Interesting log lifting arrangement

[mtngun]

I grew up in north Idaho not all that far from there but have never been to the park so I've been planing to spend a few nights there when I drive up to visit next week.

It's a good time of year to visit -- maybe a little early, even, because some of the hiking trails may not open up until July.

My favorite area in the park is Kintla Lake at the North end of the park, next to the Canadian border. It had the clearest water and the fewest people.

I stopped by a local plumbing supply the other day to ask about uni-strut. They have the square stuff for $30 for 10 feet

I bought 10's and welded them together to get the length I wanted, but it tends to warp when welded. If I had to do it over, I'd get 20's and cut them to the desired length. Actually, if I had to do it over, I'd go with an aluminum guide board.

 

[mtngun]

I usually use a ladder but I find they sag under the weight of the mill.

Unistrut will sag, too. It typically needs one or two supports in the middle to keep it from sagging. I've been wedging in a stick or a cookie, but there's got to be a better way.

 

[Brmorgan]

Glad you're having a great time, Bob. Love those panos, too.

I'm only 28, and when I was quite young, maybe 7-8, we drove the Icefields Parkway and the glacier was right down near the road even then - it was very early spring when we went through, and I can remember a solid 20'+ wall of snow and ice at the side of the road along a few stretches up there. It is a sad loss. That much ice takes a loooong time to build up, but disappears quickly.

A little more on-topic, I picked up a great big floor/trolley jack yesterday at the scrap for $10. It's a combo manual hydraulic or pneumatic lift. The air line has been cut so I need to try to fix that, but the manual action works just fine and is all I'd use if I had it out in the field to lift a log anyway. I can't find a tonnage rating on it, but I have a 2-1/2 ton jack of the same design and it's much, much smaller. This one's a good 3' long with a ~4' handle.

 

[BobL]

I'm kinda excited. I've had this pile of unistrut I've been trying to figure out what I should use it for. I'm gonna try to do something similar to the one you made BobL. I like the way it connects to the end of the log. What do you use to put the two sections together with to make it longer? I usually use a ladder but I find they sag under the weight of the mill. Thanks for the idea.

I use 3/8" all thread rod to join it together - like this.

Under this arrangement Unistrut will still sag, and it will twist more than most ladders - the advantage is it is a lot more adjustable for width and length than a ladder.

I also use the unistrut for just about all of my cuts and usually write off the first cut for twist and bow accuracy so that most of the unistrut can sit on a flatish piece of fresh cut log. Then I measure monitor twist and bow in the cut using a digital angle finder and adjust the unistrut with small wedges.

An decent size ally guide board would be one way to go. About 2 years ago I was looking at a 20 ft length of 8 x 2" x 1/8" piece of ally but they wanted AUS$200 for it.

For a few $ less an ally scaffold board of about the same size was available. It has a very strong cross section that looks like this and looks like it would not buckle as

One disadvantage is those little ridges all along the length but these could be belt sanded off.
The T-slots in the corners could be useful for adding end cross pieces that grip onto the ends of logs.

My interest in chasing these is the possibility of getting hold of used boards but the only used ones I have seen were a touch too bent and beat up to warrant purchasing.
They also weigh about the same per unit length as unistrut.

I'd like to use two of these and make a more rigid connection between the two than all thread rod but it will too expensive to do with new material.

 

[betterbuilt]

Great picture. I think I'll make a 12 foot set of rails from the unistrut. I like how you've made it expand with the 3/8 threaded rod and wingnuts.

I have so much unistrut I'm wondering If I used 3 foot sections of unistrut with spring nuts instead of the 3/8 rod and made an attachment screw similar to the one Granberg uses on their Ez rails to support the rail mid span.

I was looking for something similar to the guide boards you described but I never found anything that was close.

 

[BobL]

Great picture. I think I'll make a 12 foot set of rails from the unistrut. I like how you've made it expand with the 3/8 threaded rod and wingnuts.

If I was making another set of unistrut rails from scratch I would consider using something else other than all-thread for the cross pieces because the all-threads are too slow to adjust for width and for length. Because I like my rails to sit as flush as possible on the subsequent sawn surface I can't have any cross pieces that connect from underneath the unistrut so they have to connect through the unistrut. I don't know what I would use instead - I'd have to think about it.

I have so much unistrut I'm wondering If I used 3 foot sections of unistrut with spring nuts instead of the 3/8 rod and made an attachment screw similar to the one Granberg uses on their Ez rails to support the rail mid span.

That means having cross pieces that are underneath the log rails and having the whole log rails perched up in the air like the granberg system. I have tried this and I don't reckon they work as well as having as much as possible of the rails sitting direct on the log itself. I place the log rails on the log and mark on the log where the all-thread touc,hes the log and then use a CS to cut notches in the bark etc until the whole log rail assembly sits snug on the surface of the log - like this.

The granberg rails are also first-cut fixed-width rails. I don't know how big the logs are you plan to cut, but a narrow fixed width rail does not work well for wide logs and VV. So making the width adjustable is really useful.

Also, watch out for the maximum width of your cross pieces, Using 3 ft cross pieces assumes you have at least something like a 42" bar as the cross pieces have to pass inside the mill. I have two sets of cross pieces - 30" for my big bars/mill and 18" for my smaller ones.

was looking for something similar to the guide boards you described but I never found anything that was close.

Scafolding supplier yards in Australia have them so I'd imagine it would be the same in the US.

 

[betterbuilt]

If I was making another set of unistrut rails from scratch I would consider using something else other than all-thread for the cross pieces because the all-threads are too slow to adjust for width and for length. Because I like my rails to sit as flush as possible on the subsequent sawn surface I can't have any cross pieces that connect from underneath the unistrut so they have to connect through the unistrut. I don't know what I would use instead - I'd have to think about it.


