Do loggers really cut "200 trees/day"?

[softdown]

Lots of dangers ! Broken pieces above , Barber chairing etc.

I just removed a widow maker that was resting on someones roof. Made $300/hour and felt like they got a deal. I used the bucket truck for the roof area and also used it to pull over the tree after I cut through ~ 75% of the base. A 15,000 lb dually in 4WD low is pretty good at yanking. This was mountainous terrain.

Widow maker on the roof is pretty interesting. Operation was a bit "exciting".

Every day with a chain saw sees dozens of "possible threats" Reasons that logging is always #1. Pressure to operate at high speed will assure that it keeps that position.

 

[softdown]

Bucking is cutting logs.

My memory varies from perfect to dogshit. Don't know how I forgot that.

 

[slowp]

Uh, bucking and limbing on a steep slope are also inherently dangerous. This is why one starts their strip from the bottom of a unit, and works up. When I checked bucking practices, I made sure to walk around the unit and then across the top of the recent cut. Often I'd hear a roll roll roll and see a log start others going down the hill. High stumps are not very effective on a steep slope. Logs roll. That was in clearcuts, but partial cuts have moving logs also.

Falling starts from the bottom, yarding from the top, except in downhill yarding and then those guys better be on their toes. I never figured out how they downhilled safely on some of the clearcuts.

 

[slowp]

Also, was watching two guys and a dad take about 20 minutes to fall a small tree. Dad was on the road with coffee cup in hand, he's a former faller and really knows his stuff, son is a good faller, other guy was learning. They were working the tree around, against the lean and it was a learning experience. Dad was yelling about wedging, son was rolling his eyes, and the learning guy was trying to make it work. The tree was inclined to hit the road, they listened to dad, and the tree went in the direction they wanted. Can't think of what they called the cut, but it worked.

 

[rwoods]

Not a pro and certainly not agreeing with any claim that a logger falls and bucks 200 trees a day for logs, but the more experience you have the quicker you can assess a given situation.

Also not saying folks should unnecessarily speed up, however, from the videos posted from time to time there are folks that may have textbook perfect falling cuts but spend so much time at a stump that another competent faller would have 2 or 3 on the ground in the same amount of time. Usually a lot of leaning over the saw and around a partially cut stem to inspect progress that in my opinion is either unnecessary or should be done by stepping back and around the stem. Bore cut falling seems to attribute to this. With experience, one should have a good feel for where the bar is in relation to the hinge regardless of your falling methodology.
Ron

 

[northmanlogging]

Not a pro and certainly not agreeing with any claim that a logger falls and bucks 200 trees a day for logs, but the more experience you have the quicker you can assess a given situation.

Also not saying folks should unnecessarily speed up, however, from the videos posted from time to time there are folks that may have textbook perfect falling cuts but spend so much time at a stump that another competent faller would have 2 or 3 on the ground in the same amount of time. Usually a lot of leaning over the saw and around a partially cut stem to inspect progress that in my opinion is either unnecessary or should be done by stepping back and around the stem. Bore cut falling seems to attribute to this. With experience, one should have a good feel for where the bar is in relation to the hinge regardless of your falling methodology.
Ron

I do find it silly when the bar is long enough to constantly be peeking at the off side, however, on bigger trees or when the bar just isn't enough, I end up cutting by brail a lot, sure its easy enough to walk over to the off side and nip the corner, but thats also wasted motion, its easier to peek over and check progress...

As for limbing, it can be just as dangerous as falling, pretty much every time i've been around someone thats gotten cut by a saw, its from limbing and generally with a saw that is small, more often then not cowboy homeowners that insist on "helping" and "proving" they are just as fast with a small saw.

They are only faster because they are in my ******* way...

the benefit of using a longer bar for limbing is that the bar will more likely hit dirt before hitting your foot, benefit of using the bigger power head is powering through bigger limbs like butter, sure its heavier, but it not that bad after a couple days, and there are several techniques that take advantage of the longer bar, least of all the ability to walk the top of a log and still hit the limbs on the side without blowing a disk, or fighting through all the slash you just created or walking a log 10' in the air... not to mention you don't have to hike back and grab a second saw to buck or fall with, you just have the one saw and in the darkness it binds them... etc...

