Mini skid

[gr8scott72]

Snow? Ha! What's that?!? We had a record breaking TWO snows this whole past winter!! I'm talking about maybe 4" the first time that was melted the next day for the first snow and the other lasted a couple of days and was as messy as I can ever remember it here. I took my whole family and sis's family out in my 4x4 Excursion driving in the snow. Probably 8" or so that time.

The first time I ever drove my RC30 was in Michigan. I drove all the way from Mississippi to go pick it up. Never buying equipment again without laying my eyes AND hands on it.

There was friggin snow everywhere. How do y'all live with that white stuff? Crazy!

Does NOT drive well in snow but I doubt it will ever see any ever again. (We average one snow fall about every 6 or 7 years.)

It is unbelievable on the grass. Does just as good as advertised. Only time it will rut the grass is when it's not level and the side of the track takes a chunk out of the turf. The tracks themselves just slid over the grass.

Terrible in mudd also although it does do good in wet grass and is still very gentle on it.

Never had it on sand but I don't think it would be that bad. Oh, wait. I leveled some sand for where I put my swimming pool last month. Does just fine on sand.

There is a video of the RC30 and RC50 green tracks on youtube which shows its traction in loose dirt along with doing donuts on a golf course fairway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULRjWtjj2g

 

[sawinredneck]

The RC-30 is a fine machine, not sure I like the 50 though. I watched a show how they made them and the gas tank is part of the sides under the ROPS, I don't think I like that myself.

John: The mini is by no means perfect, it's not supposed to be, Think of it as a "stop gap",it's better than beating your crew to death on the jobs you can't justify sending in the "big guns". It turns a one man show into a three man crew. The only times it stops is when it's out of gas,or I stop. Yes, the big machines are better, sometimes. But how much does it wear you out climbing in and out of the cab of a Bobcat to throw things in the bucket? It wears me out! The ride on is easy and as soon as I get back on it's ready to go.
It will not pick up a large tree and throw it on a truck, thats not it's purpose. It gets in and out of a gate, it carries a decent load and you are not beat at the end of the day. It is not the answer for everyone, it's not supposed to be.

I've burried mine in sand, that was a long day!
I have also gotten it stuck in 6" of snow a few times. I could get it out with the bucket then at least! It's by no means the ideal machine, but what it does, it does well.

 

[John464]

sawinredneck,

I own the RC50 and have a grapple on it. There is no getting out of the machine. I cut large trees in 12' to 14' logs and stack them real high with straps holding them over the sides a few feet. The sides on my dump trucks are 48". I hold about 3-4 cord of logs in each truck.

I need to do a video of how quick i can load truck/do a big tree. In and out and on to the next one, and no grass gets damages with the turf tracks(if yo operate it properly) Now it is a $40,000 machine, but if you finance it should be only a difference of an extra $500 or so a month. That extra $500 would be earned in one day since it is 20x faster/stronger/lifts higher than any mini. If I had a mini I would make atleast $10,000 less per month than with a machine that kicks ass. Like I said I agree with tnt's spending mindset, even though he sells mini's, he is definitely is not picking up those trees on his former business' website pics with a mini. He is a smarter business man than that!

 

[tntree]

sawinredneck,

I own the RC50 and have a grapple on it. There is no getting out of the machine. I cut large trees in 12' to 14' logs and stack them real high with straps holding them over the sides a few feet. The sides on my dump trucks are 48". I hold about 3-4 cord of logs in each truck.

I need to do a video of how quick i can load truck/do a big tree. In and out and on to the next one, and no grass gets damages with the turf tracks(if yo operate it properly) Now it is a $40,000 machine, but if you finance it should be only a difference of an extra $500 or so a month. That extra $500 would be earned in one day since it is 20x faster/stronger/lifts higher than any mini. If I had a mini I would make atleast $10,000 less per month than with a machine that kicks ass. Like I said I agree with tnt's spending mindset, even though he sells mini's, he is definitely is not picking up those trees on his former business' website pics with a mini. He is a smarter business man than that!

Man I love big equipment. I was just speaking to all the financing skeptics out there that are still manhandling trees. Minis are so cheap you are financialy stupid to pay labor day in day out to forward brush & logs.

