection whatsoever?

 

[northmanlogging]

200 is a bit of a stretch, unless you're talking mechanized.

realistically if your just dumping, no limbing or bucking, about 50 in 6 hours, maybe more if your in smaller timber.

 

[northmanlogging]

Also, your probably watching Haxmen, in which case take everything you see on that show through a lens of made for tv drama.

 

[Westboastfaller]

They may have a few veins of sizable wood but the bulk of the cutting is 2nd & 3rd growth Fir. Quite small and few snags. Most days they would have no processing and 97 to 99 out of every 100 will go down the hill without consideration for a wedge. Very little brush to brush out.
It's just side hill, base-to-base, undercut,back-cut.

I could probably do that job?
They do the same wood..day after day.
a lot of trees that they market for private owners and such are often to small to be in my tree count.

Cut Mountain Pine that were 7 to 11" and three of us hit 90 trees per gas tank in big beetle sites. Wasn't big sites or small trees all the time but everything under 6" stumps.
We would compete with each other.
Not the safest. If it still hadn't fallen to the east then we would leave them standing until you past back on the back row keeping all in lay.

200 trees?
Say there were all a 20" average then 3 minute trees would get you 120 trees in 6 hours. 2 minute trees 180 per day. Doesn't see too hard.

 

[catbuster]

I mean… I’ve seen some guys & gals on the big bike handled clearing saws slash at least that many saplings in a day.

But real trees that are require a not kid-sized chainsaw? That’s 33 trees an hour by the standard west coast faller day and 25 by the rest of the world. No freakin’ way. Even if you were opened up and just dumping, the saw can’t cut fast enough, and then there’s movement between trees and at least looking up for a quick assessment. And the saw needs gas & oil, air filter knockouts, chain sharpening or swaps, and on and on.

The best I ever did in an hour hand falling was 21-dumping a mix of straight, burned ~18” evergreens with a fast saw, my 395 with a square chain. I felt like I was going lightning fast and taking chances at that pace-and other than being dead, you have a better view of standing hulks post crown fire for hazards than live trees. My best day was 98. That day I didn’t have any obstacles and we were cleaning up fire kill. That’s still a tree every 4 minutes-too damn fast to do a good size up and cut. I’m not a great faller by any means, but an average day for me just tipping straight evergreen trees is probably ~50-60. Limbing & blocking to length drops everything by half and oversize drops that number to 15-20-based in six hours working. It is what it is, that dude is full of it.

 

[softdown]

You are certainly an eloquent poster, thanks for that. You sort of brought up the point that few of us manage much more than "several hours" of serious work/day. I doubt that I spend more than 33% of my time actually felling trees when felling trees. Wedge work, gas, oil, chain tightening, drink of water, take a leak, pet the dog, take a break, check the phone, assessment, etc., etc., etc.

Then we have a tendency to compare a 20 pound tree to a 2000 pound tree. Still catch myself doing that. Perhaps we ought to measure how many inches are cut?

 

[catbuster]

You are certainly an eloquent poster, thanks for that. You sort of brought up the point that few of us manage much more than "several hours" of serious work/day. I doubt that I spend more than 33% of my time actually felling trees when felling trees. Wedge work, gas, oil, chain tightening, drink of water, take a leak, pet the dog, take a break, check the phone, assessment, etc., etc., etc.

Then we have a tendency to compare a 20 pound tree to a 2000 pound tree. Still catch myself doing that. Perhaps we ought to measure how many inches are cut?

It’s not a rare thing for fallers to be paid by the board foot here in the US and by the cubic meter in parts of the world while doing piece work. With smaller trees hourly may be a better way to go, especially on pre commercial thinning. It just depends on what you’re cutting.

The last couple of jobs I had cut where in garbage wood and I paid hourly-$50 for someone supplying their own equipment. If you’re in decent wood, it’s not rare to gross $330-350 per day paid per board foot. Helicopter outfits will do even better, but there are reasons for that, mostly the remoteness of where you’re working and the difficult terrain. I mean, let’s face it-if nobody will put a yarder on the ground, it’s probably not fun to walk around, much less work in.

