Has this ever happened to you?

[tree md]

I know how ya feel Cody. You want to have the job done right.

I'm just starting out and learning really quick that itemizing every frickin detail about the job really pays off. Having it all in writing and having them sign off. I also take pics when anything is questionable. In the end all they really care about is making it look like nothing happened. I give every one the same rates for the job. To me its what is going to take to get it done and make something at the end of the day.

I did one at a condo complex a few weeks ago where 3 people from the condo association and I literally narrowed 4-5 branches down on each tree to be removed. It went like "should we take this branch, no that branch," and so on. We looked over 6 trees and what should have taken about 15 min ran for over an hour. I just sat there quietly taking notes, thinking wow this outa be interesting. They also insisted several times that the residents would drag branches to the curb for the city to pick up. I told them I would rather just do the work and they insisted. I said ok and wrote all the specifics down and had them sign. Day of the job comes and the president of the association does help drag branches on the first tree, but disappears during the second. No one else shows up. She also had me take down a lot more than what they agreed on. Well, who could have guessed it. She was the final say so I felt comfortable doing it. I figured the cost the same if I was doing all the work or not and it turned out I did do the majority of it. Whatever, in the end I got paid and everyone "seemed" happy.

If they try to insist on helping with the job you need to take control of the negotiations at that point and tell them that it is against company policy due to liability issues. That usually shuts them up on that one.

 

[pdqdl]

... It went like "should we take this branch, no that branch," and so on. We looked over 6 trees and what should have taken about 15 min ran for over an hour...

I had an incident much like that yesterday.

My biggest customer asked me to very carefully prune a couple of trees in a prominent landscape feature downtown. Sure! No Problem.

The property manager was DEEPLY concerned that too much might be cut off of four little-leaf lindens that were only about 15' tall. Every single branch was handpicked, despite my suggestions to do more. OK, I don't mind.

Well...I didn't mind too much, despite the fact that he was picking teeny little branches that didn't matter, while ignoring larger (1") branches that were crossing & rubbing, or otherwise should have been pruned out.

I spent as much time with my leatherman using the 3" sawblade as I did with the 18" long handsaw. You see, my handsaw has trouble cutting off 3/8" caliper branches, and I didn't dare break them off!

 

[bitzer]

If they try to insist on helping with the job you need to take control of the negotiations at that point and tell them that it is against company policy due to liability issues. That usually shuts them up on that one.

I will be pulling that one out in the future. Thanks. I've already had too many things left on the table that the client was supposed to take care of.

Last winter I put a 36" dbh willow onto the ice. Before the job, I was told about all of these neighbors that wanted firewood. I was also told by the owner that they would burn the branches out on the ice. I'm thinking this will be sweet. I can chunk up the big stuff and skid it out to the landing and limb and buck the rest for burning and firewood. Loaded the pieces onto the flatbed and away I went! Well the lake association got wind of it and a couple of days later I was getting rid of the rest, this time with no heavy equip. and draggin it all up hill. Ended up going back out there again for the really little stuff, because they didn't want that going in the lake. Frickin dying crack willow. LOTS of little stuff in the melting snow and ice.

Now I put the option in the contract, price with total log removal or owner retention of the logs and I always get rid of everything else. Well, that is until a couple of weeks ago. I guess it takes me two times to learn. I'd rather get rid of everything any way. That way I know its done and how I want it to be.


Btw: just starting on the tree service side of things. I've been felling and thinning and clearing for years. Tree service is a different world. Wtf is a rake? ha. ha.

 

[tree md]

Here's where I see a lot of guys who are new to the business make a mistake: They price a job for the best case scenario. That's never a good idea. People will promise to take firewood and all kinds of things that will not materialize a lot of the time.