Forwarding machine, I call them this as my crews just staged the debrie at the Curb. I had a 44 yd clam trk servicing the crews loading trees.

John464, if you started a second crew wouldn't it be alot easier to give them a mini then another RC?
I ran 6 crews fully equiping them gets mighty spendy, and I didnt want any of my men humpin brush and logs cuz the swinger was on another job. The minis made me lots of $$
I was running 4 minis and 1 articulating machine.

 

[John464]

Man I love big equipment. I was just speaking to all the financing skeptics out there that are still manhandling trees. Minis are so cheap you are financialy stupid to pay labor day in day out to forward brush & logs.

Forwarding machine, I call them this as my crews just staged the debrie at the Curb. I had a 44 yd clam trk servicing the crews loading trees.

John464, if you started a second crew wouldn't it be alot easier to give them a mini then another RC?
I ran 6 crews fully equiping them gets mighty spendy, and I didnt want any of my men humpin brush and logs cuz the swinger was on another job. The minis made me lots of $$
I was running 4 minis and 1 articulating machine.

tnt I run 3 crews. each crew does something different though. 1 is setup for large removals, 1 is pruning and small removals, the other is site/clearing work(where even bigger machines play) I do sometimes send the RC to go load logs for the other crew that may be doing a residential removal along with their norm. If I added a 4th crew for large removals Id buy another RC50 that would run circles around a mini. What is an extra $500 a month for a crew thats bringing in 15k+ a week? Set that crew up with a mini instead and they'd be lucky to hit 10k.

I had a swinger also. Way too slow and top heavy. If you set your crews up with a mid to large track loader instead you would of made even more money, guaranteed!

 

[John464]

tnt I just went to your equipment site to see if you were just selling mini type equipment and saw you also have the boss and ceo grapples on the mustang loaders. You can get something done with those! Why didnt you use that mustang loader w/ boss instead of a swinger or gehl? was it the turf concerns?

 

[chipr]

I'll chime in here. As a former tree company owner, I started it from scratch and sold it for a tidy 801K(semi-retirement joke) 26 years later. Heres some of my used Equip experience and advice to you testosterone filled tree biz owners.

In my early years I always went cheap, and used with equipment. As I got older and a little wiser I discovered that a little Debt and new equipment made me more money with less headaches than used old stuff.
That said I did score some decent used Equip in my early years that made me good money, sadly that was not the story for the majority of my used equip purchases. Broke Equip cost me jobs, and big repair bills, and made me a midnite mechanic more times than I ever wanted to be.
I strongly believe if I would have bought new Equip when I had the need and the work to keep it busy, Success would have come faster than 26 years

This is easier said then done when you want a new $140,000 Clam truck, or a $100,000 bucket and your a young pup with no bank track record. As great as though machines are the Mini has as much potential to make money save time and for a much smaller investment of 15 to 20 thousand. To many guys miss this small economic lesson and pay out much more money in labor and sweat and effort. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar If I was to start all over in the Biz again A mini would be standard Equip, just like a Pickup, a Trailer, 020, 44, & 66. The Bucket trk and Clam will have to wait for more growth.

If you are good arborist and a competent bizniz man and you find yourself and your men draggin brush and cartin logs outa backyards by hand 2 or 3 times a week. Get Smart finance a new mini - concentrate on doin the tree work, you won't regret it and you'll be able to afford the bucket, stumper, & clam much faster.

Dave's 2 cents, just another Tree Guy

Well, I've been tossing the mini idea around for a while now, since I first saw one on a construction site. My questions include: when hauling brush, are you tarping it and dragging it with the mini? I deal with alot of narrow gate issues, as is common. Is the smooth trax system the one to go straight to instead of the other? Is it trax only to go with and not wheels (if they are out there)? Like all of us, I don't want to trash the lawn anymore than I can waiver it out in the bid. The log moving issue is obvious. I happen to be one of those who has a fleet of heavily used equipment. New in my world is just new to me. Doesn't bother me a whole bunch, and credit issues have me limited. I try to put on at least one piece of equipment each year, and this is the year that I'm after a mini, and or eagle/spider lift.

