Getting my 25 acre wood lot timbered this winter

[xraydaniel]

It will if you think that way. Good luck.

Well, sure my brief speculation may taint my feeling and outlook but let’s compare it and everything to government spending and omnibus bills. Shouldn’t we always demand transparency in everything? I give everyone the benefit of the doubt upon first blood. When I know someone for a long enough time trust becomes a bond. I like my forester so far from our few meetings. Proof will be in the pudding.

 

[northmanlogging]

Great points. It’s surprising how many spray cans are consumed by the bark of a pine.

If I had the time and energy I would be doing all the marking myself but that’s not gonna happen with my current life situation. I will be checking often to see how it’s going.

As noted earlier I already have a management plan. It’s a low grade selective cut + clear cut. I’m not sure if I will get a spreadsheet of what was cut and sold from my forester after the mill tally is done. I would hope to get one and also a breakdown of costs and charges. Who knows if back door deals take place and a private forester takes a kick back from a certain outfit, more than a little high grading is done, and the actual invoice doesn’t reflect an honest cut. I’m sure it happens all the time.

Crooks are everywhere, but if you have a reputable forester and a reputable logger, you will be fine.
Just swing by while they are there often enough to keep tabs on things, but not so much as to be underfoot and everyone will be happy. Just don't be a moron and waltz out into the cut while they are working, wait at the landing in a reasonably safe spot... rule of thumb don't go past the fallers trucks... as they're probably not going to smash their own trucks.... they may not know where your's is though...

Whatever happens you should get at least some paperwork from the mills showing gross board footage, net board footage and of course money for trucking etc, Granted east coast may do things differently, but the mill should provide something to someone, even if its not you, you should be able to get your paws on it and keep tabs of what is actually going on.

It would also be wise to request a trucking ticket for every truck that leaves loaded, that should include destination and ownerships.
Note; I run a self loader log truck, I haul for every sort of logger there is, most are honest, many don't have a damned clue, I always at least try to leave a load ticket unless no one is around, or they don't care to have em, even then if they are around I make sure they get one. Its reallllllly easy to steal wood in a self loader, so I do my part to remain accountable as best I can.

 

[xraydaniel]

Crooks are everywhere, but if you have a reputable forester and a reputable logger, you will be fine.
Just swing by while they are there often enough to keep tabs on things, but not so much as to be underfoot and everyone will be happy. Just don't be a moron and waltz out into the cut while they are working, wait at the landing in a reasonably safe spot... rule of thumb don't go past the fallers trucks... as they're probably not going to smash their own trucks.... they may not know where your's is though...

Whatever happens you should get at least some paperwork from the mills showing gross board footage, net board footage and of course money for trucking etc, Granted east coast may do things differently, but the mill should provide something to someone, even if its not you, you should be able to get your paws on it and keep tabs of what is actually going on.

It would also be wise to request a trucking ticket for every truck that leaves loaded, that should include destination and ownerships.
Note; I run a self loader log truck, I haul for every sort of logger there is, most are honest, many don't have a damned clue, I always at least try to leave a load ticket unless no one is around, or they don't care to have em, even then if they are around I make sure they get one. Its reallllllly easy to steal wood in a self loader, so I do my part to remain accountable as best I can.

You are an honorable and honest man.

 

[ATpro]

The problem is getting someone to come in to select cut such a small wood lot and removing just the undesirables. Around here loggers are 6 months behind and may not move for a small woodlot. It cost time and money to move a logging operation. You would be best to look for a small producer, one that can accommodate you and your needs.

 

[xraydaniel]

The problem is getting someone to come in to select cut such a small wood lot and removing just the undesirables. Around here loggers are 6 months behind and may not move for a small woodlot. It cost time and money to move a logging operation. You would be best to look for a small producer, one that can accommodate you and your needs.

I have a guy I’m meeting this Saturday who specializes in smaller jobs.