I got a call from a young guy last Memorial Day weekend. He was a manager for one of the local line clearance contractors. His company is a pretty large contractor and his job is mostly scheduling crews and making sure they have everything they need to get the job done. He is also a climber. Pretty sharp young guy in his early 20's. He had gotten in over his head doing some moonlighting in a town that is about 20 miles out of the city. He was from an area over an hour and a half away. He figured he could do the job over the holiday and be finished in time to get back to his regular job on Tuesday. He had access to company equipment and employees. He was splitting the money with the guys he had asked to do the job with him. All young guys. Well, the climber he was working with put the trees on the ground then split. The guy who drove the chipper truck backed out on him and chose to party over the weekend instead. That left him on his own to get all the wood and brush out of there and he is in an area far from home with no contacts. To make matters worse, this was at a manufacturing company and he had to have the parking lot cleared by Tuesday when everyone came back to work. He was between a rock and a hard place. He called me and asked about my ad for 24 hour emergency service and asked if I could work the Holiday. I said sure. He wanted me to come out and chip all the brush. I went out and looked at it and told him $500. About a half day of work and I was trying to give him a break and help him out. Normally I would have charged more for emergency service and working the Holiday. He said he couldn't do it. Said he didn't have $500 left in the job. I don't know what he was expecting me to do. I would have liked to have helped him out but I can't do charity work for the guy.

I have standardized prices. If someone picks up some firewood or something else works out by providence that is great... But I don't count on it.

Price your jobs for the worst case scenario and put it in writing. If the HO, HOA, property manager or whoever says that they are going to handle the wood tell them that's great, here's the price if you handle it that way. However, be sure to have it in black and white on the same page that it is going to cost this much if that situation don't work out and I have to deal with or touch the wood.

 

[NORTREE]

I USED to give Senior Citizen Discounts but we don't now. Most of the people that wanted the senior citizen discount lived in million dollar and up homes...and those that didn't were the first to complain about anything when the job was done. A friend of mine(in the excavating business) told me he learned long ago that he had give a lot of "little old lady" discounts because they claimed poverty then they left hundreds of thousands of dollars and millions to the church when they died...if anyone deserves a discount its the young people starting out.
At this stage in my life if this guy had called me misrepresenting himself and threatening I WOULD go after him and his job...sorry to say it but after all these years of people screwing me over I am done with it!

 

[prentice110]

Please elaborate.
Jeff
I can't believe I was actually able to read that!

Wow. way too many old styles and gin an tonics last night. cant believe the spelling was as good as it was. I had too chip more brush at another job and only had one truck with a hitch. Told her id be back later with the bobcat to get the logs out. I was half an hour later than i said id be cuz the next job added on twice the work and she called 4 times with fire shootin out her eyeballz.

 

[Hddnis]

On the topic of old people...

I started out working for old folks doing lawn care at a tender young age. They all knew the family and all were honest and paid well, bonuses at Christmas time etc. I helped them out with all kinds of odd jobs and thought they were great.

Fast forward a few years and based on that good experience starting out I decide to market to senior citizens. The marketing generated a lot of business for me and very little profit. On the whole old people are whiney, know-it-all, lazy, tightwads. My opinion of the "greatest generation" is that they are just about the worst bunch of losers this country ever had. Exceptions do exist, I worked for plenty of those too; but the majority were not worth the hassle at all. On average it was better to work for young people and wait sixty days to get paid in full!

I could go on for days with stories...




Mr. HE

 

[bitzer]

Price your jobs for the worst case scenario and put it in writing. If the HO, HOA, property manager or whoever says that they are going to handle the wood tell them that's great, here's the price if you handle it that way. However, be sure to have it in black and white on the same page that it is going to cost this much if that situation don't work out and I have to deal with or touch the wood.

Thanks for the tip! Thats what I have done since that willow fiasco. I have a spot right on the qoute sheet for price discount if the owner wants to keep the firewood. I have them sign on what we agreed upon and make very clear what firewood means if they want to keep it. ie: 30" rounds that are 16-18" long if that is the case. I also make clear of what handling means and if I do where it should go. I have also been pricing for the worst case. If things go well, then I'm ahead. If not well then I squeak. I have a standard base cost for stump grinding too. I've already ran into too many surprises that kill the bottom line on that. Thanks again.