Looking for a decent Chainsaw sharpener?

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Depends.

The temperature that you need to heat steel to to anneal it, is quite high.

What is more common, is that the very fine edge gets overheated, and cools very fast, causing “grinder hardening“. Or an ‘air quench’. Similar to induction hardening.

A sharp file will skip over that like a buttered knife on glass. Fortunately, it is normally possible to grind through that layer, and return to a normal cutter.

Philbert

Then why is it, when you heat any edged tool (saw tooth, knife edge, etc), it almost always looses its ability to hold an edge?

For example- run a full chain and begin to over-heat the bar (bluing it, for example)- that bar tends to wear faster, and the teeth, once sharpened, almost never stay sharp.


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Maintaining the edge is always the best practice.
As mentioned before in the thread, both grinders and hand files have their place.
If you neglect sharpening, shape up with the grinder and keep the hand files and a stump vice on hand in the field to clean the edge with each fuel up.
Also, to mention on the grinder, never go at it full on. Just bump at it and take off a little at a time so it doesn’t blue and shatter the top plate the first time it makes hard contact. I personally will work at a bad tooth slow and come back to it after it’s cooled.


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Then why is it, when you heat any edged tool (saw tooth, knife edge, etc), it almost always looses its ability to hold an edge?

For example- run a full chain and begin to over-heat the bar (bluing it, for example)- that bar tends to wear faster, and the teeth, once sharpened, almost never stay sharp.


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I don’t find that. As noted, when the saw teeth get ‘grinder hardened’, I find them fine after grinding through that layer.

‘Bluing guide bars’ comes up a lot too. Take a brand new, laminated guide bar (any brand). Sand off a little paint near the edge. It will probably have a blue stripe around the rail. It is from induction hardening of the rails (electrical resistance) during manufacturing, not from overheating by the chain.

Same thing with cheap carpenter type saws sold at home centers.

But, to get this thread back on track (!), if you grind chain properly, you don’t overheat the cutters to begin with. Remember that chain companies like STIHL and Oregon make and sell grinders specifically for this purpose.

Philbert
 
I am happy with the 2-1 I have always been in the habit of hitting my chain with the file after each normal use. So far the results have been good with the 2-1. I was using a 7/32 on the 3/8 Stihl chain and I don't believe I am getting down on the tooth as far with the 13/64. This may because of the way the 2-1 sits, I may have been going to far with the old file.
 
I don’t find that. As noted, when the saw teeth get ‘grinder hardened’, I find them fine after grinding through that layer.

‘Bluing guide bars’ comes up a lot too. Take a brand new, laminated guide bar (any brand). Sand off a little paint near the edge. It will probably have a blue stripe around the rail. It is from induction hardening of the rails (electrical resistance) during manufacturing, not from overheating by the chain.

Same thing with cheap carpenter type saws sold at home centers.

But, to get this thread back on track (!), if you grind chain properly, you don’t overheat the cutters to begin with. Remember that chain companies like STIHL and Oregon make and sell grinders specifically for this purpose.

Philbert

We are talking about different situations.

I sharpen a lot of mine blades- the same thing happens- when you get the steel too hot, it turns blue and no longer holds an edge.

As to chainsaw bar- I’m not referring to the hardening color from the factory- I’ve seen bars where some fool ran dull chain hard—- uneven blue, mostly where most pressure was applied. That starts the erosion of the bar in those spots -because that metal is softened by overheating.

The same happens to cutter teeth- it’s why I wouldn’t use any sort of electric grinder or stone for a long time- doesn’t take much to get that tooth hot and it looses its temper.


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You do realize your talking about different metals, and different heating and cooling cycles? I will 100% agree with Philly assessment, and if you care to use the search function you will find we've covered this issue many times. Now I can't speak about a no name econo chain, but stihl, and oregon both exhibit this issue. The cutter gets case hardened. A file won't touch the edge. I have had no issues cutting with one like that, just when it dulls its impossible to sharpen in the field. Now that is not a common occurrence since I've learned to properly use the grinder. I can't comment on the bar wear, as again there are so many bars out there of different material, and I've not had issues with any of the bars I've used. I've ran stihl, husqy, oregon, sugi hara, and tsumura. I am pretty anal about chain sharpness and good oiling.
 
Does the stihl 2 in 1 have interchangeable files to cover all of my chains or do i need ones for each?

The 2-in-1 has guides for different pitch chains, so you need one for each different pitch chain.

