Financing Woods equipment?

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I hate when people blast their houses. For most folks it is the one true equitable asset they have for emergencies and retirement. If crap ever hits the fan you can let everything go back and still have a safety net.

And also deductions have changed or are changing.


It’s a business expense. The interest is deductible. The equity in your home is the guarantee . The new law means you can no longer deduct the interest from home equity loans on personal purchases such as cars and vacations.
 
I guess my next statement will cause some controversy, but I am going to make it anyways. Learn to hide money. Screw Uncle Sam before he screws you. Back when I owned a business, I tried to do everything nice and legal by the book. Then I paid a local guy $100 for a little tractor work and Uncle Sam found out the guy didnt have his own workers comp and charged me for $300 for his insurance. I learnt right quick being legal would make you go broke. From that point on, anybody that paid in cash, that money went in a drawer to be used for such things as paying the local farmer for a hour or two of tractor work, keeping the transaction off the books. I managed to take in enough cash to buy extra equipment without having to fool with banks most of the time.
 
It’s a buiness expense. The interest is deductible. The equity in your home is the guarantee . The new law means you can no longer deduct the interest from home equity loans on personal purchases such as cars and vacations.

I'm not an accountant I just know the laws are changing but that makes sense.

All I'm saying is that hitting the home with a HELOC is something I cringe at when I see many do it unless it's an improvement that is going to make the home gain value. If you can take out a 50k loan at 5% for 5 years without hitting your house in general that is going to be safer even if your HELOC is 4%. Like people ravaging their 401k 's to make big purchases. A good financial person is going to make you more interest than your paying and usually can set the payment up out of your investments so it never comes out of your pocket book. SO your still earning money on your money and your earnings are paying the interest and principle depending on your investment portfolio.

I worked with an FA last week on a $232k purchase for a mutual client. I locked them at 4.49% for 7 years. It's setup to have a disbursement every month and if the customer decides the economy is going to pot he can cash out on it.

I'd maybe think different if I was going to be saddled with a double digit rate but at that point the purchase would have to be a necessity.
 
I hate when people blast their houses. For most folks it is the one true equitable asset they have for emergencies and retirement. If crap ever hits the fan you can let everything go back and still have a safety net.

And also deductions have changed or are changing.
And when you 'let everything go' does the other person/people on the other, now bad, side of that trade lose instead? As long as it's not you personally, but someone else and their kids it's OK? Or perhaps it's a faceless corporation so it doesn't really matter.

I just have what seems like an unrealistic view that oif you create a debt, you pay it regardless of the potential hardship to you or your kids - it's your call to take on the debt so it's all on you, apart from those situations where sharks lend to people they already know won't be able to pay the loans back. I don't put much credence in the notion that society is better off with limited liability companies and trust structures designed to leave someone else wearing the loss.
 
I guess my next statement will cause some controversy, but I am going to make it anyways. Learn to hide money. Screw Uncle Sam before he screws you. Back when I owned a business, I tried to do everything nice and legal by the book. Then I paid a local guy $100 for a little tractor work and Uncle Sam found out the guy didnt have his own workers comp and charged me for $300 for his insurance. I learnt right quick being legal would make you go broke. From that point on, anybody that paid in cash, that money went in a drawer to be used for such things as paying the local farmer for a hour or two of tractor work, keeping the transaction off the books. I managed to take in enough cash to buy extra equipment without having to fool with banks most of the time.
That evokes a trend towards anarchy that doesn't serve society well in the long run, even if it is immensely satisfying to the individual.
 
I’m still confused how they enforced that
Workers comp. You have to buy the insurance from the state to cover your employees. They do audits every so often and they found where I paid the farmer with a check. They considered him my employee and therefore had to be added to my policy since the farmer didnt carry his own workers comp. Since the policy is written for a year, I had to carry him for a whole year, even tho that was the first and only time I had used him prior to the audit.
 
And when you 'let everything go' does the other person/people on the other, now bad, side of that trade lose instead? As long as it's not you personally, but someone else and their kids it's OK? Or perhaps it's a faceless corporation so it doesn't really matter.

I just have what seems like an unrealistic view that oif you create a debt, you pay it regardless of the potential hardship to you or your kids - it's your call to take on the debt so it's all on you, apart from those situations where sharks lend to people they already know won't be able to pay the loans back. I don't put much credence in the notion that society is better off with limited liability companies and trust structures designed to leave someone else wearing the loss.

