I have used it Klotz oil and more than one product for the umpteenth time.
Lets see those pics. Honestly I would like to see what that engine looks like.
Lets see those pics. Honestly I would like to see what that engine looks like.
Klotz Oil
- Thread starter ky-homelite
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I started using Klotz in sleds back in the early ninties some time and have used it off and on since.
I actually burnt over 20 gallons of the stuff and probably more.
This is getting quit childish and I dont have desire to continue arguing. Use what you like......
I actually burnt over 20 gallons of the stuff and probably more.
This is getting quit childish and I dont have desire to continue arguing. Use what you like......
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
yeah, the pics will post in a day or so, but you're not going to see anything but shiney metal.
yeah, but for the umpteenth time, IN A SAW! we know you are a snomobile freak, and thats cool. were talking saws here. saws only. just saws. no snowmobiles. saws.
nothing but chainsaws
saws only
-Ralph
Trucks'N Saws
ArboristSite Lurker
Post hoc ergo propter hoc was the one I was thinking of. Thanks, needed a good memory jog!
I may be getting into the middle of something here, and I have no hidden agenda as far as oil goes, I've done a lot of research and use what I feel works for me. I only try to share some of information I have found.
The statement was made about idle quality in cars and saws, the two cannot be compared as the oiling systems are completely different and the oils used are completely different. Likewise water cooled engines (snow toy, outboard, etc.) cannot be compared to small CC aircooled engines as they run in different environments under different conditions. Certinly you can use aircooled oils in watercooled engines, but the result will not be as good as if you used the correct oil for the application. Same thing applies to 4 stroke oils to some degree, you can use SAE 40wt diesel oil in a Honda that spec's 0w20, but it doesn't work as well.
Most synthetic oils are really a GPIII base oil, which is severely hydro-cracked petro oil, this is normally done using the iso-dewaxing process that Chevron developed, although there are other methods. The difference between dino GPII/II+ oils and (what is sold as synthetic) GPIII base oil is the time and temperature the oil spends in the reactor. Some oils, like Redline Racing which is a GPV baseoil (ester) is formed from reacting certain alcohols, etc. This is really the only “synthetic” oil other than the GTL oils. GTL are gas-to-liquid products, most using the Fisher Trophes (not sure on the spelling) method (there are other methods however).
Many 2-stroke oils that are labeled synthetic are primarily castor based. Castor oil comes from the castor bean, so it is synthetic in the fact that it does not come from crude oil. However castor oil has long since been abandoned as a sole solution, and it is commonly mixed with other oils and additives to create a much better product.
Some oils are better than others, no doubt. Again, I'll say that I believe that using the reputable oil brand and selecting the correct TYPE of oil is more important than the brand itself. As far as 4 stroke engines goes, the only way to tell for sure how well the oil is performing is to take oil samples and send them to a lab. I've spent many hours researching oils and greases as part of my job. I've spent time at Southwest Research Institute (one of the last Majors that is left), and have had some limited training in tribology so I'm not completely mis-informed about oils.
Opps, almost forgot. Due to the nature of environment, the conditions one person runs their equipment in on a certain oil may work great, and someone else has terrible luck because conditions are different. This is particularly an acute situation when discussing 2-strokes because the oil not only lubes the engine, but is part of the fuel mixture.
If you are so inclinded, try Klotz for a gas can full and if you like the results keep using it. If not, try Redline, or Maxima (Maxima seems to have more sponsorships in racing than does Klotz, but I don't really race anymore and don't keep score. I just ride for fun anymore.) or any other brand. Once you find one you like, run it and sleep happy at night.
Ok, I'll go put on my asbestos underwear and flame suite.
I may be getting into the middle of something here, and I have no hidden agenda as far as oil goes, I've done a lot of research and use what I feel works for me. I only try to share some of information I have found.
The statement was made about idle quality in cars and saws, the two cannot be compared as the oiling systems are completely different and the oils used are completely different. Likewise water cooled engines (snow toy, outboard, etc.) cannot be compared to small CC aircooled engines as they run in different environments under different conditions. Certinly you can use aircooled oils in watercooled engines, but the result will not be as good as if you used the correct oil for the application. Same thing applies to 4 stroke oils to some degree, you can use SAE 40wt diesel oil in a Honda that spec's 0w20, but it doesn't work as well.
