Stihl just started offering the 661 in both standard and wrap handles in the US with a standard carburetor.
M Tronic or Standard carburetor
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Stihl just started offering the 661 in both standard and wrap handles in the US with a standard carburetor.
They offer a non M-tronic 661 as well... If people are dead set against electronic devices, that is an option.
my uncle was flat out pissed by the fact they where introducing autotune into new saws... he owns a battery saw now, after being a logger for years.
My experience is batteries only last 5 years, before replacement or rebuild & most new battery tools are shot by then too. I used to complain that the tools went when the battery did, because old ones outlasted the battery.
I actually started compiling the work done, and my new batteries last longer than the ni-cad, so the tools actually do more work than the old ones before dying.
I haven't burned up a saw I bought new yet, after 7 years.
we are mostly talking pro saws, which are intended to see more use in a year than a non pro saw in 20.
people talking old vehicles; I like my fuel injection.
Every classic carbureted vehicle I have owned has been shot before 150k, suspension worn enough to be sloppy with new parts, motor plain wore out inside from normal use & needing a rebuild.
Sure, my electrical vehicles will probably not last as long at 5k miles a year, but I typically put 50k on them a year. Meaning 2 years and change and it needs overhaul.
my work F-550 has 489k miles on the 6.8 v10, no rebuild.
We bought it with 160k & have beat the tar out of it hauling 60-90 tons of firewood delivery a month, and a bumper pull log trailer that has typically hauled 17klbs of logs at a time.
My previous '78 F-450 had 80k when The company bought it & was immaculate.
I rebuilt it 3x from top to bottom before it hit 210k, and at that point the bushing holes in the very thick, but softer metal frame where so sloppy from daily wear it was unsafe to drive, along with the motor mounts, and the entire drivetrain.
I have bought newer vehicles with 200k on them, and they drive like right off the sales floor... not the old ones.
my uncle was flat out pissed by the fact they where introducing autotune into new saws... he owns a battery saw now, after being a logger for years.
My experience is batteries only last 5 years, before replacement or rebuild & most new battery tools are shot by then too. I used to complain that the tools went when the battery did, because old ones outlasted the battery.
I actually started compiling the work done, and my new batteries last longer than the ni-cad, so the tools actually do more work than the old ones before dying.
I haven't burned up a saw I bought new yet, after 7 years.
we are mostly talking pro saws, which are intended to see more use in a year than a non pro saw in 20.
people talking old vehicles; I like my fuel injection.
Every classic carbureted vehicle I have owned has been shot before 150k, suspension worn enough to be sloppy with new parts, motor plain wore out inside from normal use & needing a rebuild.
Sure, my electrical vehicles will probably not last as long at 5k miles a year, but I typically put 50k on them a year. Meaning 2 years and change and it needs overhaul.
my work F-550 has 489k miles on the 6.8 v10, no rebuild.
We bought it with 160k & have beat the tar out of it hauling 60-90 tons of firewood delivery a month, and a bumper pull log trailer that has typically hauled 17klbs of logs at a time.
My previous '78 F-450 had 80k when The company bought it & was immaculate.
I rebuilt it 3x from top to bottom before it hit 210k, and at that point the bushing holes in the very thick, but softer metal frame where so sloppy from daily wear it was unsafe to drive, along with the motor mounts, and the entire drivetrain.
I have bought newer vehicles with 200k on them, and they drive like right off the sales floor... not the old ones.
Stihl non electronic, might have here in Canada too, have to check it out, I mostly deal with Husqvarna, two of my faller friends just bought new 390's at a good price and warranty, my own saw is a Walkerized 372xpg since I don't live that far away from their shop I do get the odd tired one along with some Simonized ones in for rebuild.
benjo75
ArboristSite Guru
30 day warranty on Stihl. 31 day old saw. Warranty is out. It's in rotation with about 15 other saws being used by me. Probably had less than 8 tanks ran through it. That's a brand new saw.