 

[xraydaniel]

Did a thorough cruising with the logger and it turns out this may wind up being a revenue neutral job as the clearcut doesn’t contain enough merchantible timber to offset the dice and chip to make that 2-3 acre area nice and clean. This is what I was looking for in the area anyways. After marking and cutting we will find out if the mill tally yields some extra stumpage for revenue or not but I’m ok with getting the work done at a revenue neutral outcome. It’s just not a large enough and old enough wood lot for high grading yet. I’ll give it 20 years with this selective cut to see how it progresses. There are enormous amounts of oak seedlings that need to thrive. Ferns need to be reduced. Light needs to come in. It’s looking good for the future.

 

[northmanlogging]

Did a thorough cruising with the logger and it turns out this may wind up being a revenue neutral job as the clearcut doesn’t contain enough merchantible timber to offset the dice and chip to make that 2-3 acre area nice and clean. This is what I was looking for in the area anyways. After marking and cutting we will find out if the mill tally yields some extra stumpage for revenue or not but I’m ok with getting the work done at a revenue neutral outcome. It’s just not a large enough and old enough wood lot for high grading yet. I’ll give it 20 years with this selective cut to see how it progresses. There are enormous amounts of oak seedlings that need to thrive. Ferns need to be reduced. Light needs to come in. It’s looking good for the future.

early management is usually valueless, or at worst costs the land owner, but it makes successive harvests leaps and bounds better.
Cutting the scrubby stuff now and not having to pay to have it done is a win win situation, in 10-20 years you will have a decent hardwood stand worth considerably more money then if you left it alone.

 

[xraydaniel]

early management is usually valueless, or at worst costs the land owner, but it makes successive harvests leaps and bounds better.
Cutting the scrubby stuff now and not having to pay to have it done is a win win situation, in 10-20 years you will have a decent hardwood stand worth considerably more money then if you left it alone.

Yeah I’m learning that now. Spending time with the pros in the woods, researching abundantly, and watching many videos helps greatly to understand the logging industry and forest ecology.

 

[northmanlogging]

Yeah I’m learning that now. Spending time with the pros in the woods, researching abundantly, and watching many videos helps greatly to understand the logging industry and forest ecology.

far more to it then "Dur i kuts da tree and tree make big noyse ah yuk" at least when its done right.

 

[ATpro]

Yeah I’m learning that now. Spending time with the pros in the woods, researching abundantly, and watching many videos helps greatly to understand the logging industry and forest ecology.

The more you're exposed the more you learn. Was a time when you had to almost give pulpwood away to get someone to thin it on the first cut in Plantation Pines. If the pines were planted on a government program you had to plant the number of stems they wanted and thin when they told you to. When working with clients who planted on their own we could adjust the number of stems to suite the type of land and timing for the first thinning, this way they had a several years to time the cut and for the best price.

I encourage folks that are to old to grow a generation of lloblolly pine to plant long leaf pine. A government program will pay for most of the cost and one can burn at a regular rate and keep the under story clean. You need fire to bring long leaf out of the grass stage and can burn every 4 or 5 years. This helps control the hardwood regeneration and provides better habitat for wildlife. If they are young of age loblolly pine is the way to go.

 

[xraydaniel]

So I reconsidered the clear cut as I am afraid pioneer species will take over and in 2 years when I build it may prove to be a definite headache. Since I’m not absolute in my time horizon for building, the clear cut will cost money rather than produce revinue, the probability of undesirables popping up is high, and the existing quality timber won’t have more time to flourish when selectively cut. I believe it’s best to just keep it simple and stick with an across the lot selective cut to enhance the stand.

 

[northmanlogging]

So I reconsidered the clear cut as I am afraid pioneer species will take over and in 2 years when I build it may prove to be a definite headache. Since I’m not absolute in my time horizon for building, the clear cut will cost money rather than produce revinue, the probability of undesirables popping up is high, and the existing quality timber won’t have more time to flourish when selectively cut I believe it’s best to just keep it simple and stick with an across the lot selective cut to enhance the stand.

generally a different sort of permitting hassle too, clear cut for timber vs clearing and grading to build. every county is different, but waiting on that end of things will definately save you headaches.

clearing for a building will cost you money, but you should find someone that will be willing to offset the timber value at least for part of the clearing work.