Most synthetic oils are really a GPIII base oil, which is severely hydro-cracked petro oil, this is normally done using the iso-dewaxing process that Chevron developed, although there are other methods. The difference between dino GPII/II+ oils and (what is sold as synthetic) GPIII base oil is the time and temperature the oil spends in the reactor. Some oils, like Redline Racing which is a GPV baseoil (ester) is formed from reacting certain alcohols, etc. This is really the only “synthetic” oil other than the GTL oils. GTL are gas-to-liquid products, most using the Fisher Trophes (not sure on the spelling) method (there are other methods however).
Many 2-stroke oils that are labeled synthetic are primarily castor based. Castor oil comes from the castor bean, so it is synthetic in the fact that it does not come from crude oil. However castor oil has long since been abandoned as a sole solution, and it is commonly mixed with other oils and additives to create a much better product.
Some oils are better than others, no doubt. Again, I'll say that I believe that using the reputable oil brand and selecting the correct TYPE of oil is more important than the brand itself. As far as 4 stroke engines goes, the only way to tell for sure how well the oil is performing is to take oil samples and send them to a lab. I've spent many hours researching oils and greases as part of my job. I've spent time at Southwest Research Institute (one of the last Majors that is left), and have had some limited training in tribology so I'm not completely mis-informed about oils.
Opps, almost forgot. Due to the nature of environment, the conditions one person runs their equipment in on a certain oil may work great, and someone else has terrible luck because conditions are different. This is particularly an acute situation when discussing 2-strokes because the oil not only lubes the engine, but is part of the fuel mixture.
If you are so inclinded, try Klotz for a gas can full and if you like the results keep using it. If not, try Redline, or Maxima (Maxima seems to have more sponsorships in racing than does Klotz, but I don't really race anymore and don't keep score. I just ride for fun anymore.) or any other brand. Once you find one you like, run it and sleep happy at night.
Ok, I'll go put on my asbestos underwear and flame suite.
zemmo
ArboristSite Operative
That'd be Fischer/Tropsch
oil is one of those things that everyone seems to have a strong opinion about, but virtually no one has any data on, other than anecdotal. I sent a sample of crankcase oil from my WRX in to be analyzed after about a year and a half and 8000 miles, and the results were that in was good enough to keep running it. This was ester based Redline, probably one of the very best lubricants for high performance 4-strokes.
Same thing in two-strokes. It seems that very few oil-related failures are occurring, no matter what oil or ratio. Still, it's fun to try to find the best product for one's own application. About the one constant I've found in a lot of reading I've done is that EVERYONE agrees that Mobil One lubricants are very good. Whether it be 0-20 in Alaska or MX2T for a New Mexican chainsaw, no one has anything but praise for this line of products. Lubes beat rubes, everytime...
oil is one of those things that everyone seems to have a strong opinion about, but virtually no one has any data on, other than anecdotal. I sent a sample of crankcase oil from my WRX in to be analyzed after about a year and a half and 8000 miles, and the results were that in was good enough to keep running it. This was ester based Redline, probably one of the very best lubricants for high performance 4-strokes.
Same thing in two-strokes. It seems that very few oil-related failures are occurring, no matter what oil or ratio. Still, it's fun to try to find the best product for one's own application. About the one constant I've found in a lot of reading I've done is that EVERYONE agrees that Mobil One lubricants are very good. Whether it be 0-20 in Alaska or MX2T for a New Mexican chainsaw, no one has anything but praise for this line of products. Lubes beat rubes, everytime...
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
and that folks, is the internet equivalent of a blowdown.
and a good post, I might add.
all I ever said was it works for me ( and many others), try it and see if you like it.
but don't write it off just because someone, who never used it in a saw, said not to.
mix it up, fill 'er up, fire her up, idle her down, and go cut wood while smelling the best oil smell to be had! and your saw wil like it too!
-Ralph
Interesting.......
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Trucks'N Saws
ArboristSite Lurker
Remove foot from mouth
My earlier post may have been read differently than I intended. I'm not trying to discredit anyone. I was just trying to share some information about oils in general and I should have explained that better. I wasn't picking on person who's post I used as an example. I apologize to anyone who read it in a more negative tone.