There are a ton of variables in faller pay, and production. My personal preference is to be paid by the hour. It’s easy to bill, there’s no question or argument to be had of quantity or scaling, and if I have a bad day I still get paid wages-with the understanding I’ll make an effort to make up for the bad day. Falling per board foot can get somebody into trouble pushing pace, being that they get tunnel vision on production. High production is good and all, but going home in the same shape you got to the site is more important.

I appreciate the kind words about seeing the bigger picture. I think a lot of people forget about the “ancillary” activities that go alongside the main focus of every task. That was a hard lesson learned at a very young age in an industry that is unforgiving to forgetting the ancillary parts of project or task management.

 

[NorthernMaverick]

I was dropping poplar this afternoon. 12 trees in 2.5 hours, 3 needed mild wedging, keeping them in a general lay direction, and brushing them out / topping them. Trees were 8" - 18" on the stump. Saw (562) was sharp when I started, and I stopped to top fuel / oil once. That's honest cutting, sitting down, drinking water, clearing junk around the base, looking for junk up top, not being lazy, just being able to walk out on your own two feet when your done. 3 times that amount in a day and I would say I had a great day, and I don't see myself ever going over 50 trees per day, unless were talking pine in rows, 8" and under. Whoever can cut 200 sawlog size trees in a day with a handheld powersaw is either full of b******t or he's superman.

 

[northmanlogging]

Going off what I normally cut, just to give my math some substance, average tree takes me about 5 minutes to put on the ground, without wedging, but doing it safely.
I get about 45 minutes to the tank of fuel, and will take a few minutes to refuel me and the saw
so I figure an average of 7 minutes to the tree for good marketable timber.
6 hour day is 360 minutes 360/7=51.47
Anybody that can do 4x that in timber worth hand falling... is probably on meth.

 

[ArtB]

50 years ago when young and energetic clearing my own land I thought it was a good 10 hour day to fell 5 or 6 ea 24" DF, but that included limbing, bucking, and then dragging 200 ft plus stacking with an old D2.

 

[slowp]

Maybe "they" consider precommercial thinning to be logging? But back in the dark ages, we didn't count trees, we counted acres.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Maybe "they" consider precommercial thinning to be logging? But back in the dark ages, we didn't count trees, we counted acres.

Still do. 1/2 acre was what they like to see in the white-wood in Alaska and BC in the Hemlock & balsam.(Hem-bal) Half an American football field or .2 Ha (40×50 metres)
If any Faller gets paid production in coast falling in BC then that would be by area and not volume.
They will put you in the nicest-biggest trees you ever seen where you can reach back and grab your gas. Only people that will do that are the people that nobody wants anymore.

 

[slowp]

One of the expert fallers will say that today's fallers have it more dangerous because they cut more trees and therefore spend more time at the base of a tree, which is the danger spot.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Going off what I normally cut, just to give my math some substance, average tree takes me about 5 minutes to put on the ground, without wedging, but doing it safely.
I get about 45 minutes to the tank of fuel, and will take a few minutes to refuel me and the saw
so I figure an average of 7 minutes to the tree for good marketable timber.
6 hour day is 360 minutes 360/7=51.47
Anybody that can do 4x that in timber worth hand falling... is probably on meth.

No dia average was said by the OP.
Anyway I gave a 20" trees example but I doubt it would be that on average.
I have seen Hand Fallers clear cutting little gang poles in Oregon lately.

2 minute trees at 20" gets you on the door step at 180 trees.

I came out with 436 sq ft for 200 trees. 2.18 sq ft per face area. In
proportion to volume I minused hinge and add angle cut with slope % increase. Estamated 554 sq ft per 200 trees. A 36" tree is 7 cu ft.
Applying the same formulas then it increased to 9 sq ft per free.

554 ÷9= 61.5 trees per day felled only.

