Husqvarna Homeqwner Saw Plastic Construction

[Chris-PA]

For being a Principal Hardware Engineer, who knows international business and is smarter than everyone else, you sure are befuddled by lots of stuff.

You don't have all the same parts. The fasteners that hold the engine to the chassis are eliminated. As is the step of bolting the engine in the chassis.

No harassment, just an observation. :msp_wink:

A wise man once told me "Take something apart enough times and eventually you'll have two of them."

30% I'm smarter than everyone.
30% Everyone is dumber than me.
30% blah blah blah.
10% Actual question or useful information.
10% oop:

I am surprised at some of these responses. Engineers are beyond reproach, but you people probably aren't smart enough to understand why.

Short version:

You designed something. You thought it was a great idea. You had to retrain the entire production staff in order to make your idea work and even then it didn't do what it was supposed to (eliminate chips in the assembly). Years go by and you finally re-design it so it works instead of listening to the people on the floor who told you it was a bad idea in the first place.

Funny how all the things that work are your idea and everything that doesn't is someone else's, typical engineering practice.

Someone begs to differ.

My favorite engineering quote: "It shouldn't do that."

That's weird, I could have sworn you said that it had to be redesigned because the screw bosses had to be larger? Let me see if I can go back through this thread and find it.

Oh look, here it is.



I can see how you would forget writing that, it was almost 5 hours ago.

And from your responses you don't seem to listen on any day, because you already know what is best and everyone else is just whining.



Now it's the marketing guy's fault that the engineer didn't ask what the end user actually wanted?



No doubt, have you seen the posts from the guy who is always crying about how bad carburetors are?



The posts where someone is full of oop: jump out, as well.



I like your posts, they make me laugh.

I have no agenda.

-DSS

What part of my world view have you challenged and where has anyone been less than civil?

I like reading your posts, the contradictory circles that you write in are quite amusing. I wish you would be a little less verbose, though as it makes wading through your posts tedious at times. I get that you think people can't grasp concepts on the same level as yourself, there is no need to repeat it ad nauseum.

You were looking for an answer to an engineering question, people gave you plausible suggestions. Unless the original designer signs on you are never going to have a definitive answer. You have said multiple times that engineers have to make compromises for various reasons, not the least off which is cost. Why was that not a good enough answer to your original question?

Some people did address the initial question. Even you did, once, in all the BS. Of course, your response was completely incorrect and showed only that you had no idea, but I suppose that's good enough in your book. You threw something sorta relevant on the wall, that's a pretty good day's work I guess. But then you were never interested in the topic, and that was always obvious.

If you actually read any of the stuff that was on topic, you might have seen that quite a few pages back I concluded that it was probably a manufacturing work flow issue. I'm more than happy to continue discussing the original topic, and to entertain plausible explanations. If someone posts an idea that makes sense I'll say so. If someone posts something that isn't technically correct then it won't really explain much, but I don't go jumping all over them.

But the point is you don't care about this topic. You are not in the least bit interested - why are you posting in this thread? Why does the discussion here bother you in any way? Why are you reading it?

We can talk about why Husky makes their plastic housings they way they do, or we can go back and forth until Bob shuts it down, I don't really care. I learned what I wanted to about what was only a minor issue to me anyway, and maybe some others did too even with all your efforts to disrupt it.

 

[Adirondackstihl]

.

 

[Chris-PA]

They build them that way so that when the saw destroys itself it makes it more costly for the repair because they have to replace the chassis or they will tell you by the time you repair it you should have gone and gotten another one brand new with warranty and you will break even or you will spend another hundred or two on a new saw instead of repairing the used one. dealers make more money with saws and equipment that breaks and needs to be replaced then they do on selling parts plus labor at a local dealer. simple math make equipment that cheap enough for everyone to buy but cost to much to repair more product that gets replaced rather then gets repaired make more money then repairs no product will move if you are able to keep repairing it. so todays society through it out and get a new one if repair cost to much

OK, so if it is planned obsolescence, then why do they do it differently on the cheaper Poulans?

 

[Stephen C.]

Hmmmm...this was obviously written by an engineer.

You're right about our expectations though. If we don't hold the engineering community's feet to the fire occasionally they'll design whatever works best for them and not for us.

Case in point...there's a large equipment manufacturer that I no longer have anything to do with because of their attitude toward the product they produce...and the customer that uses it. We bought a loader from them, brand new and state of the art, that spent most of it's time sitting idle while techs chased down the problems that made it useless to me. Electrical, hydraulic, electronic, engine, gearing, tracks...you name it and it was giving us problems.


Sure, it was covered under warranty but warranty doesn't pay for my down time and the resultant lost production. I had it on a two week trial and of the eleven working days it never completed an entire day without a slowdown, a breakdown, or a melt down. We had so many hydraulic fires from chafed wiring bundles and dripping hydraulic fluid that we designated one of the landing rats as the fire bottle guy and kept him on standby.

