My splitter build

[wkpoor]

4 inch... should be a lot faster than 9 seconds

I didn't splain myself very well there. I have a 21GPM pump vs your 28GPM so even though you have a bigger cyl I would have thougth you to be as fast or faster with the added flow. It may come to be any restiction in plumbing or fittings will limit flow to a particular amount. I might have a similar issue and don't know it cause for the most part I run mine at part throttle and its plenty fast enough. In well behaved wood I only use about 6" worth of travel so we are just a sec or 2 or actual movement. If they are breakin nicely I can really pump em out.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Ah... IF I had a 4.5 or 5 cylinder.... mud's starting to settle a bit now.

I played with the carb settings and got it running a little better. It's maiden voyage today was some silver maple, 20ish in diameter. Easy as that stuff split, it worked me to death even at it's present reduced speed. Like you said, 6" of travel and it falls apart. I'm hoping the new valve gets me to 20 or 22 gpm.

I'm looking forward to getting the new exhaust made. Should muffle the engine nicely. It's a tad loud.

My wife predicted an emergency room visit could be expected fairly soon. Gotta love her optimism

Ian

 

[Alan Smith]

emergency room

My wife predicted an My wife predicted an emergency room visit could be expected fairly soon. could be expected fairly soon. why she say that?

 

[Haywire Haywood]

My previous history with sharp or dangerous equipment probably... tablesaws for example. --Ian

 

[kevin j]

ian,
You should have 28 gpm if that is what you calculate for that pump and rpm, regardless of valve or hose size.

Fixed displacement pumps are, well, fixed displacement, and put out a constant flow if the rpm holds.

Small section plus large section is total output before the unloading pressure is reached. (21 + 7? = 28 output)
Small section is output after unloading the large section to inlet ( 7? output)

Valves and hoses don't change the speed, they only add pressure drop to the circuit. It still moves 28 gpm, just takes more energy to push it through small conductors.

Of course, if the relief valve seting is reached, or the unloading set point is reached, then unloading happens across a small range of pressure, maybe 100 psi say from 800 to 900 psi range if you are set there. Flow could drop off there, but I doubt you have several hundred psi drop through the valve. Hope not anyway. What is the pump or valve inlet pressure reading at high idle with valve in neutral?

kcj

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Not a clue.. no pressure gauge in the system anywhere.

The engine runs at 3400 which should put that pump at just

 

[wkpoor]

Ian, One basic thing that could account for a lower cycle time is the most obvious. What is the stroke? hehehehe mine is 26" I wish loloololll.

 

[Ol' Brian]

Excellent thread!!! You've got me wanting to go out and build a splitter, and I've already got one.

ian,
You should have 28 gpm if that is what you calculate for that pump and rpm, regardless of valve or hose size.

Fixed displacement pumps are, well, fixed displacement, and put out a constant flow if the rpm holds.

Small section plus large section is total output before the unloading pressure is reached. (21 + 7? = 28 output)
Small section is output after unloading the large section to inlet ( 7? output)

Valves and hoses don't change the speed, they only add pressure drop to the circuit. It still moves 28 gpm, just takes more energy to push it through small conductors.

Of course, if the relief valve seting is reached, or the unloading set point is reached, then unloading happens across a small range of pressure, maybe 100 psi say from 800 to 900 psi range if you are set there. Flow could drop off there, but I doubt you have several hundred psi drop through the valve. Hope not anyway. What is the pump or valve inlet pressure reading at high idle with valve in neutral?

kcj

:agree2:

If you've got the RPM, you should have the flow.

Best thing you can do is get a pressure gauge on the pump outlet/valve inlet, and see what's happening at high idle. 28gpm is a lot of flow (.467 gallons per second) so I'm sure that there is some pressure buildup in neutral (and forward/reverse for that matter) especially when the fluid is cold. But that pump is going to move it at just about 28gpm no matter what the pressure (until you reach the 2nd stage shift point) as long as you've got the horsepower to do it. What will manifest itself with that high flow rate, is heat. I'll bet that even with your large reservoir, your hyd fluid gets warm pretty quickly, especially with the old spool valve.

Just thinking out of the box here... Is there ANY chance that the data plate on your pump is incorrect? Could your pump be a parts donor pump that a part got robbed off of (Stage 1, perhaps) and then it got re-assembled with another Stage 1 from a different GPM rated pump? Only way to tell would be to take it apart and measure the gears inside and then compare them to the specs for what's on the data plate. Like I said, just thinking outside the box here... I've never had a 2 stage pump apart, so I don't know if that's even possible... but since you bought it on eBay,... well, you know :monkey:

Easy as that stuff split, it worked me to death even at it's present reduced speed. Like you said, 6" of travel and it falls apart. I'm hoping the new valve gets me to 20 or 22 gpm.

Even if you only had 11gpm, after a while, it's gonna work you to death if you're working by yourself :greenchainsaw: :lifter:

My 11gpm/4"x24" (15 sec cycle time) splitter waits on me a heckuva lot more than I wait on it... and I run it normally at about 2/3 throttle. The problem is keeping the machine fed, bringing the next log to it. If you've got a helper to bring logs from the pile over to you, you can keep the machine busy a lot better.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Not a clue.. no pressure gauge in the system anywhere.

The engine runs at 3400 which should put that pump at just

Interesting... most of my post is gone.

anyway... continuing...

The engine runs at 3400 instead of 3600 so that should lower the output to just over 26gpm. I recalculated my flow using 1.3 gallons as cylinder volume and it gave me just over 17 gpm. I was using 1 gallon even (from memory) when I got the 14 number.