61 trees at 36"

 

[Westboastfaller]

One of the expert fallers will say that today's fallers have it more dangerous because they cut more trees and therefore spend more time at the base of a tree, which is the danger spot.

The more the trees the more the assessments the more chances to miss. On going action, too. The better ground gets cut first as well.
I know Fallers that said they would fell and buck one tree and fall the second one and that was the day.

 

[northmanlogging]

No dia average was said by the OP.
Anyway I gave a 20" trees example but I doubt it would be that on average.
I have seen Hand Fallers clear cutting little gang poles in Oregon lately.

2 minute trees at 20" gets you on the door step at 180 trees.

I came out with 436 sq ft for 200 trees. 2.18 sq ft per face area. In
proportion to volume I minused hinge and add angle cut with slope % increase. Estamated 554 sq ft per 200 trees. A 36" tree is 7 cu ft.
Applying the same formulas then it increased to 9 sq ft per free.

554 ÷9= 61.5 trees per day felled only.

61 trees at 36"

2 min on a 20" tree? Maybe? (i.e. big maybe) with a fast saw and a fresh chain, but that doesn't account for walking to it, or assessment of any type, it also assumes you are cutting literally non stop for 6 hours.

Granted if they are only 20" they are probably fairly thick, and hopefully you wouldn't need to wedge to many over, but its still going to be an ass load of work to hit 70 in a day. Especially since this is prime buncher sized wood, and if its being hand fell, then its probably on cow faced slopes.

 

[softdown]

50 years ago when young and energetic clearing my own land I thought it was a good 10 hour day to fell 5 or 6 ea 24" DF, but that included limbing, bucking, and then dragging 200 ft plus stacking with an old D2.

Wait, I thought bucking and limbing was the same thing. I prefer the word limbing since we are cutting limbs. No idea where the word bucking came from.

 

[lone wolf]

Wait, I thought bucking and limbing was the same thing. I prefer the word limbing since we are cutting limbs. No idea where the word bucking came from.

Bucking is cutting logs.

 

[softdown]

2 min on a 20" tree? Maybe? (i.e. big maybe) with a fast saw and a fresh chain, but that doesn't account for walking to it, or assessment of any type, it also assumes you are cutting literally non stop for 6 hours.

Granted if they are only 20" they are probably fairly thick, and hopefully you wouldn't need to wedge to many over, but its still going to be an ass load of work to hit 70 in a day. Especially since this is prime buncher sized wood, and if its being hand fell, then its probably on cow faced slopes.

About 1/2 of my trees go over easy. I spend 80% of my time with the other 1/2 that find some way to challenge me.

I just can't see falling non stop. I can limb a few trees without stopping but feel like assessing things is appropriate after falling a big one. But I'm no faller. My instincts give me all kinds of warning flags to non stop falling with no assessments. I've had a tree on the foot and notice the dozens of kind of close calls - my saw gets within inches of me when limbing. That is why I like a small, light limbing saw - I limb at an extremely rapid rate. Sometimes an entire tree in a couple minutes if the limbs are right. That may not be wise but it is how I roll. Falling is an entirely different realm for me - that raises all kinds of red flags.

Falling can easily kill me. Limbing could as well but a cut is far more likely.

 

[lone wolf]

About 1/2 of my trees go over easy. I spend 80% of my time with the other 1/2 that find some way to challenge me.

I just can't see falling non stop. I can limb a few trees without stopping but feel like assessing things is appropriate after falling a big one. But I'm no faller. My instincts give me all kinds of warning flags to non stop falling with no assessments. I've had a tree on the foot and notice the dozens of kind of close calls - my saw gets within inches of me when limbing. That is why I like a small, light limbing saw - I limb at an extremely rapid rate. Sometimes an entire tree in a couple minutes if the limbs are right. That may not be wise but it is how I roll. Falling is an entirely different realm for me - that raises all kinds of red flags.

Falling can easily kill me. Limbing could as well but a cut is far more likely.

Lots of dangers ! Broken pieces above , Barber chairing etc.