 

[treemandan]

they have a safety so that would only happen in a real bizarre senario. I have a Bobcat MT52, and I prefer the walk behinds. The first one I demoed was the vermeer. I dont like being stuck in that little hollow area. That particular unit is a little sqirrely and when I first got on it I was next to my big dump truck with the gate down. Almost broke my hip cuz i was stuck in that hollow spot.

As with the saftey switch on my old lawn tractor seat the one on my Dingo don't work. It came that way.
I have run over my toe walking beside it and it could be very easy to back yourself into something. My Dingo doesn't have half of the stuff most other do in the way of controls, just a rudder and joystick.
So YES, I think you could very easily hurt yourself real bad with one of these things if you are not careful. I suppose that goes with many things as well.
I can either fold the rear standing platform up out the way or fold it down to ride it. One of favorite attachments is the york rake.

 

[tntree]

tnt I just went to your equipment site to see if you were just selling mini type equipment and saw you also have the boss and ceo grapples on the mustang loaders. You can get something done with those! Why didnt you use that mustang loader w/ boss instead of a swinger or gehl? was it the turf concerns?

Turf concerns for sure, can't tell you how many clients bummed .....your going to bring that big thing on my lawn? Never heard that with a Mini clients don't freak cuz its the size of a lawn mower. Plus there so small I had one ride on the chipper - Didn't have to have another truck and trailer chase that crew. (see 25gonchipperjpg.)
I just took on the Mustang line with my son a year ago, I did run a swinger and a big skid(skid only in the winter) with both bucket and skid grapples. I would never choose a track or wheel skid over my articulating machines for my clients yards. Plus I had a lot less worries with my employees on a mini than on the big forwarder.

Mini's can't compete with 50 horse machines, but it can kick a$$ on 2 $25,000 a year groundsman for doing backyard removals. (No offense to the hardworking "Professional" Grunts out there) I ran a Clam Truck for loading trucks and it will kick A$$ on any skid, track, A300, or swinger when it comes to loading and PACKING!.

The walk behind machines scare me probably because we ran Branch Manager skidding grapples and you are always pulling stuff out in reverse. Got to say its much safer in reverse and you get to ride and when you are lazy like me or my employees thats a plus.
Bobcat MTs are cool except they don't use the universal Mt plate system that all the other models use and they are walk behinds there sulky sucks in reverse or over curbs.

chipr
My questions include: when hauling brush, are you tarping it and dragging it with the mini?
Chec out the pix
I'm after a mini, and or eagle/spider lift
Both worthy pieces of Kit in your equip arsenal.

 

[John464]

Turf concerns for sure, can't tell you how many clients bummed .....your going to bring that big thing on my lawn? .

You owe it to yourself to test out the ASV turf edition skid loaders. If I was an equipment dealer I would definitely carry their brand. I have a feeling you will be impressed. The big loader and turf friendly combo make it well suited for a residential tree care op working on turf grass.

 

[sawinredneck]

Even the lugged tracks, if driven right, are better on the grass. Yes, I think VERY highly of the RC50. I am not as sold on the larger machines yet.
I have access to three full size machines, a Case 1845C, a Bobcat 763 and a New Holland LS170. Most times they are too large for me and too large to get in and out of backyards. So more often than not I did the work by hand.
I am a small operation. Most times it's me alone. But the job I may have up to three others. But I am on and off the machine a LOT. Getting in and out of the cab of the larger machines wears me out fast and kills a lot of time for my needs.
I can easily load my trailer with brush or wood as well as my pickup. The working height doesn't affect me, but I knew it's limitations, and my needs going into this.
No, it will never compete with he larger machines, but anything you can do with them, you can do with a mini, it just might take a little longer. Sometimes it goes a little faster, it just depends on the job!
For your crews it sounds like you have the ticket. For me, the mini turns ME into a three man crew and I am not hammered at the end of the day.