I don't think it should be the mindset ever but debt is a reality by many and is pushed by the government. But sometimes things happen. I have a friend who's younger brother at the age of 31 died from meningitis. Here one hour and gone the next. 3 kids and wife worked part time only. He was very successful and took care of 98% of the bills. All of a sudden you go from a 250k yearly income to a 20k yearly. Most creditors won't wait for things to get settled if you get behind as they didn't in her case.

Let's say someone just racks up 300k in debt and just bails on it all for the heck of it. That ain't right. But it happens all the time. You should see the people with 120k in college loan debt. Than they say that the degree they received and english lit degree. Most likely never gonna pay that back and they don't care. Lots of broken things with many peoples mindset.
 
Workers comp. You have to buy the insurance from the state to cover your employees. They do audits every so often and they found where I paid the farmer with a check. They considered him my employee and therefore had to be added to my policy since the farmer didnt carry his own workers comp. Since the policy is written for a year, I had to carry him for a whole year, even tho that was the first and only time I had used him prior to the audit.

Sounds like a sub contractor to me


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Forceing me to pay for $300 worth of insurance for a $100 payment for labor doesnt serve society well either.
If the law is an ass , and you'll get no argument from me on that point in many instances, where's the incentive to change it if it's easier to just decide which laws to abey and which ones can be skipped without consequence?
 
I don't think it should be the mindset ever but debt is a reality by many and is pushed by the government. But sometimes things happen. I have a friend who's younger brother at the age of 31 died from meningitis. Here one hour and gone the next. 3 kids and wife worked part time only. He was very successful and took care of 98% of the bills. All of a sudden you go from a 250k yearly income to a 20k yearly. Most creditors won't wait for things to get settled if you get behind as they didn't in her case.

Let's say someone just racks up 300k in debt and just bails on it all for the heck of it. That ain't right. But it happens all the time. You should see the people with 120k in college loan debt. Than they say that the degree they received and english lit degree. Most likely never gonna pay that back and they don't care. Lots of broken things with many peoples mindset.
I agree the dysfunction within the system can be manifestly unfair. That anyone can just bail on a debt without consequence is precisely the sort of dysfunction that motivates otherwise law abiding and moral people to bend or tweak the rules or their own morality to seek what they consider a more just outcome for themselves. That's a slippery slope and the evidence of how far some can slide is all around us every day. The law and rules a society live by, and the enforcement thereof, need to be sorted so that everyone in society benefits from the corrections.

Your friend's brother who died the sudden death didn't have insurance, didn't self-insure, and if he did either then society didn't have rules in place to see creditors were sorted promptly? That again is something society needs to correct if those rules were not in place creating hardship upon an otherwise innocent family.
 
Sounds like a sub contractor to me


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If he came with his own tractor he was. Farm tractor? Farm workers are exempt. Not to mention anything under $400 isn’t even required to file 1099. And that amount was a long time ago. Now it’s up to $600 the last time I needed to give a 1099.
And the State doesn’t sell insurance, so you can’t be forced to buy it from them.
 
The State doesnt sell the insurance, but they do require you to have it. Violations can be treated as a misdemeanor or as a felony. Farm workers are exempt if they are doing Agr work. Hireing him to work for me was not farm work and he was not considered a farm worker. NC state is different than a lot of states. Here is what the rules state.

If you subcontract work to a subcontractor who does not have workers’ compensation insurance, you may be liable for the work-related injuries of the subcontractor’s employees, regardless of the number of employees you or the subcontractor employs. For information on workers’ compensation requirements in the trucking industry, please click here.

If You Fail to Carry Workers’ Compensation Insurance, You May:
1) Face stiff financial penalties;
2) Be charged with a misdemeanor;
3) Be charged with a felony; and
4) Be imprisoned.
http://www.ic.nc.gov/wcinsrqmt.html

Working and bidding on jobs, I got a lot of work simply because I did have WC insurance on my employees. In fact a lot of contractors would ask me up front if I had the insurance. My having the insurance meant they didnt have to provide it for me to work on their job sites. I also carried a $1mil general liability policy and had a Dunns number which allowed a large contracting company to find me for any projects they might have in my area. This allowed me to do work for the state and local governments.

