Klotz Oil

[bwalker]

#1 on the KART race circuit -

Not in any of the Kart series I have heard of.
FWIW suitability as a race oil and as a working oil are two different things.
Begley, that change in idle speed you notice is caused by the different combustion characteristics of the oil and not because Klotz is slicker. Synthetic oil are not slicker as this is a old wives tail.

 

[Trucks'N Saws]

I've had 2 stroke bikes and quads for almost my entire life. Mostly I'm running Maxima Super M in the quads now. I have about 3500 miles on my two Banshee's and probably 15,000+ on a 86 Honda 250R (yes those are miles, the 86 has never been opened up or had a clutch, according to the GPS we average about 350 miles a normal trip). I've tried many oils and the Super M has given the "best" performance for the money. However these are water cooled engines and not really applicable to saws.

All oils are not created equal. THe oil I used in the race bike was not designed for use in my regular riders, same should go for race saws VS. worksaws. Also, synthetic oils are not more "slippery" than dino oil or blends. In fact many synthetic oils are less "slippery" than regular oil. Synthetic oil is better able to handle high heat and shearing forces among others. The additives in the oil, combined with good base stocks are what create a good oil. You can have the best synthetic base oil on the planet with a low grade additive package that will not perform as well as an inexpensive, well formulated oil.

I've herd good things about Klotz, and have at times run some of their oil and didn't have any problems. More important than the brand of oil is using the correct type of oil, for high revving air cooled engines and making sure the mixture is correct.

 

[begleytree]

Begley, that change in idle speed you notice is caused by the different combustion characteristics of the oil and not because Klotz is slicker. Synthetic oil are not slicker as this is a old wives tail.

well, not to argue, but when switching to synthetic oil in a carb'd 4 stroke, you get higher idle speeds as well. My camaro was set at 650rpms on the nose at idle with reg oil, and when I switched to full synthetic, the rpm's went to 900ish, prompting an idle adjustment. perhaps the term 'slicker' is incorrect, but all the variables add up to the same outcome, less wear and friction. Now I realise my example is comparing 2 to 4 strokes, but in all, I'd have to agree to disagree with you.
-Ralph

 

[Highclimber OR]

Klotz is good but watch the ratio

with the stihl especially stick with the 50/1. if you do not it will most likely shorten the life of your saw. especially in the ms-200t which i am very familiar with

 

[Trucks'N Saws]

I don't want to start an argument here, I only want people to be interested enough to dig past the media hype and myths and find real data. The argument that idle speed went up after synthetic oil is a false argument, this therefore because of this (there is a Latin term for this that escapes me at the moment). At any rate, there are numerous reasons for a change in idle. In the case of a four stroke engine that has an oil sump, the viscosity of the oil has more to do with idle speed than the friction of the oil. Just because both oils were label 5w30 does not mean both a the same viscosity. The SAE viscosities on the bottles you buy are a range of viscosities (i.e. 30Wt may be from 10.2-11.4 cst at 100*C, these are just numbers as an example, SAE J300 dictates the exact numbers).

It is worth noting that most, if not all, engine oils are friction modified in some way, which renders the synthetic is more slippery than dino argument null anyway. FM additives can make a cheap group I base oil as slippery as a group V ester based oil, the difference is the serviceable life of the oil at that point (as well as other longevity concerns such as shearing).

The problem with this kind of comparison this thread is trying to make is that to have any real, reliable data you would have to run two exact saws, under the same conditions with two different oils and find out which one wears better. How long does it take to wear out a saw? Also, how hard is it to have two saws operate under the same conditions and keep tract of such performance and make certain that both saws were always run on the correct test oils? What this really all boils down to is, use whatever oil you like. You could chose the oil brand based on the color of the bottle and as long as the correct mix was used most people will never experience any difference in longevity. All my saws have run on Stihl oil because I get a decent deal on it. None of my saws has had an oil related failure. The highest hour saws I have, the 056 and 031 are still on the factory P&C, the 031 is older than I am, Dad bought it new.

Run any reputable oil that is the correct type, mix it at the proper ratio with good gas and be happy.