The files themselves are replaceable with standard files.


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I prefer hand filing. I can scoop out the gullet and bring the working edge to a wicked point. My chains eat wood. Took me a few years to get it down, but it’s worth the effort!

I don’t like grinders. They get the teeth sharp, but not like free hand filing. Plus, hand filing is fun ! Slow down and learn a bit. Get to know your saw, bar, and chain.
 
I use my grinders to fix a lot of chains that are free hand filed poorly. Not so much fun when you have 12 - 20 of them in a batch.

Philbert
True, I use my grinder when a chain is wrecked or there are a bunch of them. I will also add that I only file the chains for my saws by hand. Everyone else gets the grinder.
 
To reply to the original post, I say go with an Oregon 410-120 Chain Grinder. It's a good grinder. You can change the grinder wheel for different chain types (e.g. 3/8, 3/8 lp, .325, etc.). I prefer to free hand file (because I'm just weird like that), but I love having this thing around for when I hit a nail, cable, or cable clamp that's invisibly embedded in the tree. Reshaping the cutters with a file is doable, but slow. I will add this, some chain gets hard when ground and its forever wed to the grinder afterward. Archer and Carlton chains are like that in my experience. I've never had it happen with Oregon chain. Anyway....the 410-120 is a good grinder for a land owner. I really enjoy mine. Hope this helps.
 
I know this is always an issue that people have varied opinions on. Here is my experience over the last 16 years. And this is based on the fact that I'm almost at the level of obsessive compulsive about getting every cutter perfect and all of them exactly equal, as in measure with a micrometer within a couple thou equal. Almost everything I have is Stihl RS.

Based on reading on here years ago the opinions that filing is the only way to really get the cutters sharp and keep from burning them, I tried hand filing and about every kind of tool or guide I could find, granberg, timberline, 2 in 1, etc. I could never get the results I wanted without spending a whole bunch of time on it, to the point where it got to be such a chore that I'd often just go buy a new chain or two to keep up with the cutting I needed to do. The timberline was about the best I found but still slow. Yes, nothing puts the sharp on a chain like a file but...

After 10 years, I finally broke down and decided to try a grinder. I think the Oregon 520-120 is what I have. The pink wheels that it came with I found to be very difficult and slow to use without getting the cutters hot, so I bought CBN wheels (1 for 3/8 and 1 for 3/8 lopro) almost immediately. At first I noticed too much lateral and radial runout for my taste, several thou of lateral and maybe a thou or two radial. It was enough to really notice when grinding and enough to set up some vibration. This was not the wheel. I trued up the arbor to fix the lateral runout and carefully put a piece of thin tape on the inside edge of the arbor hole of the wheel so that it fit more snug to the arbor for the radial runout. That seemed to get it within a thou on the runout both ways. Based on what I've read others have written I think this is not that uncommon to have the arbor not be true. Not a problem with the pink wheels, after a bit of dressing the edge winds up true but the CBN wheel does not wear so the arbor must be fixed.

I also read about reversible motors. I do need to rewire my grinder to be able to start backwards for the left side teeth but what I've done for now is just spin it backward with a drill with a piece of allen wrench chucked in and into the arbor nut. Once spinning at full speed with the drill, the grinder can be turned on and it will start spinning backwards to be used for the left cutters. There are varied opinions about this too, some people swear it doesn't matter but it's easy and I feel like grinding inward on both sides eliminates a chance for things to be unequal. I was always taught to grind away from any edge, not toward it, because it pulls the heat away from the edge. I'm sure a machinist would be able to tell me if that's true or not.

Once I did that I find I can get the teeth all perfectly sharp and equal without overheating the steel by just using very light feed pressure and being patient. I still do the rakers with gauge and a flat file on an extra bar in a vice. Rakers are fast and easy. The result is a chain that's perfect every time, usually requires very little material removal because the angles are exactly the same every time, and I dare say the edge is comparable to what I could get with a file which is to say razor sharp. They cut at least as good as new, smooth, straight and fast. They stay sharp for at least a couple of tanks in clean wood so I know I'm not screwing up the temper. And it's not a massive time consuming job to grind a few chains and get perfect results every time. So, grinder for me even though yes, I have gotten incredible results with files. With wheels it was north of $500 but has been paid for with my time and chain life I've saved being able to just take a couple thou off every time.
 