Bill, the stroke is 24".

The return line from the hose to the tank moves a lot, almost pulses all the time. If the valve backup is causing the pump to constantly shift from high to low and back, that could account for the low gpm and couldn't be good for the pump. The cylinder seems to move smoothly though.

XLR, I got that pump off ebay... anything is possible, but supposedly it was a Northern Tools return. Apparently they don't return stuff to stock, they sell it in lots or something.

Ian

 

[kevin j]

no gauge points?
you have a first class build going and no way to set it up to optimum, or to diagnose it.
slap that boy
Drill and tap some fittings, or add tees. Minimum of one on P line between pump and valve (there may be a gauge port on the manual spool valve already). I would also add one on the return line before the filter.

does it sound like the pump is unloading and loading the large stage? That would be a very large pressure drop in neutral. Or is your unloading pressure set very low so it loads and unloads?

kcj

 

[wkpoor]

I just thought about the displacement difference. You are turning in the ballpark of 3500rpm and I am in the ballpark 350rpm. That Prince PTO pump must have some serious volume.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

no gauge points?
you have a first class build going and no way to set it up to optimum, or to diagnose it.
slap that boy
Drill and tap some fittings, or add tees. Minimum of one on P line between pump and valve (there may be a gauge port on the manual spool valve already). I would also add one on the return line before the filter.

does it sound like the pump is unloading and loading the large stage? That would be a very large pressure drop in neutral. Or is your unloading pressure set very low so it loads and unloads?

kcj

LOL... slap me.. I can take it.

I can't hear anything unusual from the pump. Then again, this is the first time I've fiddled with hydraulics so I might not recognize it if I heard it. I gave the unload valve a couple twists clockwise (inwards) from the stock position, but it's not maxed out. As far as the gauge ports.. that would require me purchasing a gauge (or two) wouldn't it... how much do they run?

Ian

Edit: just got back from the barn. Bottoming the unload valve adjustment and holding the lever against the stop kills the engine right now, no hesitation. Back the adjustment off 1/2 turn and it loads the engine fairly well but doesn't threaten to kill it.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Man UPS is quick.. I'll have the new valve tomorrow.

I also backed the engine off to 3200rpms, which should make 25 gpm, the rated max flow for the new valve.

Ian

 

[wkpoor]

Ian, Gauges are cheap. Buy one that will register in the middle/top third of the dial. For you a 0-5000 should be OK. I have a liguid filled one so the reading is steadier. They don't react as fast to spikes but keep the reading steady.

 

[Ol' Brian]

Ian,

If all is working well, your pump should be pretty much silent... that is, you shouldn't hear at all it over the sound of the engine. If you hear anything more than a light whine, and in my experience, even if you hear a light whine with no load on the pump in these summer temps, it would be cause for concern. So if you don't hear anything, you're good. In the winter, when the oil is cold and thick, you might hear some noise from the pump until the oil warms a bit, but normally you shouldn't in the summer. When you hit the end of the cylinder stroke, or stall it out, you will hear the oil bypassing in the valve, but again, you shouldn't hear much of anything at all from the pump... if you hear any loud squeal or loud whine from the pump, that may indicate that the pump is being starved of fluid and cavitating.

My Dad's old SpeeCo splitter had that problem when it was new back in the mid 70's... it turned out to be that the bottom of the hole drilled for the pump inlet line where they welded the fitting on (looked more like they pushed the drillbit through the steel) didn't get removed from the tank... and eventually it got sucked into the inlet line, where it restricted flow to the pump. All seemed well until you moved the spool valve, then when the pump had to make any pressure, it would squeal loudly, but not load the engine, because it was being starved for fluid. In neutral, it was silent. The cylinder also moved at a snail's pace as well.

As for adding the pressure gauges, you would need the proper Tee fittings, and the gauges.

The gauge should probably run somewhere in the neighborhood of $20... I found this one on Surplus Center: System Pressure Gauge for $16.95. Here's one that would work well on your outlet side between the valve and the filter block to monitor the filter: Filter Monitor Gauge

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Hmmmmmmmm... New valve installed. Return detent now works.

NO CHANGE IN CYCLE SPEED.

I timed it several times and it always comes out to just about 4.75 seconds one way. I am a tad perplexed. This is just over 16 gpm. I'm beginning to think that my pump is not what it appears to be.

Ian

 

[Rookie1]

Pictures dude pictures. I want to see it.

 

[England14]

Hmmmmmmmm... New valve installed. Return detent now works.

NO CHANGE IN CYCLE SPEED.

I timed it several times and it always comes out to just about 4.75 seconds one way. I am a tad perplexed. This is just over 16 gpm. I'm beginning to think that my pump is not what it appears to be.

Ian

Maybe you need some 1" hoses. :monkey:

 

[wkpoor]

On a fixed displacement pump the flow has to be there regarless of hose sizes unless the suction side if gulping air along with fluid. Tubing and hose sizes will affect no load pressures is all. How big is the reservior and is the pump below it for good flooded suction?

 

[Ol' Brian]

Hmmmmmmmm... New valve installed. Return detent now works.

NO CHANGE IN CYCLE SPEED.

I timed it several times and it always comes out to just about 4.75 seconds one way. I am a tad perplexed. This is just over 16 gpm. I'm beginning to think that my pump is not what it appears to be.

Ian

:agree2:

I think you might have gotten a cobbled pump... take it apart and measure the gears. Then compare that to the specs for the pump...

That's still pretty respectable cycle time though... that machine will still likely wait on you more than you will wait on it.