BTW, I'm still going to use Stihl oil, I like the orange citrus taste

 

[Tzed250]

Glow fuel

Klotz Super Techniplate is what many people mix glow fuel with. While these are not saw engines, they are air cooled two-strokes, and some of them turn in excess of 30,000 RPM's. This could turn out to be another ridiculous oil thread, but many people on AS have stated that Klotz works for them so I would use and be happy. :deadhorse:

 

[ManicMechanic]

Klotz

I have been riding mx for over 20 yrs,tryed em all,was astonished to find that most pros use yamaha 2-r, I run Honda pro in both my KX and RM, I have run Klotz SuperTechniplate.I notice better throttle response,at the cost of more spooge,doesn't seem to burn as clean as the Honda oil,I use Stihl oil in my saws,and heres why,cause they only see a few hours use a year and Stihl oil has stabilizer that cleans your fuel system,doesn't gum up like others,I also like quiksilver oil,I would have to say Klotz is good oil,but I would'nt use it.

 

[TDunk]

I run Klotz R50 in everything i have. My chainsaws, trimmers, dirtbikes etc. You get very little carbon build up, and it's specialy made just for high RPM engines. i Run it at 50:1 and have never had any problems yet. Plus the fact that it smells awesome too.

 

[jhellwig]

I don't want to start an argument here, I only want people to be interested enough to dig past the media hype and myths and find real data. The argument that idle speed went up after synthetic oil is a false argument, this therefore because of this (there is a Latin term for this that escapes me at the moment). At any rate, there are numerous reasons for a change in idle. In the case of a four stroke engine that has an oil sump, the viscosity of the oil has more to do with idle speed than the friction of the oil. Just because both oils were label 5w30 does not mean both a the same viscosity. The SAE viscosities on the bottles you buy are a range of viscosities (i.e. 30Wt may be from 10.2-11.4 cst at 100*C, these are just numbers as an example, SAE J300 dictates the exact numbers).

This is also the way I have come to understand the difference between the two. Synthetic is just more consistent than non synthetic. I also have read that it is made from its "dyno" counterpart.


I was listening to a couple of guy talk about snowmobile injection oil the other day and they said that Klotz would gum up the power valves to the point where they would have to pry them out of the motor to free them and clean them. They also said that scince they have switched to Dannco oil they don't have as many problems. I am not sure what types of oil the use or did use either, I just know what brand. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[bwalker]

I was listening to a couple of guy talk about snowmobile injection oil the other day and they said that Klotz would gum up the power valves to the point where they would have to pry them out of the motor to free them and clean them.

Been there , done that.
Its nice to see a few people in this thread that have done some research on the topic of synthetic oil. Lots of old wives tails out there that die hard.

 

[begleytree]

OK, so I said that my 2 stroke on Klotz didnt wear in the rings, and that my 4 stroke on syn oil had to be idled down, so what part of that is old wives tales? thats first hand experience. want more, search syn oils online, 1Ks of posts about guys having to idle down their bikes (2 and 4 stroke) after switching to syn oils.

It never fails that every oil thread has a few who jump in acting like chemical engeneers, but their profiles make no mention of that fact. funny too, that these same poeple always have second hand info from some guys they know. These same guys would be shouting praise from the rooftops if the thread was about the syn oil THEY use.
just like this post that was hacked up later in quote to leave out some important info:

I was listening to a couple of guy talk about snowmobile injection oil the other day and they said that Klotz would gum up the power valves to the point where they would have to pry them out of the motor to free them and clean them. They also said that scince they have switched to Dannco oil they don't have as many problems

now the poster who quoted this left out info to make his arguement that he doesn't like Klotz oil sound better, but thats not what was said, here it is again, with emphasis (mine) :

They also said that scince they have switched to Dannco oil they don't have as many problems

still have problems no matter what oil they use is the way I read it. so if any oil used causes the same problem, why blame it on the oil? sounds like poor engineering to me, not the oils fault.

and this

I was listening to a couple of guy talk about snowmobile injection oil ....and they said

again, second hand info that the next poster automatically called research, thereby making it appear that much time and effort had went into some studies that the origional poster had made, when he stated plainly that a bunch of guys were standing around BSing and this happened to come up. second hand info from unknown sources. dubious at best. passed off as research by the next poster.
besides, every product made by klotz specifically states that it is pre-mix only, not to be used for oil injection systems.
-Ralph

 

[bwalker]

Begeley, How about doing some research on your own and getting back with us?
I have no doubt you saw a increase in oil, but it wasnt by virtue of the oil being synthetic. Viscosity or additive package maybe?
As for your 372. I have broke many engines in with synthetics and never had a problem like this. Its also never took me very long to break a saw in.
BTW searching online for accurate materials on this subject is nearly impossible.