Decent grinder for someone just starting out. Clone of an Oregon 511AX. Upgrade the wheels to something a little bit better over time and it’ll work better yet. I don’t get too far from the truck so when one gets dull I just grab another saw. And then I can sharpen them when I’m in the garage

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232688563647
I've had one like that for a couple of years and it does a good job, I think I paid $79 for it off ebay.
 
This is the best value in a basic chain grinder:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/383293681932
Tecomec quality; Tecomec wheels; parts available; full sized wheels; full power motor; better resale value if you decide not to keep it; etc. Des not have the light or 10° 'down angle' option.

Currently out of stock, but worth waiting for - it's something that you will have for a long time. Price has gone up from about $189 to $229, shipped, over the past couple of years. so it could change again, when the shipping channels open up again.

Philbert
 
I've had one like that for a couple of years and it does a good job, I think I paid $79 for it off ebay.
Same. Had it for a couple years. Once you figure it out they work great, same as any grinder. I sold it to a local guy and picked up the super jolly when they were on sale as someone sent me 2200 dl of chains to sharpen and I was looking to speed the operation up
 
Same. Had it for a couple years. Once you figure it out they work great, same as any grinder. I sold it to a local guy and picked up the super jolly when they were on sale as someone sent me 2200 dl of chains to sharpen and I was looking to speed the operation up
For the little bit of sharpening I do, It's been great.
 
I know this is always an issue that people have varied opinions on. Here is my experience over the last 16 years. And this is based on the fact that I'm almost at the level of obsessive compulsive about getting every cutter perfect and all of them exactly equal, as in measure with a micrometer within a couple thou equal. Almost everything I have is Stihl RS.

Based on reading on here years ago the opinions that filing is the only way to really get the cutters sharp and keep from burning them, I tried hand filing and about every kind of tool or guide I could find, granberg, timberline, 2 in 1, etc. I could never get the results I wanted without spending a whole bunch of time on it, to the point where it got to be such a chore that I'd often just go buy a new chain or two to keep up with the cutting I needed to do. The timberline was about the best I found but still slow. Yes, nothing puts the sharp on a chain like a file but...

After 10 years, I finally broke down and decided to try a grinder. I think the Oregon 520-120 is what I have. The pink wheels that it came with I found to be very difficult and slow to use without getting the cutters hot, so I bought CBN wheels (1 for 3/8 and 1 for 3/8 lopro) almost immediately. At first I noticed too much lateral and radial runout for my taste, several thou of lateral and maybe a thou or two radial. It was enough to really notice when grinding and enough to set up some vibration. This was not the wheel. I trued up the arbor to fix the lateral runout and carefully put a piece of thin tape on the inside edge of the arbor hole of the wheel so that it fit more snug to the arbor for the radial runout. That seemed to get it within a thou on the runout both ways. Based on what I've read others have written I think this is not that uncommon to have the arbor not be true. Not a problem with the pink wheels, after a bit of dressing the edge winds up true but the CBN wheel does not wear so the arbor must be fixed.

I also read about reversible motors. I do need to rewire my grinder to be able to start backwards for the left side teeth but what I've done for now is just spin it backward with a drill with a piece of allen wrench chucked in and into the arbor nut. Once spinning at full speed with the drill, the grinder can be turned on and it will start spinning backwards to be used for the left cutters. There are varied opinions about this too, some people swear it doesn't matter but it's easy and I feel like grinding inward on both sides eliminates a chance for things to be unequal. I was always taught to grind away from any edge, not toward it, because it pulls the heat away from the edge. I'm sure a machinist would be able to tell me if that's true or not.

Once I did that I find I can get the teeth all perfectly sharp and equal without overheating the steel by just using very light feed pressure and being patient. I still do the rakers with gauge and a flat file on an extra bar in a vice. Rakers are fast and easy. The result is a chain that's perfect every time, usually requires very little material removal because the angles are exactly the same every time, and I dare say the edge is comparable to what I could get with a file which is to say razor sharp. They cut at least as good as new, smooth, straight and fast. They stay sharp for at least a couple of tanks in clean wood so I know I'm not screwing up the temper. And it's not a massive time consuming job to grind a few chains and get perfect results every time. So, grinder for me even though yes, I have gotten incredible results with files. With wheels it was north of $500 but has been paid for with my time and chain life I've saved being able to just take a couple thou off every time.
I can't figure out why it would matter having all the cutters the same length. I've cut with chains where the left and right cutters were grossly different lengths and it didn't effect the cut at all.
As long as the rakers are appropriately sized I don't see how it could make a difference.
Tom.
 

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