The 201 is about 25 percent weaker than my 200. I've done a muffler mod and timing advance and its closer. But it is still the last saw I'll grab. And that's behind the Echo and a few electric Huskys. As was said I've only been running saws every day for 30 years so there are more folks with more time than me in this subject who will know more about how a saw performs when they pick it up. This is just my experience with the newer saws vs the older reliable saws where you can adjust the carb in 10 seconds and be on your way.
benjo75
ArboristSite Guru
I'm not against technology. Just work the bugs out before selling to the working man. Don't use us as guinea pigs. I sold my 77 Jeep rock crawler and upgraded to a 98. Fuel injected. It was better and still have had zero problems with it. I wouldn't go back. It the product is better, I'll buy it. If you're going backwards, as in the case of the new saws I've bought, then I'll fight it. Make a decent, reliable product that doesn't have issues such as has been made for the past 30 years and things are good. Make a newer more expensive product that gives trouble and people probably aren't going to take to it. Do the research, development and testing and work the bugs out before pawning these new products off on the consumer under the guise of "better". If it's better then I want it. If it's worse then I don't.
What country?
my company's 441 had 1 yr warranty, and I was very certain to make sure the 661 I have does as well used professionally... haven't needed it, on the 661 but it (was) there. Did need it on the 441, and they honored it (didn't get it right, but didn't us charge either) even though it was a couple months out of warranty.
90 day warranty on saw. Entire Mtronic system falls under emissions. Which has a much longer warranty. 2yrs.
Maybe you should do some research and you might find your dealer is part of the problem.
you need to become a steal rep!!!!
benjo75
ArboristSite Guru
United States. Sheridan Arkansas. Stockton Power Equipment.
benjo75
ArboristSite Guru
When I called them about it thay said it wasn't under warranty and they couldn't look at it for 4 weeks because they were too busy. That's great customer service right there.
I thought it was 2 years.
drf255
BAD CAD
I believe there is a different warranty period between commercial and homeowner Stihl sales.
Chris1044
ArboristSite Member
Emissions warranty is dictated by the EPA. Fuel system falls under that.
This has been common in the automotive world since 1996. The rest of the ICE world is just catching up.
There's a place for carbs, there's a place for electronics. It is hard to refute the data showing more peak efficiency, BSFC, specific power output, etc on engines which have been enabled specifically due to electronics as well as various racing records enabled by the same.
If there's an issue with Mtronic, it lies within Stihl's validation process...so the real question is what does Stihl validate to? Likely whatever the warranty period is...
KodiakForge
ArboristSite Lurker
Ask any 7.3 Powerstroke owner and they all tell you they carry a cps sensor in the glove box because it’ll leave you stranded on the side of the road if it’s not working properly and the computer can’t see the crank rotation despite the fact that the truck is cranking over and it physically is moving. Just saying.
Also look at all new diesels having issues with dpf filter clogging and causing issues/costing fortunes to clean or replace. Its the same old EPA story and a major head ache. Saws are completely different than vehicles and really they should never be compared with each other. That being said saws should never be computerized simply to optimize a process that takes a few seconds / under a minute to resolve. These kinds of ingenuities have caused people to lose self reliance and independence by leaning on problematic technologies to “make their lives easier”. IMHO go ahead and make the technology available to those who want or feel they need it but don’t eliminate the old options for the rest of us who don’t chose to live that way. Look at the 500i it stock next to ported saws still is not really a major gain if at all. I’d rather have a ported saw with adjustable carb than the new injection crap.
KodiakForge
ArboristSite Lurker
Funny you make the mr. potato head comment when you made a very silly comment about mix oil blasting people using a heavier oil mix. So are you mr. potato head then?