Also for information, If as a homeowner you hire the neighbors kid to mow your grass and that kid doesnt have his own insurance, you as the homeowner are responsible to provide the insurance and if he cuts his foot off mowing your grass you are finacially responsibile. Now I have no way of knowing how many people on this site that cuts trees or scrounges firewood on someone elses property that dont carry insurance. I would guess the number to be more than one or two. By law, you should have insurance or the homeowner you are working for should have insurance coverage on you while you are on his property.
 
I agree the dysfunction within the system can be manifestly unfair. That anyone can just bail on a debt without consequence is precisely the sort of dysfunction that motivates otherwise law abiding and moral people to bend or tweak the rules or their own morality to seek what they consider a more just outcome for themselves. That's a slippery slope and the evidence of how far some can slide is all around us every day. The law and rules a society live by, and the enforcement thereof, need to be sorted so that everyone in society benefits from the corrections.

Your friend's brother who died the sudden death didn't have insurance, didn't self-insure, and if he did either then society didn't have rules in place to see creditors were sorted promptly? That again is something society needs to correct if those rules were not in place creating hardship upon an otherwise innocent family.

I have always believed if you owe it you pay it. That is why with my company we tried to do everything by the book. ChapterS corp business license, insurances, tax accountants, WC on employess, unemployment insurances, the whole 9 yards. When you are trying to do everything right and then the government sticks you with something as unfair as what they did, then you start looking at it in a different light. You see everybody around you doing work that isnt going by the book and undercutting your prices because their cost of doing business is less, simply because they dont follow the rules. It makes you start thinking what in the heck are you doing. When you do $250k in business and Uncle Sam gets a bigger piece of the pie than you do, you start asking Why. When you see all the taxes and fees you had to pay just to be a business, it makes you wonder if your working on a fair playing field.

Going into debt is a cost of doing business. Not everybody has tons of cash laying around to buy new equipment when they need it. Most people cant buy their first house or first car without some sort of financing. I know of several folks, mostly younger people just trying to get started, that have a new truck or a new piece of equipment given to them. They go to work and are making money hand over fist, until that truck wears out, or that equipment breaks and they have to replace it. Then they go in debt and find out they werent even making enough to cover their expenses. If one is going to buy a piece of equipment, or even if its given to you, you have to be making enough money to replace it when the time comes, or pretty soon, your business will just die a slow painful death. If the business will generate the income needed to be self substaining, then the added debt isnt the burden one thinks it is, and whether or not to borrow the money to make the purchase the equipment shouldnt even be a consideration. If you have doubts the piece of equipment can pay for itself, then one shouldnt even consider the purchase. Of course its hard to really know, but if you have been in the business for any lenght of time, you should be able to look at your books and see if the income is really there to support such a purchase.

A sudden death isnt something one can predict, but one can take precautions in the event something like that does happen. When I was young with small children, I took out a death and disability policy. The policy was large enough to pay off my home and put me in the ground. I also had a small life insurance policy that would have left my wife with some money to keep her going for a while. It wasnt enough that she wouldnt have to keep working, but it would have given her time to do what she needed done. Those policies where not that expensive, altho the premiums did go up every so often. I just canceled the last policy a couple weeks ago. The house and cars are paid for, the kids are grown, my burial paid for, retirement checks every month, a little chunk of change in my IRA. I dont need a large insurance policy, even tho a large check would be nice and I still have a small policy on the wife in case she goes first.
 
When it comes to financing equipment I struggle justifying buying used. The used rates are crazy so if I'm buying used its usually cash. I really wanted (not needed) a Wacker loader but didn't like the price of a new unit. I found a used unit at I price I liked and spend a ton of time trying to finance it at a reasonable rate. I finally got a great rate with Ag direct with a similar rate to my mortgage. They had much more involved paperwork upfront than I have ever experienced but once we got past that they were excellent to deal with. I had looked at some from muddstopper's list but the rates were crazy IMO. A creative idea I had was to refinance trucks I own or have good loan to value ratio. I could get great rates, with a very simple process and buy the equipment with the money.
 
Your friend's brother who died the sudden death didn't have insurance, didn't self-insure, and if he did either then society didn't have rules in place to see creditors were sorted promptly? That again is something society needs to correct if those rules were not in place creating hardship upon an otherwise innocent family.

He had life insurance, retirements, etc. His kids also receive SSI now but it was not close to immediate. There were fights everywhere with final payments to his wife on life insurance and such. I think they even were fighting some of it because of DR prescribed medications. Don't know how NZ is but here it seems lawyers and legals get their fingers in everything.
 

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