 

[arbor pro]

even the lugged tracks, if driven right, are better on the grass. Yes, i think very highly of the rc50. I am not as sold on the larger machines yet.
I have access to three full size machines, a case 1845c, a bobcat 763 and a new holland ls170. Most times they are too large for me and too large to get in and out of backyards. So more often than not i did the work by hand.
I am a small operation. Most times it's me alone. But the job i may have up to three others. But i am on and off the machine a lot. Getting in and out of the cab of the larger machines wears me out fast and kills a lot of time for my needs.
I can easily load my trailer with brush or wood as well as my pickup. The working height doesn't affect me, but i knew it's limitations, and my needs going into this.
No, it will never compete with he larger machines, but anything you can do with them, you can do with a mini, it just might take a little longer. Sometimes it goes a little faster, it just depends on the job!
For your crews it sounds like you have the ticket. For me, the mini turns me into a three man crew and i am not hammered at the end of the day.

+1

 

[prentice110]

As with the saftey switch on my old lawn tractor seat the one on my Dingo don't work. It came that way.
I have run over my toe walking beside it and it could be very easy to back yourself into something. My Dingo doesn't have half of the stuff most other do in the way of controls, just a rudder and joystick.
So YES, I think you could very easily hurt yourself real bad with one of these things if you are not careful. I suppose that goes with many things as well.
I can either fold the rear standing platform up out the way or fold it down to ride it. One of favorite attachments is the york rake.

The safety is a linkage connected to the drive control so its not an electric switch that will fail. But now I will admit its not fool proof. I have about 280 hours on my MT52, and I personally put at least 275 of those on her. Just the other day I had my first backing into something incident. Got lucky. Wasnt sore for too long.

 

[codog]

Grapple

The bobcat rep. called me the other day saying that Bobcat closed their plant in Mexico where my grapple was supposed to be made and delivered to me over a month ago for my MT-52. Rep told me his contact said I should have it in about a week. I'm wondering how thats going to happen with the factory closed. I think the rep. is a good honest guy, but I think his contact is stringing him along. Rep is just stuck between his boss and myself.
Part of the reason I didn't buy a Boxer was because their a 6 year old company and I was worried about crap like this.
I'm losing money by not having it !

 

[tntree]

The bobcat rep. called me the other day saying that Bobcat closed their plant in Mexico where my grapple was supposed to be made and delivered to me over a month ago for my MT-52. Rep told me his contact said I should have it in about a week. I'm wondering how thats going to happen with the factory closed. I think the rep. is a good honest guy, but I think his contact is stringing him along. Rep is just stuck between his boss and myself.
Part of the reason I didn't buy a Boxer was because their a 6 year old company and I was worried about crap like this.
I'm losing money by not having it !

Silly CoDog, Not to worry about Boxer, aftermarket parts are readily available if they ever did go under - Does the MT come with a 3 year warranty?

A mexican Grapple? Why not an American made Branch Manager Skid grapple

 

[codog]

Mt-52

Didn't know it ahead of time, but rep said Mexico is where Bobcat grapples are made. I was also surprised and a little disappointed. I figured they were made in the states.
And as far as the 3 year warrenty; maybe I could find parts but what happens to the warrenty if Boxer did go bust?
I was looking at Boxer before my Bobcat. If you could have met the dealer I was dealing with, you might have asked yourself, as I did, Will Boxer let anyone sell their product? I loved the Boxer when I tried it out, I probably would have been very happy with it, but there were other things that I needed to consider.
I wish I had the Bobcat grapple I ordered, sometimes think about the Boxer, but I'm lovin this MT-52. It's still too early, but so far I think I made the right decision.
I don't think its too late to cancel my order, so could you answer a question for me? I load into a dump trailer. Wouldn't I be losing at least 12 inches of lift with the Branch Manager?

 

[arbor pro]

I don't think its too late to cancel my order, so could you answer a question for me? I load into a dump trailer. Wouldn't I be losing at least 12 inches of lift with the Branch Manager?

That was precisely my question for dave when I looked into the BM grapple. My mt-50 with bucket grapple lifts higher than the BM does. IMO, the BM is better suited for feeding chippers and butt-loading log sections into the back of a truck. For loading a dump trailer like I do and like you are describing, a bucket, tine or root grapple is better suited as it will lift higher and allow you to better position debris by using the bucket or tines to push the debris where you want it.