Also Klotz does indeed make a injector oil for snowmobiles and I USED IT FOR YEARS. It does make a mess of power valves as I have seen it with my own eyes, on my own machines.

 

[begleytree]

Ben, I've done all the research I need to do right behind the handle of a saw for the last 20 years, and nearly 3 years running Klotz through my chainsaws with no problems. If your syn oil had enough friction to wear in rings whereas mine did not, perhaps you should look into a better mixing oil, or save your money and buy dino if you are getting the same results.

Another point that was brought up to me in 3 sep PMs was this: everytime someone asks about mixing oil for chainsaws, you jump in with snowmobiles. snowmobiles are not chainsaws any more than 2 stroke outboards are, and they all require a different type of mixing oil.
Please try to stay on topic, mixing oil is point of contention here to begin with, without bringing watercooled, injection, or other types into the 'mix'.
-Ralph

 

[jhellwig]

I was only stating what I did about klotz because it is my experience with different brands of oils(not types within the brand) in anything that uses oil is that there are ones better than others with all of their products. That is also why I only said what I had head about that brand of oil and that is also why I stated "Take it for what it is worth." and also that I didn't know what type they used. My whole intention of that side story was to convey what I have heard about the brand. And after all that is what anyone is going with on this forum is what they have heard about a product or a brand. All most anyone goes on when they decide to use a product or not is second hand expirence. If people were wanting scientific studies about the products then they would have asked for them.

 

[bwalker]

Ben, I've done all the research I need to do right behind the handle of a saw for the last 20 years,

Thats what I thought.....

and nearly 3 years running Klotz through my chainsaws with no problems. If your syn oil had enough friction to wear in rings whereas mine did not, perhaps you should look into a better mixing oil, or save your money and buy dino if you are getting the same results.

Another point that was brought up to me in 3 sep PMs was this: everytime someone asks about mixing oil for chainsaws, you jump in with snowmobiles. snowmobiles are not chainsaws any more than 2 stroke outboards are, and they all require a different type of mixing oil.

Chainsaws and snowmobiles spec the EXACT same oil so any discussion of one is germain to the other. Much more so than a race saw or a glow engine, wouldnt you say?
As for the break in thing. I dont know what to say other than that the facts dont back you up.....
BTW what do you think is the factory fill oil in the Corvette and a few other cars? A synthetic oil.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx

 

[gatkeper1]

why would you want to use an oil that is not spec'd for the type of engine you are running?
The Klotz oils spec'd for air cooled engines have not even been considered here.
TechniPlate TC-W3 and 50:1 2-Stroke TechniPlate TC-W3
Are the only oils that meet JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD +
And truthfully I would not use them either because they also carry the TC-W spec which is for water cooled marine engines. 2 very different specifications.
Use the oils with the proper specifications and there is no need to worry.
Motul 600 2T is what I get from the local bike shop and I am very pleased with it.
I personally put Klotz in the same catagory as Amsoil but that is JMO

 

[begleytree]

Thats what I thought.....

whats your experience? working at a lakeside campsite for years. so how does that make your experience any different than mine? at least I use the stuff in saws, the original question. as do more people than you could count here who use it, and swear by it. Sometimes I think you own stock in Mobil. BTW, didn't I just say that syn oil in car engines is the way to go? so corvette knows this, what point of yours does that prove? do they use the best or do they use the lowest bidder who's product fits the requirements?
and if snowmobiles and chainsaws are the same engines, why hasn't the powervalve on my 660 gotten fouled by running Klotz? simple, 2 completely different egine types. you always do this during a mixing oil thread, you pull in other engine types and different uses to try to make your point, all the while you have never used the product that we are discussing in the equipment that we are discussing. you don't have a dog in this fight.

gatekeper, whos using tcw3 (outboard oil) in chainsaws?
-Ralph

 

[gatkeper1]

gatekeper, whos using tcw3 (outboard oil) in chainsaws?

Hopefully no one
I guess my post is not really clear.

The only Klotz oils that meet JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD + areTechniPlate TC-W3 and 50:1 2-Stroke TechniPlate TC-W3
And because they are also rated as outboard oil I would not use them.
The oils listed by ky-homelite I would not even consider using because they lack the proper specs.
This doesn't mean others experience with them is not valid, I just won't use them.

 

[trimmmed]

(there is a Latin term for this that escapes me at the moment).

Non Sequitur, perhaps?

 

[zemmo]

Non Sequitur, perhaps?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc