Done with bad fuel !

[North by Northwest]

Unless you are an Indy car driver it sounds like we are in agreement ethanol is inferior to gasoline - for those of us that have to live with it day to day.
As to not caring about carbon intensity it is understandable that not many are familiar with it, and therefore don't care about it. I encourage anyone that thinks ethanol is better for the environment to research its carbon intensity. It's a good thing to have an understanding of.

Inferior within performance vs inferior to the environment as a renewable resource are two different rationals . Ethanol is a much cleaner burning fuel , only during prolonged storage is there any downside . Used properly is has no inherent liabilities . Unfortunately the manufacturers of small engines where caught off guard when it was 1st introduced , hydroscopic by nature it required some retooling within small engine design perimeters & operator protocol changes for its efficient storage & usage .

 

[JRM]

Inferior to performance vs inferior to the environment as a renewable resource are two different rationals

Ethanol is inferior in both ways, unless you are strictly looking at tail pipe emissions. When looking at ALL emissions associated with a gallon of ethanol vs a gallon of gasoline things change drastically. Carbon intensity. I won't even point you towards any links so as not to be accused of being biased. Just don't use the EPA website as a metric- they used modeling based on future growth of technology that didn't even exist when they passed ethanol as an eligible RFS.
In other words, they skewed the numbers heavily in their favor to push ethanol forward.

 

[Bill G]

Unless you are an Indy car driver it sounds like we are in agreement ethanol is inferior to gasoline - for those of us that have to live with it day to day.
As to not caring about carbon intensity it is understandable that not many are familiar with it, and therefore don't care about it. I encourage anyone that thinks ethanol is better for the environment to research its carbon intensity. It's a good thing to have an understanding of - and you just may change your opinion on the "better for the environment " shtick.

Please fill us in on the carbon intensity.

 

[Hermio]

Unless you are an Indy car driver it sounds like we are in agreement ethanol is inferior to gasoline - for those of us that have to live with it day to day.
As to not caring about carbon intensity it is understandable that not many are familiar with it, and therefore don't care about it. I encourage anyone that thinks ethanol is better for the environment to research its carbon intensity. It's a good thing to have an understanding of - and you just may change your opinion on the "better for the environment " shtick.

Actually, I have studied climate change and CO2 extensively. I am a Chemical Engineer by trade. Ethanol and its cousin, butanol, do produce less of a carbon footprint than gasoline. However, I don't care, because only 0.28% of all greenhouse gasses come from human activity. What I do care about is that combustion of fossil fuels produces particulate carbon, carbon monoxide, various nitrogen oxides and other things that are toxic to human health. Moreover, oil spills, which are inevitable, are far more harmful than ethanol spills. All that having been said, anything beyond 10% ethanol is probably not practical in 2 cycle engines.

 

[Hermio]

lead has its inherent benefits within a 4 cycle engine as does sulphur & phosphorus , not a benefit within 2 T engines !

But it is not good to breathe lead exhaust fumes! BTW, I grew up with leaded gasoline in my first several cars. Today's cars last far longer and have less fuel-related maintenance. I remember having to change spark plugs ever 5-10 thousand miles due to lead oxide deposits. I have gone over 200,000 miles on original plugs with newer cars.

 

[North by Northwest]

Ethanol is inferior in both ways, unless you are strictly looking at tail pipe emissions. When looking at ALL emissions associated with a gallon of ethanol vs a gallon of gasoline things change drastically. Carbon intensity. I won't even point you towards any links so as not to be accused of being biased. Just don't use the EPA website as a metric- they used modeling based on future growth of technology that didn't even exist when they passed ethanol as an eligible RFS.
In other words, they skewed the numbers heavily in their favor to push ethanol forward.

Ethanol (E-10) is 20 % less carbon intensive than conventional petroleum gasoline . Any fossil fuel has a carbon print liability . CO2 vs Methane vs Nitrogen Oxide (Nox) all contribute to potential green house gas concerns . However this is far outside the scope & original rational of the op's bad gas concerns . Lets try to stay within the intent or scope of his original concern !