Now, if dave would like to bring me a BM grapple to demo, i would be happy to take back my analogy should the BM outperform my bucket grapple for loading into the dump trailer. Unfortunately, I can't afford to spring for the $2k for the BM without knowing for sure that it would load the dump trailer as well or better than my bucket grapple does. I have no doubt that it would work well for forwarding debris but my concern, like codog's is how well it would load a dump trailer compared to a bucket or tine grapple.

 

[tntree]

Didn't know it ahead of time, but rep said Mexico is where Bobcat grapples are made. I was also surprised and a little disappointed. I figured they were made in the states.
And as far as the 3 year warrenty; maybe I could find parts but what happens to the warrenty if Boxer did go bust?
I was looking at Boxer before my Bobcat. If you could have met the dealer I was dealing with, you might have asked yourself, as I did, Will Boxer let anyone sell their product? I loved the Boxer when I tried it out, I probably would have been very happy with it, but there were other things that I needed to consider.
I wish I had the Bobcat grapple I ordered, sometimes think about the Boxer, but I'm lovin this MT-52. It's still too early, but so far I think I made the right decision.
I don't think its too late to cancel my order, so could you answer a question for me? I load into a dump trailer. Wouldn't I be losing at least 12 inches of lift with the Branch Manager?

What if Bobcat goes bust? they just were sold to Doosen a South Korean company (they won't go out of biz). Sorry to bust on your chops guys if you have never owned a mini before, you are going to love what ever forwarder you get, I just prefer the ride on wheel models (much safer too when backing up).
Theres nothing wrong with the Bobcat MT or for that fact most of the minis that I have found. All the mini Mfg specs are within ~ 10% or less of each others class.
YES you "could" loose up to 12" or more depending on the log and your tilt back. This would limit load height on a trailer (you possibly are overloading your trailer too if your filling it that high with logs, gee I never done that). One small factor you would not realize is with a bucket style grapple when you load your log you drop it in the trailer The BMG actually can reach in and set the log down from gently.
Gently . . . HA . . . . not a word used much in this biz
I still believe that bringing the brush and logs out lenght wise is much more efficient then width wise (you are so limited to your job access opening). Skid style grapples accomplishes other things so much better, that loosing some lift height and loading from the rear of the trailer seems like a small trade off.

My 2 cents

 

[priest]

buying a boxer

I'm thinking about buying a Boxer, probably the 532. They are the highest model, but I think I need the lifting capacity. My dump trailer has 4 ft walls (on a 34 in deck), so I'll have to either butt load the logs or modify the trailer so that the walls hinge and flip down about 2 ft for easy loading.

I've noticed none of you have mentioned running a stump grinder attachment on these minis. I'm assuming that's because there are none that can compete with a stumper like the SC252? It sure would be nice to have the stumper on the same machine, and not have to take my 252 everywhere. I saw a post on a stumper attachment with its own gas engine. Anybody using it that would have some input?

Also, I'm interested in a branch manager grapple. TNT, did I gather that you sell those, and if so, what size would you recommend for using for both limbs and logs? I love that bollard on them-great idea.

Thanks

 

[tntree]

Priest

You won't be unhappy with the boxer 532, or a 320 for that matter. The BMG works great for both logs and brush, there is only 1 size for the mini's. The 427's are just about as powerful as the 5 series and alot less money(~13.5K), you just can't collapse the tracks to 35" wide.

As far as stump grinder attachments go the hydraulic driven ones do not cut it for a professional. Branch Manager has the only 38HP direct drive stump grinder for mini loaders in the Americas. Kanga's "Terminator" in Austrailia and a friend of mine's "Hornet" in England have the only other Engine Driven Wheel production models out there. When I realized there was a need for this attachment my goals were to out grind the 25 hp walk alongs on the market and for less money. Having owned, a 252, 1465 and lastly the 4012 I know I have a machine that kicks there Butt (38HP duh) and for under 12K. The Branch Manager "38 Special" is a collaboration with the English Hornet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeJ4mPvtoPs

After 3 years of R&D they are available this month and will be at TCI Expo in Baltimore. there are 5 currently working at Tree Services around the country.
Email me and I can refer you to some tree guys around the country who are running them.

Dave [email protected]