Anyway, i've had this conversation with a whole slew of folks that "knew more then I ever will" one of them eventually ended up in litigation, he was that convinced I didn't know what I was doing.... (he refused to pay me, despite coming in a month early, and $3000 under budget... so... yeah..) one of his claims was that I would of been faster and less work to use a top handle saw to limb 4' dia cedar, one of these guys got real feckin stoned, charged out in front of me and proceeded to nearly cut his foot off with his little ms 171... He at least stopped getting in the way after that.

 

[rwoods]

I do find it silly when the bar is long enough to constantly be peeking at the off side, however, on bigger trees or when the bar just isn't enough, I end up cutting by brail a lot, sure its easy enough to walk over to the off side and nip the corner, but thats also wasted motion, its easier to peek over and check progress...

No problem with the above. I do the same. But I try to step back on those stems that I think might start moving. Some of the dead or rotten stuff I cut you never know when it is going to let go.

Ron

 

[slowp]

Also, another safety point. Cut your limbs so there is nothing poking up--no stobs/pig ears. Flush cut. Saw a guy who didn't bring his caulks slip and land flat on his back on the log. He thanked his son for limbing the log properly. Although his back was sore, there were no punctures. The same goes for stumps. Cut any stump pull off. Eliminate as many hazards as you can, which might take some extra time.

 

[northmanlogging]

No problem with the above. I do the same. But I try to step back on those stems that I think might start moving. Some of the dead or rotten stuff I cut you never know when it is going to let go.

Ron

oh for sure lol, snag falling is a whole nother set of issues, anything can and will happen, so as much distance as you can keep the better.

Also, another safety point. Cut your limbs so there is nothing poking up--no stobs/pig ears. Flush cut. Saw a guy who didn't bring his caulks slip and land flat on his back on the log. He thanked his son for limbing the log properly. Although his back was sore, there were no punctures. The same goes for stumps. Cut any stump pull off. Eliminate as many hazards as you can, which might take some extra time.

couple weeks ago when I got clobbered by that limb, I was looking down at a big stob, I was planning on werking ahead of it, but I stopped to cut it flush... when I finished and was plotting my next steps is when I got hit, threw me right on top of where that big stop was... probably would of pierced a lung or at the very least broke a couple ribs... again...

 

[Jacob J.]

On straight-falling jobs (where you're dumping stems straight down the hill and leaving the butts up), it's pretty common for an experienced faller to get 2-300 stems/day.

I've personally witnessed guys that can get 400 in a day. I've seen guys that can fall a softwood that's 16-18" on the stump in 45-50 seconds.

 

[Piotr Pakuła]

It depends how many of them are there ;-)

 

[northmanlogging]

On straight-falling jobs (where you're dumping stems straight down the hill and leaving the butts up), it's pretty common for an experienced faller to get 2-300 stems/day.

I've personally witnessed guys that can get 400 in a day. I've seen guys that can fall a softwood that's 16-18" on the stump in 45-50 seconds.

I counted 32 in about 26 min, which admittedly is kicking some ass. or 360 a day, which doesn't sound sustainable.

that said, at least 1/3 where dead standing, small or otherwise unmarketable stuff I wouldn't even consider counting in a day of falling.
And a further at least 4 where already crippled before dude started filming, which brings us down to a more reasonable 16 marketable trees in 26 minutes or 96 per day. less still if you consider fueling etc.

Also I might add that only about 5 of them were what would be considered saw logs around here, the rest was pulp wood.

not trying to be nit picky or anything but making claims of 200-400 trees a day by claiming the dead snags and huckleberry bushes is pretty douchey.

Annnnd while pushing trees is sometimes needed, Making a habit out of leaving 4-5 standing while working up 2-3 other trees, then coming back to get the ones you prepped... maybe... is a pretty ****ing good way to get dead.

 

[rwoods]

My count was a little higher - 36 stems (snag and trash included) in 25 minutes of saw running.

Before most of the posts, I wrote a long post about the OP didn't give (and probably didn't have) a proper context for the 200 trees a day statement. I included a comment about clear cutting - but didn't post as the lack of context was oblivious. I don't see anyone here claiming to hand fall 200 20" trees and buck them into logs in a day.

Ron

 

[softdown]

So if I gain timber rights I can hire some loggers here and count on at least 200 18" trees/day. Cool. I'm off to negotiate some timber rights.

 

[northmanlogging]

So if I gain timber rights I can hire some loggers here and count on at least 200 18" trees/day. Cool. I'm off to negotiate some timber rights.

the problem with reading...

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. either way lemme know how that works out for ya

 

[Westboastfaller]

All you need know to do is put up the
raw-haw and count your return.