 

[xraydaniel]

generally a different sort of permitting hassle too, clear cut for timber vs clearing and grading to build. every county is different, but waiting on that end of things will definately save you headaches.

clearing for a building will cost you money, but you should find someone that will be willing to offset the timber value at least for part of the clearing work.

I can zip smaller trees down with my brush cutter in fast order while the stand in that area continues to grow over 2 years. I believe it will be easier in the long term. I can also cut down that stand myself and sell the logs when the time comes.

 

[ATpro]

One thing to remember is to keep fire out of your woodlot, fire will damage or kill your hardwoods. If the fire get hot enough too boil the sap in the lower trunk of the tree it will kill the tree. You can burn woodlots with hardwoods but you must take special care like burn with the wind and don't head fire.

The idea is to move the fire through as fast as you can, a back burn moves to slow and the fire stays around the trunk of the tree to long. On a small woodlot you can remove debris like leaves and brush from around the base of the tree by raking it back. Sometimes I set fire to these leaf piles before I set the main fire. The object is to reduce fire load around the hardwood base and keep the trunk as cool as possible.

 

[xraydaniel]

One thing to remember is to keep fire out of your woodlot, fire will damage or kill your hardwoods. If the fire get hot enough too boil the sap in the lower trunk of the tree it will kill the tree. You can burn woodlots with hardwoods but you must take special care like burn with the wind and don't head fire.

The idea is to move the fire through as fast as you can, a back burn moves to slow and the fire stays around the trunk of the tree to long. On a small woodlot you can remove debris like leaves and brush from around the base of the tree by raking it back. Sometimes I set fire to these leaf piles before I set the main fire. The object is to reduce fire load around the hardwood base and keep the trunk as cool as possible.

Prescribed burns in this region are almost unheard of. Gotta say that I certainly would never do a brush burn in a wood lot either. Large pasture area? Sure.

 

[ATpro]

Prescribed burns in this region are almost unheard of. Gotta say that I certainly would never do a brush burn in a wood lot either. Large pasture area? Sure.

Rather run a Prescribed Burn than let nature take it's course. If done right it can clean up nice. For years I was a prescribed burn manager. Guess the way I look at fire, it's just another tool but an important one in forestry.

 

[xraydaniel]

Rather run a Prescribed Burn than let nature take it's course. If done right it can clean up nice. For years I was a prescribed burn manager. Guess the way I look at fire, it's just another tool but an important one in forestry.

I think the last time fire came through this area might have been mid century and earlier.

 

[ATpro]

I think the last time fire came through this area might have been mid century and earlier.

Probably don't have the under-story growth that we have. In one year on a clearcut you can have head high growth that's so thick that it's hard to walk through. One needs to prescribe burn as soon as the fire can't reach the crown, then burn about every 3 or 5 years.

Normally with loblolly pine that is about 14 years and you must watch close to make sure the fire doesn't get to hot. I try run a backfire with no headfire, paying close attention to wind, humidity, and problem spots when burning loblolly pine for the first time. Long leaf you burn at about 3 years and once the trees have grown enough you can burn every year or when you want to. Eliminating the under-story help pine grow better, and fresh growth provides browse for game.

 

[xraydaniel]

Probably don't have the under-story growth that we have. In one year on a clearcut you can have head high growth that's so thick that it's hard to walk through. One needs to prescribe burn as soon as the fire can't reach the crown, then burn about every 3 or 5 years.

Normally with loblolly pine that is about 14 years and you must watch close to make sure the fire doesn't get to hot. I try run a backfire with no headfire, paying close attention to wind, humidity, and problem spots when burning loblolly pine for the first time. Long leaf you burn at about 3 years and once the trees have grown enough you can burn every year or when you want to. Eliminating the under-story help pine grow better, and fresh growth provides browse for game.

We have a very thick duff layer of leafy detritus that is usually quite wet and at least this year even deluged. It’s so hardwood dominant. Burns are not even thought of in my area. In gravelly line areas up north, maybe?

Still waiting for the forester to mark or even correspond but I know he’s busy.

 

[ATpro]

From the looks of your pictures there is nothing to burn except leaves. If you want to control the under brush just use roundup in a sprayer you can selective kill what you like.