That means having cross pieces that are underneath the log rails and having the whole log rails perched up in the air like the granberg system. I have tried this and I don't reckon they work as well as having as much as possible of the rails sitting direct on the log itself. I place the log rails on the log and mark on the log where the all-thread touches the log and then use a CS to cut notches in the bark etc until the whole log rail assembly sits snug on the surface of the log

I see what your saying. I normally use a ladder that is almost impossible to keep it from sagging or bouncing around. Its really a joke getting it set up. I have made probably five different attachment brackets for the ladder and I find that every log has to be setup completely different.

Most of the logs I do are 30inch and bigger. Anything smaller I take to the Mill. I can cut up to 45 inches right now. I plan on upgrading in the future.

Well I guess I continue to think this over for a while prior to making anything. I'm sure there has to be a way to build a rail that will work better than a Ladder. Thanks

 

[betterbuilt]

I was checking out your log lift 2. I'm gonna have to make one of those. I currently use a floor jack and cookies to lift my logs but it hard to get them started unless they are off the ground a little. Nice work.

 

[huskyhank]

I use the Maloof style end guides and board. Mine is made from a 10 foot long 2x12 and some 1.5 inch angle iron. Its pretty stiff but its really heavy.

Pictures in this thread from earlier this year:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=127798

Maybe the next thing I'll tackle is an improvement over this system. I'd love to have a guide board that was plenty stiff and easy to move.

The most explanatory photo moved here:

 

[betterbuilt]

Nice looking setup. It sure looks a lot bigger than a 2x12. Thanks for the Info.

 

[DRB]

I use the Maloof style end guides and board. Mine is made from a 10 foot long 2x12 and some 1.5 inch angle iron. Its pretty stiff but its really heavy.

Pictures in this thread from earlier this year:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=127798

Maybe the next thing I'll tackle is an improvement over this system. I'd love to have a guide board that was plenty stiff and easy to move.

The most explanatory photo moved here:

Your guide board looks a lot like my set up. I made mine 14' long so I can cut 10' 6" comfortably. Your right it is a bit on the heavy side. I cut a handle into the end so that I can drag it with one hand and carry something else with the other hand. I was thinking of putting a set of bicycle wheels on the end then I could wheel it around with my saw and mill on it.

 

[huskyhank]

It is a 2X12 - that's only about a 16" log - a little small but a really nice one with very little sapwood. And the saw being at the far end makes it look smaller.

 

[Kicker_92]

We just use full length 2"x4" steel rails.

Tip: If your rails overhang the end supports by 1/4 of the length, they won't sage as much in the middle...

 

[DRB]

Cheers JNL - I'm working in Calgary for the next two months - not many decent sized trees here

I really miss my mills and trees but I am getting a chance to see some amazing stuff compared to what we see in Oz. When I'm traveling and I can't play with saws and wood at least gives me time to work on my other hobby, photography. Have taken over 4000 photos in 4 weeks (2 of those weeks have been work)

Here's a few places we saw last weekend.

The weather in western Alberta is pretty severe so the growing season is very short. I think Calgary's is in Zone 2 were only Spruce and Cottonwood trees will thrive.
I was driving through the Columbia Ice Fields on Aug 1st on my way to a Wedding in Rocky Mountain House and it was snowing so hard we could not see the ice fields from the highway. The summit before the ice fields there was 6" of snow on the highway in the middle of the afternoon. The whole weekend it did not get above 8 degrees.
This was shocking being from BC. None of us had pants, sweaters or jackets. It was August long weekend we were supposed to be swimming, drinking beer and watching girls. Instead we had the furness on in the camper and struggled through the snow flurries to play golf.
It is beautiful country thou. Enjoy your stay in our country BobL

 

[betterbuilt]

I see a poll coming!

This is about the most helpful site I've ever used. I wish I had found it a few years ago when I was getting started.

The steel 2x4's isn't a bad idea except for the weight.


This is what I'd love to do If I could move all my logs around
I found this picture on BC Woodwork's web site
View attachment 141964

The problem I've found is most of them are 2000lbs and up. When I pull up to mill a log with a truck and trailer full of stuff I'm always wondering how am I gonna get all the wood home. Some how I can usually fit most of it. It would be nice to leave the ladder home and have something that broke down or collapsed a little.

 

[gemniii]

BobL

How about some sort of cam-lock on the threaded rods for a quicker fastener?

something that would tighten down on the rod when you closed the cam, but loosened up enough so you could slide the rod thru when open, instead of turning a bolt.

or a slip-on nut?

OR!!! Morton Button Thread nuts!!
http://mortonmachine.thomasnet.com/...read-hex-nuts/hn-750?&plpver=10&assetid=a1198


available here http://www.jtsmach.com/jtswebshop/Toolroom/TA191.asp for about $10@

 

[betterbuilt]

How about a slip lock nutView attachment 141967

 

[BobL]

Yeah I have seen those slip lock thingies but I would need at least 15 of them and @ $6+ each thats a bit much

 

[gemniii]

Yeah I have seen those slip lock thingies but I would need at least 15 of them and @ $6+ each thats a bit much

No - you would not need 15. You would need 30 because your going to lose them in the sawdust!

I've got to find out the size of my STEEL THREADED ROD and I might order 8 of the morton's, for 4 sections of rod.

 

[BobL]

No - you would not need 15. You would need 30 because your going to lose them in the sawdust!

I've got to find out the size of my STEEL THREADED ROD and I might order 8 of the morton's, for 4 sections of rod.

This is how I would do it - so I would need 18,

The green nuts on mine are acron nuts so the mill slides past them easily. The green ones need to be slip nuts