Guess the 7 days a week of 18 hour days at work may be catching up, should have proof read that.
My earlier post may have been read differently than I intended. I'm not trying to discredit anyone. I was just trying to share some information about oils in general and I should have explained that better. I wasn't picking on person who's post I used as an example. I apologize to anyone who read it in a more negative tone.
Guess the 7 days a week of 18 hour days at work may be catching up, should have proof read that.
Tzed250
Addicted to ArboristSite
Many brands
I have used a whole bunch of different oil in two strokes. Yamalube, Bel-Ray, Maxima, Klotz, Castrol, on and on and on. They all work! In my saws I have used Stihl, Yamalube, Klotz, McCulloch, so on and so forth. My Lawnboy has hundreds of hours on it, and it has never had anything but Lawnboy oil in it. It is 13 years old and it runs like new. I use Klotz Super Techniplate in my saws, blower, and brushcutter, because I like castor oil. It has good properties fot two-strokes, has a proven track record, and I like the way it smells. Sure castor based oils have their downsides. The gum up parts easily, they fall out of suspension in really cold weather, they are expensive, and can be hard to mix. That being said, the plus outweighs the minus. Is Klotz the BEST? I dont know. But it makes me feel good in a warm and fuzzy kind of way to know my reciprocating assembly is bathed in it. With all of that being said, I am going to give Stihl's new full sunthetic a try. Sometimes I like to take a new path in this internal combustion adventure that I call my life!
I have used a whole bunch of different oil in two strokes. Yamalube, Bel-Ray, Maxima, Klotz, Castrol, on and on and on. They all work! In my saws I have used Stihl, Yamalube, Klotz, McCulloch, so on and so forth. My Lawnboy has hundreds of hours on it, and it has never had anything but Lawnboy oil in it. It is 13 years old and it runs like new. I use Klotz Super Techniplate in my saws, blower, and brushcutter, because I like castor oil. It has good properties fot two-strokes, has a proven track record, and I like the way it smells. Sure castor based oils have their downsides. The gum up parts easily, they fall out of suspension in really cold weather, they are expensive, and can be hard to mix. That being said, the plus outweighs the minus. Is Klotz the BEST? I dont know. But it makes me feel good in a warm and fuzzy kind of way to know my reciprocating assembly is bathed in it. With all of that being said, I am going to give Stihl's new full sunthetic a try. Sometimes I like to take a new path in this internal combustion adventure that I call my life!
Here is the label of my bottle of Klotz Super Techniplate KL-100.
It states pre-mix ONLY- DO NOT USE IN OIL INJECTION SYSTEMS.
Blends completely with fuel and stays in suspension indefinitely.
MIX AS ENGINE MANUFACTURER Recommends,or Motorcycle and ATV Air cooled engines 20:1 to 32:1.
Being that said, whatever your engine manufacturer recommends is what you can run the oil at, be it 50:1 or 40:1 IMO.
Hope this helped and didn't stir the already muddy waters in this thread.
Label attached below.
It states pre-mix ONLY- DO NOT USE IN OIL INJECTION SYSTEMS.
Blends completely with fuel and stays in suspension indefinitely.
MIX AS ENGINE MANUFACTURER Recommends,or Motorcycle and ATV Air cooled engines 20:1 to 32:1.
Being that said, whatever your engine manufacturer recommends is what you can run the oil at, be it 50:1 or 40:1 IMO.
Hope this helped and didn't stir the already muddy waters in this thread.
Label attached below.
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Interesting.......
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Careful... "Ben Walker Approved" is a registered trademark of Ben Walker"Come on Ben, smile.... :jester: :jester: :jester:
ky-homelite
ArboristSite Operative
Guys, I'm almost sorry for asking this question. As I came and read through the thread today, the comments seemed to get a little heated at times and that was not my intention. That being said, I do appreciate all the comments from everyone. I think I'll try some of the Super Techniplate. I don't mean to discredit anyones opinions or thoughts on other oils, but it's available locally and gets the thumbs up from several of the members here. Worst case scenario, somethings blows and has to get replaced. We all like new toys, right?