They finally got a factory rep out to the woods, an engineer of course, and without ever looking at the machine or reviewing the repairs done by the techs, he said " You loggers expect way too much out of the machinery you buy. These things were designed by educated people with engineering credentials and they know what they're doing. You're just going to have to get used to the idea that machinery isn't perfect and that some flaws are to be expected.. We believe that the end user bears a certain responsibility for field testing on the new models we sell."
I have neither the time, the interest or the resources to do "field testing" for a manufacturer.
All I was asking was a machine that would do what it was advertised as being able to do. Apparently I was asking too much.

I told the factory rep to leave. I sent the loader back. When they asked me why I told them why. It was poorly engineered. I'm sure that the engineers had plenty of self serving excuses why that machine was so useless. I'm sure the excuses make sense to the engineers. They just didn't make sense to anyone else.

Are engineers always totally at fault when something isn't right? Of course not. But it's a good place to start looking.

wow they want the customer to beta test a zillion dollar machine after it is in production? Yikes.

 

[bucknfeller]

You still don't get it. World views and differences in opinion have nothing to do with why they are drawn to your posts. It's the tone in which your views are conveyed.

Yes, I have noticed that thomas and the boys are deeply sensitive folks who are easily hurt. They're really just protecting themselves (and all those other innocent AS members) from my harsh, evil ways and my "tone".

Spare me.

There it is right there...

Some people did address the initial question. Even you did, once, in all the BS. Of course, your response was completely incorrect and showed only that you had no idea, but I suppose that's good enough in your book. You threw something sorta relevant on the wall, that's a pretty good day's work I guess. But then you were never interested in the topic, and that was always obvious.

If you actually read any of the stuff that was on topic, you might have seen that quite a few pages back I concluded that it was probably a manufacturing work flow issue. I'm more than happy to continue discussing the original topic, and to entertain plausible explanations. If someone posts an idea that makes sense I'll say so. If someone posts something that isn't technically correct then it won't really explain much, but I don't go jumping all over them.

But the point is you don't care about this topic. You are not in the least bit interested - why are you posting in this thread? Why does the discussion here bother you in any way? Why are you reading it?

We can talk about why Husky makes their plastic housings they way they do, or we can go back and forth until Bob shuts it down, I don't really care. I learned what I wanted to about what was only a minor issue to me anyway, and maybe some others did too even with all your efforts to disrupt it.

There it is again, see?



What I was trying to do, was find a nice way to say that most people find arrogance, and self-righteousness irritating. That's why some folks are giving you a hard time. :msp_thumbup:

 

[Chris-PA]

There it is right there...



There it is again, see?



What I was trying to do, was find a nice way to say that most people find arrogance, and self-righteousness irritating. That's why some folks are giving you a hard time. :msp_thumbup:

You are working hard to read what you expect to see into what I wrote. "I concluded" is me making up my mind about the question I asked. Clearly I don't get to decide anything about what anyone else thinks - does that actually need to be stated, and do you think anyone here was actually waiting for my blessing?

And if someone has a good idea or suggestion, wouldn't it be polite of me to say so?

As to the first, thomas1 never cared the least about my tone and he never cared at all about this topic. He came to this thread to disrupt, which he began on post #2.

 

[DSS]

I have no agenda.



-DSS

I believe I copyrighted that.

When you're done dismantling this guys overstuffed ego and condescending attitude you owe me dinner.

 

[Chris-PA]

I believe I copyrighted that.

When you're done dismantling this guys overstuffed ego and condescending attitude you owe me dinner.

No one likes a scrawny cow.

 

[DSS]

Some people did address the initial question. Even you did, once, in all the BS. Of course, your response was completely incorrect and showed only that you had no idea, but I suppose that's good enough in your book.





why are you posting in this thread? Why does the discussion here bother you in any way? Why

So you're convinced that Thomas is "completely incorrect". Then you must know the answer to your own question? Please enlighten those of us who are not lucky enough to have an engineering diploma hanging on the wall. You see, some of us acquired our knowledge from a book, and the rest of us actually do things hands on in the real world and have to take responsibility for our mistakes, and not blame anyone else who happens to be nearby.

Toms probably posting here for the same reason I am. Our BS(no pun intended) threshold is low. Ego maniacs amuse us. We can't help it.

So what is the answer to your original question please?

 

[Chris-PA]

So you're convinced that Thomas is "completely incorrect". Then you must know the answer to your own question? Please enlighten those of us who are not lucky enough to have an engineering diploma hanging on the wall. You see, some of us acquired our knowledge from a book, and the rest of us actually do things hands on in the real world and have to take responsibility for our mistakes, and not blame anyone else who happens to be nearby.

Toms probably posting here for the same reason I am. Our BS(no pun intended) threshold is low. Ego maniacs amuse us. We can't help it.

So what is the answer to your original question please?

I like to work with my hands, so I assume you must be the bookworm. Was it a Little Golden Book?

