Mechanical gin pole

[rbtree]

DDM:

great idea,

Been done before!!:

http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/logging_advisor/manual/yarding/cableyardingsystem.html

 

[rbtree]

You guys really have your creative juices flowing!!

How about some talk about real world practicality, besides about whether a workable unit could be developed.

I can see applications in a hazard, structurally unsound tree, where slam dunking wood into rigging can't be safely done, just like the technical maple we just finished. I can't see any other reason to employ the unit, due to the time involved in setup and moving it down.

On the maple, if we had had no safe drop zone, we would have had to make the customer sign a form releasing us from liability, in case of damage from free dropping the wood. 150 foot crane would have been the only other option, if it even could have been set up.

Back to unit design, I can see it working practically only with upright, fairly smooth and straight trunks. Wood bulges, or off vertical wood would really complicate setup.

Just build a safe drop zone, and let em fly.......

 

[Kevin]

Dave,
If you plan on using a balloon you might as well have fun with it.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Keep in mind RB, that different locations have different challenges. The things you encounter in Seattle are very different than what I run into here, or TheTreeSpyder sees in Florida.

I often run into trees that have been growing between the house and garage for years, decks built around trees, or elaborate landscaping in small yards. The top is easy, it's the chunking down the spar that sucks. Imagine a roof overhang, cut around a spar. It's not always about 75 tires and some sheets of plywood.

The raising of the tool should be simple. Some small cord and a pulley would do. This should also work to lower the device, after each cut.

Bumps or roughness in the trunk should not be much of a problem, nor a slant in the spar.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I think you shoul fairlead the lowering line somewhere near the base. So that all the force is not at the top.


I think that after a leraning curve is mastered the thing would not be a big pain to install. Set a pully haul up the base strap it in while the gound is holding it. Run up the pole...

 

[DDM]

Kevin, LMAO

Mike, I like the Design Which I sometimes
ignor the engineering Rule K.I.S.S
Which is of course Keep it simple stupid.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Here it is in use:

 

[Kevin]

Mike,
Will the port a wrap swivel?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think in the name of safety, simplicity and efficiency; i would throw in another double strapping mechanism, interchangeable, and make pole adjustble.

Where by you would set bottom pair of straps, low enoght that you could make 3 pulls with it before having to move it, lowering top extendable portion, pinning and go again. The extra pair of straps would be to stabilize top part of gin pole, right under first cut. Once first piece was down, release newest strap mechanism from pole (not log)contract pole, pin, then newest strap mechanism now pins in as load, draw up 'top set' that was on first load and set under cut, go again. The next time when you reloaded you wouldn't need to retrieve 3rd strap set, as you would have pole fully contracted.

In this way you wouldn't have to take main pole anchor off tree except every 3rd drop. Should be safer and quicker i would think. Maybe get 20' without totally resetting?

Still a lil'leary though!

 

[rbtree]

Mike your last drawing raises a resistance issue. Any tension on the line would make it much harder to push off the piece sideways. No problem til weights increase. If what I'm invisioning is correct, all i can see is a normally routine process made difficult. Now if the pole had a t or preferably triangle shape, it might work, with a slot for pwrap at top of each top triangle apex. Go to work, you CAD designer wannabe, you!!!

Now the much more complicated design swing arm lift would work,but it too, same as my above idea, would apply lots of side stresses to the anchor points, which might tend to shift.

 

[rbtree]

Hey mike, re your post a while back,

With real estate at a premium in the water and mountains bound Puget Sound region, we have many small lots, plus skads of affluent multi million $ homes, (many owned by now busted dot commers), as well as many steep sloped properties. We do have considerable spreading trees, and certainly many much larger than up your way.

I'm certainly enjoying this thread, and all the creativity and brainstorming, and hope to see some physical results someday.

However, I still only see three possible practical uses, if a workable design could be produced:

1: when the room to drop a piece even two or three feet doesnt exist.
2: When wood structure doesnt allow lowering stresses.

3: When a tree has no top, and lots of long laterals with targets below. For that, you would need a tall gin, but only for lifeline. Light rigging might be ok, but guys would be needed, and the climber would have to safety in to the limbs, just what he is trying to avoid.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Kevin asked:

<I>"Will the port a wrap swivel?"</I>

Uhh, I guess. Does it matter? I was thinking I could just drop it in the top of the boom. When I was done, I could just lift it out and put it back in the tool box.

Rb mentioned:

<I>"We do have considerable spreading trees, and certainly many much larger than up your way. "</I>

Removal of spreading trees would not be enhanced by this tool, it's for spar removal. Spreading trees can be lowered off themselves.