It’s funny you
KodiakForge
ArboristSite Lurker
There is and if your commercial they won’t cover ****! Im going through it now on a saw I bought in March and has been nothing but a problem thats why I’m on here now trying to figure out what I can do on my own since m tronic is garbage and unreliable. While I’m at it has anyone retro modded a 201tc into basically a 200t? I’m curious about that. My 260, 360, 362 w/adjustable carb, 461, 066 & 372xpw have all been flawless but this year I bought a 201tc and 362c and am thoroughly unimpressed. I’m just counting the days until the 362 ***** the bed like the 201 did. Ethanol free since day one. I’ve been told by a few different dealers it’s my fuel my mix I’m idling too long this and that though nobody has ever opened the saw up or truest diagnosed anything they are just trained at their classes to regurgitate the garbage they are taught. I grew up with saws and dirt bikes from a very young age (life on a cattle farm) joined forest service at 18 and became a sawyer I can run saws and am beside myself when I’m told “your doing something wrong” I’m not claiming to be an expert but I’m not new to engines of many varieties and I’m certainly not doing anything that I’ve been accused of doing by dealers who refuse to stand by the products they are selling. If anyone has any tips about the m tronic crap I’m all ears as it’s new to me and I need it fixed. Just received some service manuals so thanks a ton to those guys.
Chris1044
ArboristSite Member
I get it - tech for the sake of tech and adding cost is ********. One could argue its not needed on saws; unfortunately our government - along with numerous others around the world - feel that anything combusting petroleum derived fuel need to achieve a certain level of emissions.
I present to you the 500i. Wait another 10 years when catalysts and O2 sensors start showing up. Don't hate the players, hate the game.
Also...have data showing a carbed engine with points and condenser can out perform the same base engine with modern tech? Would love to see it, because as someone that has been in engine development at an OEM racing level for a decade I havent. There is a reason aftermarket FI systems are being unpfit to every aftermarket engine out there....Holley Sniper, etc. Change or die. Sucks, but that is reality. Automotive tech will only integrate more and more into small engines as they find a way to reduce cost / achieve requirements necessary to sell them in various markets.
There's always the 044 or 066...unfortunately for those producing saws the various markets state they need to achieve performance metrics that these can't achieve
I will be honest and admit I have never used or even closely examined the new saws.When you purchase a new saw why cant they just give you stick with the code reader for the saw and you could repair it at home.John Deere and the other big companies have been in court for years saying no one should be able to alter the performance of their equipment.Basiclly they are saying you dont own the equipment you only have the right to use it
Kash
Kash
KodiakForge
ArboristSite Lurker
Is your question about data in reference to automotive or to saws? “
Also...have data showing a carbed engine with points and condenser can out perform the same base engine with modern tech? Would love to see it, because as someone that has been in engine development at an OEM racing level for a decade I havent.”
As I stated automotive and 2 strokes ought to not be compared as they are different beasts. And to clarify I made a comment about ported carbureted 2cycle engines achieving same or better performance than a stock 500i. Check out hotsaws101 on youtube if you’d like to see examples. As for automotive that is a different story and I was not referring to that world. I don’t believe in the whole emissions propaganda, Simple reason being, countries all pollute on a much larger scale and it’s acceptable for them to pollute so long as it’s can paid for it. but we can’t have a saw that works good? Doesn’t make sense to me. I’ll keep my IDIs and early Powerstrokes and older saws the rest of the world can leave me behind with them I’m fine with that.
Also...have data showing a carbed engine with points and condenser can out perform the same base engine with modern tech? Would love to see it, because as someone that has been in engine development at an OEM racing level for a decade I havent.”
As I stated automotive and 2 strokes ought to not be compared as they are different beasts. And to clarify I made a comment about ported carbureted 2cycle engines achieving same or better performance than a stock 500i. Check out hotsaws101 on youtube if you’d like to see examples. As for automotive that is a different story and I was not referring to that world. I don’t believe in the whole emissions propaganda, Simple reason being, countries all pollute on a much larger scale and it’s acceptable for them to pollute so long as it’s can paid for it. but we can’t have a saw that works good? Doesn’t make sense to me. I’ll keep my IDIs and early Powerstrokes and older saws the rest of the world can leave me behind with them I’m fine with that.
KodiakForge
ArboristSite Lurker
Go figure.