 

[North by Northwest]

But it is not good to breathe lead exhaust fumes! BTW, I grew up with leaded gasoline in my first several cars. Today's cars last far longer and have less fuel-related maintenance. I remember having to change spark plugs ever 5-10 thousand miles due to lead oxide deposits. I have gone over 200,000 miles on original plugs with newer cars.

Your absolutely correct within toxicological properties & related health concerns . I was just advising of the inherent performance benefits of lead within an internal combustion 4 cycle engine vs a 2 cycle engine . The overriding health risks is why unleaded gasoline & low sulphur diesel fuels are the norm today . P.S. better metallurgy within valve train , spark plug electrode design , electronic ignition & fuel injection systems have produced better technology & efficiency accordingly .

 

[JimR]

Yeah, that's the plan for me as well. I've got a mountain of parts for this thing sitting in a closet here - Magnuson supercharger, Truck Norris cam, AFM delete with new lifters and pushrods, new oil pump and a few other things. Ran out of money and need to rebuilt the engine before juicing the power output up 50% - she's got 121k on her, and things ain't built like they used to be, so I've got to rebuild, unfortunately. My plan was to have ALL the idiotic systems tuned out of this thing once it's finished.

Wish we could just pull to a pump for E0 here, but we've got gigantic group of A-holes running this state.

]

It is crazy how each state has such widely different laws. I have heard stories of how much you folks can haul on your highways. If we hauled the loads you folks do we would have no roads left.

We are known for sunken roads and potholes.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

You hit the nail on the head in regards to what I have been saying. The fuel issues are caused by the actions of the owner not the fuel. The fact is things change and we must change and adapt to the changes. We do not have to like the changes but the change is inevitable.

Partly true. Actions of some owners accelerate the problems, BUT, these problems didn't exist before ethanol was introduced to our gasoline.

 

[KASH]

You did not have to change your spark plugs every 5000 miles in the old days all you had to do is what I do nowadays.You clean and regap them they will out last the engine
The reason plugs last with no maintanance now is because of the hotter spark from electronic ignition systems.
They make the plugs with harder conductors because people are help less and would have no idea what a spark plug looks like never mind removing cleaning and gapping them.
Kash

 

[HansFranz]

You did not have to change your spark plugs every 5000 miles in the old days all you had to do is what I do nowadays.You clean and regap them they will out last the engine
The reason plugs last with no maintanance now is because of the hotter spark from electronic ignition systems.
They make the plugs with harder conductors because people are help less and would have no idea what a spark plug looks like never mind removing cleaning and gapping them.
Kash

I just developed a miss on my 2003 F-150 and had to replace the first spark plug on that after 160k miles. (Only reason I haven't replaced them sooner is because I've heard that job on this engine can be a freakin nightmare, with galled/seized threads, plugs breaking off, etc etc. )

Even after 160k miles, the spark plug didn't look that bad! LOL

I was surprised there was anything left. (It turned out it was the coil pack for that cylinder that was bad and I apparently could have continued using the plug LOL)

 

[North by Northwest]

I just developed a miss on my 2003 F-150 and had to replace the first spark plug on that after 160k miles. (Only reason I haven't replaced them sooner is because I've heard that job on this engine can be a freakin nightmare, with galled/seized threads, plugs breaking off, etc etc. )

Even after 160k miles, the spark plug didn't look that bad! LOL

I was surprised there was anything left. (It turned out it was the coil pack for that cylinder that was bad and I apparently could have continued using the plug LOL)

Yeah sequential fuel injection is precise & efficient although not cost effective . Give me the ole throttle body unit with batch fired injectors any day lol. Actually a faulty O2 sensor or dirty mass air flow sensor will give a false sense of rough idle or plug miss scenerio also . My Code Reader Analyzer gets a workout on my various gas & diesel equipment . Trouble shooting these days is no longer a seat of your pants rational !