Large trees, like you have out west could be problematic, this tool is limited by it's size and strength. Can it handle a 500,000 pound Douglas Fir in one bite? Nope.

Rb also noted:

<I>". Any tension on the line would make it much harder to push off the piece sideways."</I>

This tool is for guys who can handle a saw and a 500 pound hunk of wood, at least enough to cut through and push it off the spar. If this is too hard to do with this device, then it's too hard to do with a pulley(the old fashioned way).

Now to Spyder:

Draw me a picture, so I can critic you.
If I get your post right you want a 20' gin pole????? Yikes!

 

[rbtree]

Mike, are you thinking of cutting a long, say over 4 foot piece. if so, then you need to stop and think of how the overhead rigging line would make it difficult to control the piece. Whole different set of physics come into play, when you start putting even a slight backward or sideways resistance on the piece. Think it over, try it with a small model, maybe I'm missing something or overestimating the resisatance. That is why I suggested a triangle shaped device to allow more support till the piece is about off the stump.

Re trees with no top. I was back to the gin pole concept.

Cheers

Rog

 

[FBerkel]

Gin Poll

Beefeater, Tanqueray, or Bombay? (Vote for one only)

 

[FBerkel]

But, seriously, folks:

I've enjoyed the brainstorming. The debate on Mike's idea seems to center on how to get a large (big enough to make the whole thing worthwhile) piece off the spar without putting too much side load on the gin pole? Rb notes that too much side load causes the pole to loosen, potentially break. A round pole pivots, but would be even less secure against trunk. Square tube seats better, but can't pivot.

What about some kind of extremely strong turntable (think of the base of a bucket truck), on the scale of the four inch square tube? Does such a thing exist? If the top section had a block instead of porta wrap, and lower down a lever arm sticking out at a right angle, climber could complete his cut (with the aid of a wedge) and (with tension supplied from below) grab the arm and pivot the piece off. Probably want to strap piece onto pivoting section, keep it from swinging out. each section has dogs to dig in to wood, trucker straps with binders to keep it from slipping.

I could see this thing coming in handy once in a while. Would have to be very conservative in estimating log weight--danger to climber is extreme.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i was very backward about speaking up about 'tech. removal' so as not to be taken that way, until Rog. did openly himself; and then took comments very openly. Very impressive. One hell of a job in many respects!

Yes, 20' is a lil long! i'm not too sure about this pole anyway; and 20' is a lil unrealistic. But, 3 connection points of double straps that all interchange, isn't. The top set would be for the load, the next 2 sets would be to anchor the unit to tree, after a drop was made, the pole should be able to slide down. What was the middle set of straps become the load attatchment, what was the bottom set become the middle, the pole would just slide down and get pinned. Then what was the load strap gets sent back up and becomes the bottom set. In this way, once the thing was on the tree, you wouldn't have to totally detatch it and wrestle with it, just slide it down as the tree supported the unit, until you repinned it.

A#1 i'm not really hear to critique anyone; just brainstorm; and now bow out as you are obviously thinking of someone else..

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Spyder, I didn't mean I wanted to maliciously criticize you, I just meant a picture would help me understand your concept. I apologize if you misinterpreted the intention of my comments.

I also want to address the safty issue, again. If the boom is low, even lower than the top of the piece, and the climber is tied above the straps, help me understand where the danger is. Are we talking about the tool breaking and hitting the obstacles on the ground?

As far as pushing the log off the spar being hard, I don't know what to say. I guess if you tried to push it against the boom, it would stop, but if you pushed it just to the side of the boom, it would fall right over. If the rope was too tight just have the ground man give an inch or two of slack.

As for the turntable, it may be nice, and that's what was incorporated into the design with the round tube, but because the pole was now straight, I felt rotation was unnecessary.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Also keeping the variables down in the initial incarnation is a good thought too. Leave the improvements to the Mark II III and beyond. ( or would that be the Mike II )

 

[Mike Cantolina]

Any progress made on this since '02?

How about some type of heavy duty fixe pulleys along the backside of the channel to run the rig line through? So you can lock the line in with clevis or biner?



Mike C

 

[ropensaddle]

Man some of you have a lot of time to get wood down
must pay great in your area. I have thought of a hinge
since the eighties but would not be fast enough and
would wear you out pulling it up. I have a few different
ideas but am thinking of patenting so wont mention
I have always considered a gin pole handy on a truck
for heavy lifting and winching I have an old f350 that
is set up with in and out pto winch and heavy flat bed
I want to affix a gin pole to it but want it adjustable
and am wandering if drill casing or schedule 80 pipe
would be strong enough to lift say four tons?