Echo CS-590 timberwolf vs. Echo CS-600P

[jughead500]

German shindaiwa 600 sx hp figures are at 4.52 ps which is 4.52 hp.that is not much less than the 4.7hp posted for the stihl 362 or husky 562xp.who is going to notice .18hp? Of course im talkin muffler mod on the 590/600 in the usa.anyone from germany fill us in on any emissions restrictions?

 

[Chris-PA]

""yesterday's tech, sold cheap""
Intersting that Echo can pass the EPA regs without the smoke and mirrors of stratocharging and feedback carbs...

Yeah, that stuff probably doesn't really do anything to reduce emissions and improve efficiency and performance - the Echo engineers are much smarter than the guys at Zenoah, Husqvarna and Stihl.

Passing the limits is one thing, but how you do it and what compromises are required make a difference. All the manufacturers did the limiter cap, compromised porting and plugged up muffler thing initially, but some of them have now developed more effective technologies to address the fundamental problems. They can meet the limits while improving performance. Others are still slapping on Band-Aids because they failed to make the investment in product development.

 

[echoshawn]

Yeah, that stuff probably doesn't really do anything to reduce emissions and improve efficiency and performance - the Echo engineers are much smarter than the guys at Zenoah, Husqvarna and Stihl.

Passing the limits is one thing, but how you do it and what compromises are required make a difference. All the manufacturers did the limiter cap, compromised porting and plugged up muffler thing initially, but some of them have now developed more effective technologies to address the fundamental problems. They can meet the limits while improving performance. Others are still slapping on Band-Aids because they failed to make the investment in product development.

Right, because the latest, greatest technology is always the most efficient.
My old 89 tercel averaged 40+ mpg on the highway running 70mph.
My 97 ram cummins using the minimum number of valves and mechanical injection technology averages 20+ mpg all day long, and isn't lacking in the power department.
Point being, maybe the Echo engineers refined the existing technology to the point where power is perfectly adequate, emissions meet standards, and the consumer gets the benefit of the lower price.
Being on the cutting edge is not always the best place to be


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[Chris-PA]

Right, because the latest, greatest technology is always the most efficient.
My old 89 tercel averaged 40+ mpg on the highway running 70mph.
My 97 ram cummins using the minimum number of valves and mechanical injection technology averages 20+ mpg all day long, and isn't lacking in the power department.
Point being, maybe the Echo engineers refined the existing technology to the point where power is perfectly adequate, emissions meet standards, and the consumer gets the benefit of the lower price.
Being on the cutting edge is not always the best place to be


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I ran my 10 year old strato engined GZ4000 clone a lot this weekend. It's not cutting edge, it's been on the market for a decade. The feedback carbs are of course more recent. Hey look, you can cut wood with the Echo just as well as you could with a similar saw of similar technology 20 years ago. It's probably well made like most Echos, and if the lean mixture doesn't kill it it should last a long while. Just be realistic as to why it is being sold cheap.

 

[jughead500]

I guess echo is havin a hoot a watchin us Quarrel like teenagers.lol maybe the epa gave them credits to make the two stroke Junkies quarrel amongst themselves.

 

[echoshawn]

Just makes me remember why I fell out of this forum for a while. Plenty of "experts" who love to stir the pot.... And stupid me, I take the bait.



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[jughead500]

OK guys i'm gonna let you all worry about all 21 Pages of this.I got to go saw logs.

 

[hoskvarna]

OK guys i'm gonna let you all worry about all 21 Pages of this.I got to go saw logs.

In the dark???


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[jughead500]

In the dark???


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You damn tootin'.I'm too tired to argue hp figures right now.lol

 

[jughead500]

Dont know if trolls lookin to usa hp figures or what? BUT if you take outall of the restrctions Iin the 500/600 then the ratings are .18 hp behind the others.

 

[mountainlake]

HP ratings are BS big time, look at how they cut side by side. If someone can explain why the 3.8 hp MS290 cuts right with the 3.2 hp MS260 I might change my mind. I saw one of those gutless MS290 saws on a saw job on Saturday, pathetic for 56cc. The fact is the high fabricated HP numbers sells saws to the uninformed . Steve

 

[Ronaldo]

HP ratings are BS big time, look at how they cut side by side. If someone can explain why the 3.8 hp MS290 cuts right with the 3.2 hp MS260 I might change my mind. I saw one of those gutless MS290 saws on a saw job on Saturday, pathetic for 56cc. The fact is the high fabricated HP numbers sells saws to the uninformed . Steve

Gotta agree with you on the ms290's, not much to be liking there.

 

[Chris-PA]

I agree that advertised HP isn't worth much - there isn't really any truth in advertising. In fact I'm inclined to like Echo equipment, as I have some old stuff that still works well. To me it is a matter of how they address the two main sources of emissions (primarily unburned fuel in the exhaust) on chainsaws: scavenging losses and poor carb mixture control.

For the first, the problem is simply that the exhaust port is open while fuel mix is flowing into the cylinder. It turns out that quad transfers (and now apparently a branched "Y" transfer) are better at directing the flow away from the exhaust port. But this has been done for years, and still requires other port timing modifications that are not optimal for performance. Strato is mechanically simple, directly addresses the problem by delaying the arrival of fuel to the cylinder, and allows port timing that improves performance. So which is the better solution?

As for the second, chainsaw carbs can only produce a correct mixture at one point - under max load at WOT. Everywhere else they are rich, and often so rich the engine misfires. You can tweak it a little by using an accelerator pump so the idle does not have to be rich, but that is just idle. All you can do for the main circuit is set it as lean as you dare under load. Unless of course you had a carb that produced the correct mixture.....

The best solutions have been developed but they are both owned by Husqvarna, which leaves the others to either pay to use them, try to come up with something better or soldier on with the old approaches. Echo is doing the latter, and that is not appealing to me other than for the price.

 

[blsnelling]

The 600P is one of the most anemic 60cc saws as they come from the factory. However, they respond VERY well to mods. It doesn't take much to make them start coming around. They're actually quite impressive ported.

 

[mountainlake]

Any Echo saw is unimpressive as they come, they need both tuning and a muff which might take 20 minutes. Steve

 

[hoskvarna]

Any Echo saw is unimpressive as they come, they need both tuning and a muff which might take 20 minutes. Steve

muff modded and limiter caps,richin up my cs600p.
big difference!

 

[hoskvarna]

. Used the 600 and ht101 pole saw for some storm clean up this mornin


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[jughead500]

Dont know what I would do without my ht131 and ht100.

 

[hoskvarna]

Dont know what I would do without my ht131 and ht100.

pretty handy arent they

 

[jughead500]

yeap sure are.especially in storm cleanup.