 

[Bill G]

But it is not good to breathe lead exhaust fumes! BTW, I grew up with leaded gasoline in my first several cars. Today's cars last far longer and have less fuel-related maintenance. I remember having to change spark plugs ever 5-10 thousand miles due to lead oxide deposits. I have gone over 200,000 miles on original plugs with newer cars.

Oh no wait a minute... according to some these fuel and maintenace issues did not occur "back in the day" I say IF you can find cars in the bone yard go check the odometer. Years ago 100,000 was worn out......today 100,000 is just getting broken in.

 

[Bill G]

]

We are known for sunken roads and potholes.

Hey wait a minute I thought Illinois had that market cornered

This is not a joke ever winter a local radio station has a contest and awards money to the person that is first to spot and document the biggest pothole.

We used to have weight embargoes on our county blacktops from March 15 to June 1. In some cases we were limited to 10,000lbs. It appears they gave up as we have to haul grain and livestock. The other issue is say it is april 10th a road needs fixed that has a 10,000 lb limit on it. Just what equipent can you haul there to fix it....?

I also hear you folks in Massachusetts have some type of warranty/lemon law on the selling of used vehicles. They way it was explained to me by a fine gentleman it sounded like well a real pain in you know what.

 

[Bill G]

Partly true. Actions of some owners accelerate the problems, BUT, these problems didn't exist before ethanol was introduced to our gasoline.

I will have to disagree. Engines have had fuel related issues since the first one was built. As I have said many times change is inevitable and needed. Folks can either adapt to the change or go on the internet and complain about it. There are many changes I do not like but I have adapted to them. I want to adapt to some of them but I have no other option.

 

[Bill G]

You did not have to change your spark plugs every 5000 miles in the old days all you had to do is what I do nowadays.You clean and regap them they will out last the engine
The reason plugs last with no maintanance now is because of the hotter spark from electronic ignition systems.
They make the plugs with harder conductors because people are help less and would have no idea what a spark plug looks like never mind removing cleaning and gapping them.
Kash

The neighbor down the road had an air powered spark plug cleaner. Go find one of those in a shop today. We had a 1949 IH TD-9 dozer tht satrted on gas and then you switched to diesel. You had to darn near clean the plugs every time you wanted to start it. Finally we gave up and just blocked the blade up and then gave it a "pull start"....I miss that dozer

 

[Bill G]

I just developed a miss on my 2003 F-150 and had to replace the first spark plug on that after 160k miles. (Only reason I haven't replaced them sooner is because I've heard that job on this engine can be a freakin nightmare, with galled/seized threads, plugs breaking off, etc etc. )

Even after 160k miles, the spark plug didn't look that bad! LOL

I was surprised there was anything left. (It turned out it was the coil pack for that cylinder that was bad and I apparently could have continued using the plug LOL)

What engine was that? There were some that you literally did not want to touch the plugs for the exact reasons you mentioned. I had a 2003 F250 with a 5.4L that went 180,000 without a plug change but all my Dodges I had to replace plugs several times. I am not saying it was a Dodge problem though just an experience.

I do think it is funny how it used to be when you went to change plugs all you needed to do was pop the hood. Now it some trucks you have to remove/lift the cab

 

[Bill G]

............. Trouble shooting these days is no longer a seat of your pants rational !

Very true

 

[JRM]

I was surprised there was anything left. (It turned out it was the coil pack for that cylinder that was bad and I apparently could have continued using the plug LOL)

My Mercury 4.6 ate coils so often that I kept a spare at all times in the glove box, along with an 8mm to change them.
The 4.6's did have their issues with plugs seizing buy weren't as common as the 5.4. I owned several of each and made it a point to pull each plug and coat the threads with antiseize at low mileage.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Last time I did plugs on my Subaru, the ground electrode was just about gone. 1/4" gap or better. Can't clean and re-gap what isn't there.

Did the plugs on my Chevy not too long ago. The plugs are a pain to do, and the current pricing for my preferred NGK plugs is $1.74/ea for standard, and $2.49/ea for platinum. If paying less than a buck extra per plug means the plugs last 50k miles, shut up and take my money.