Poo Bear's statement was factually incorrect (both designs have the same number of bolts). I stated this before and hope I have not confused anyone with such repetition.

I also stated what I believed the reason was, but it's a little hard to find any content in with all the excrement.

 

[stihl023/5]

No one likes a scrawny cow.

We do.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[DSS]

I like to work with my hands, so I assume you must be the bookworm. Was it a Little Golden Book?



Poo Bear's statement was factually incorrect (both designs have the same number of bolts). I stated this before and hope I have not confused anyone with such repetition.



I also stated what I believed the reason was, but it's a little hard to find any content in with all the excrement.

Thanks for that stunning response. There's certainly no doubting the fact that you fancy yourself an engineer.

 

[Hedgerow]

I like to work with my hands, so I assume you must be the bookworm. Was it a Little Golden Book?

Poo Bear's statement was factually incorrect (both designs have the same number of bolts). I stated this before and hope I have not confused anyone with such repetition.

I also stated what I believed the reason was, but it's a little hard to find any content in with all the excrement.

Are both machines made in the same plant, on the same line? Or is one made assembly line style, and the other by teams?

 

[Chris-PA]

We do.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Oh good, I'm glad you're here. Thomas was running out of "material" and needed to reload, and DSS just couldn't get anything going.

 

[Chris-PA]

Are both machines made in the same plant, on the same line? Or is one made assembly line style, and the other by teams?

I don't know. It is the kind of thing I was wondering about, and was hoping someone might know some of that information.

 

[Hedgerow]

I don't know. It is the kind of thing I was wondering about, and was hoping someone might know some of that information.

Many times, similar processes are pulled off in different ways, just because "that's the way we've always done it"...
Or some production manager swears it goes together faster that way, while the other production manager in another plant swears it's better the other way, and those in upper management look at the processes from a man hour perspective and say, "Hey, as long as it works"...
Sound irrational???
That's cause it is...
As are most of the people putting these machines together...

 

[Chris-PA]

Many times, similar processes are pulled off in different ways, just because "that's the way we've always done it"...
Or some production manager swears it goes together faster that way, while the other production manager in another plant swears it's better the other way, and those in upper management look at the processes from a man hour perspective and say, "Hey, as long as it works"...
Sound irrational???
That's cause it is...
As are most of the people putting these machines together...

That can certainly happen. I was wondering on the drive home if maybe it was a sign that Poulan might still have something of a separate design group left? There are some clear differences between their products and those of the other Husky groups.

 

[Hedgerow]

That can certainly happen. I was wondering on the drive home if maybe it was a sign that Poulan might still have something of a separate design group left? There are some clear differences between their products and those of the other Husky groups.

I guarantee that would be the case if you asked any of the folks in AR at the Poulan plant...
Real, or perceived...

Poulan has operated a manufacturing plant at Nashville since 1976. With 1,400 employees, the plant is a major employer in southwest Arkansas.

Mike McCann, vice president of operations at the Nashville plant, says involving employees in important company decisions is part of a total quality management program that keeps morale high.

McCann has run the Nashville plant since 1984.

The company's continued success is evidenced by its expansion. Poulan has increased the number of employees at Nashville by almost one-third since 1990.

McCann also points to the fact that Poulan's waste management program has resulted in a 99 percent reduction in wastes since it was implemented five years ago.

Jerry Wilcox, Poulan's environmental safety engineer, designed a cleaner-separator to recycle alcohol that is used to clean oil from some of the parts. Both the oil and alcohol are reused.

The device saved Poulan $16,000 in its first year of use.

The Nashville plant produces more than 3 million products annually. Metal castings are purchased for the products. They then are cut and assembled at the plant.

 

[Chris-PA]

I guarantee that would be the case if you asked any of the folks in AR at the Poulan plant...
Real, or perceived...

Sometimes even large multinational companies will keep a group like that intact. It is actually a PITA to manage across an ocean and several time zones, and it is easier to sell off as a separate entity if needed. It is a nice idea anyway.....

 

[7sleeper]

LOL...Engineers should be required to spend a lot of time actually working on what they design.

I'm thinking logging equipment and heavy machinery...working in field conditions, in the dirt, maybe in the rain, possibly at night with a flashlight held in their teeth, at the end of what's already been a long and dirty day.

Maybe they'd come up with something easier to maintain and repair if their focus was on something else other than ease of assembly and unit cost.

Those days are long over and all the companies that did that are long gone from the market. Simply because your boss won't pay the bill for that equipment. Elaborate research costs money adding to the bill of the end product. You might not want to carry it around because it is built like a tank. You might have to look for a new job because your are worn out after 20 years. How often have you given the companies of the products you use a serious feedback? How often is regular/routine maintainace considered in your work environment? Or do you use the equipment until it fails, because equipment not being used is money lost?!
It's the same in every area of consumer products. Everyone complaining they want everything but don't want to pay the bill.

There sure is a lot of whining going on in this thread!

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