That was to the OP's last post but I'll leave that open

 

[Jacob J.]

not trying to be nit picky or anything but making claims of 200-400 trees a day by claiming the dead snags and huckleberry bushes is pretty douchey.

Annnnd while pushing trees is sometimes needed, Making a habit out of leaving 4-5 standing while working up 2-3 other trees, then coming back to get the ones you prepped... maybe... is a pretty ****ing good way to get dead.

It's not my video but the individual who posted the video has been cutting for many years now, so I think he's got a good handle on what he's doing. I'm not aware of any of the current pro guys who can get 2-300 stems per day counting the snags or huckleberry. Have you ever worked up a large clear cut straight-falling job on a high lead show? If not, I can certainly put you in contact with some guys who are doing that work, and you can go see it for yourself.

My count was a little higher - 36 stems (snag and trash included) in 25 minutes of saw running.

Before most of the posts, I wrote a long post about the OP didn't give (and probably didn't have) a proper context for the 200 trees a day statement. I included a comment about clear cutting - but didn't post as the lack of context was oblivious. I don't see anyone here claiming to hand fall 200 20" trees and buck them into logs in a day.

Ron

It's situation dependent - a straight-falling gig involves very little manufacture in the brush, and that's where the stem count comes into play. On a cable-yard commercial thinning job where the timber is decent, and the logger needs at least one long run taken off, most guys here are averaging 65-80 stems/day. Older growth timber where most of the manufacture is done in the brush will drive the stem count much lower.

Really though, it's not about stem count so much as it's about "loads per day" when you're busheling. Nice timber on easy ground can net many more loads per day than a straight-falling gig on steep ground where a load comprises 70-95 sticks per. Cutting for a helicopter side can be an even more mixed bag because you have to consider how the loads will be bundled and in that case, it's all about weight. You can have to work within the allowable for whatever helicopter you have working the job.

 

[Dennbb]

Watched a show with two experienced Oregon loggers discussing the industry and their own experiences. One of them did not want his son to follow in his foot steps. He felt the profession was too dangerous and cited the "many close calls" he had seen. That is all very easy to believe.

The show went on to claim that this logger cuts up to 200 trees a day. I have two thoughts about that:
1) It would be extremely dangerous to cut that speed.
2) I find that number hard to believe. This was Oregon logging, the trees tend to be of substantive size.

As for me I feel more like ~30 big cut trees is a solid day. Though nowhere close to being a professional logger. If I was expected to cut more than ~50 trees/day I would quickly walk away. I feel like such high speed cutting is asking for a major disaster. How is one going to deal with widow makers etc. with no inspection wha

 

[Dennbb]

Watched a show with two experienced Oregon loggers discussing the industry and their own experiences. One of them did not want his son to follow in his foot steps. He felt the profession was too dangerous and cited the "many close calls" he had seen. That is all very easy to believe.

The show went on to claim that this logger cuts up to 200 trees a day. I have two thoughts about that:
1) It would be extremely dangerous to cut that speed.
2) I find that number hard to believe. This was Oregon logging, the trees tend to be of substantive size.

As for me I feel more like ~30 big cut trees is a solid day. Though nowhere close to being a professional logger. If I was expected to cut more than ~50 trees/day I would quickly walk away. I feel like such high speed cutting is asking for a major disaster. How is one going to deal with widow makers etc. with no inspection whatsoe

Watched a show with two experienced Oregon loggers discussing the industry and their own experiences. One of them did not want his son to follow in his foot steps. He felt the profession was too dangerous and cited the "many close calls" he had seen. That is all very easy to believe.

The show went on to claim that this logger cuts up to 200 trees a day. I have two thoughts about that:
1) It would be extremely dangerous to cut that speed.
2) I find that number hard to believe. This was Oregon logging, the trees tend to be of substantive size.

As for me I feel more like ~30 big cut trees is a solid day. Though nowhere close to being a professional logger. If I was expected to cut more than ~50 trees/day I would quickly walk away. I feel like such high speed cutting is asking for a major disaster. How is one going to deal with widow makers etc. with no inspection whatsoever?

It's not doable.

 

[2dogs]

I worked the same project several years in a row where I cut 200 or more trees per day. Other guys cut more than I did. Most of the trees were willows with a few other species thrown in for variety. The trees were not bucked very often and other guys drug the trees to the chipper. In later years I spent my time on the tractor backing the chipper up as the trees came down. The trees were in the 3"-6" range, only a few were larger.