Need advice for snaged leaning tree

[Sprig]

Sweetgum. Split it if you can, and burn it for firewood in 2010.

Think so too, def not a maple. Glad all went well for you, good job

Add this link to your arsenal > http://forestry.about.com/cs/treeid/a/100_trees_id.htm

And thanks fer sharing your adventure!

Serge

 

[newb]

I'm sorry, but I think you guys made a huge mistake here. Here is a homeowner with a very dangerous situation and very limited knowledge. He also has to go out and buy gear to "help" him through this. I cant believe this site was meant to talk the inexperienced through these situations. For the most part we all have been in situations that we had to step back and think our way out of, and then talked it over with others in the biz about it. But to talk a homeowner through it, shame. I think everyone got lucky this guy is still around. In one thread your slamming "hacks", in another your doing this. I think it needs to be rethought! Slam me if you will, that's where I stand. Pete

 

[oldirty]

i just found this thread. and people wonder why the term "homeowner" is derogatory.

wow.

i want to save some money you think. a couple months on Asite will definifitaly sharpen my skills you think. i can do this you think.

you blew it i think.

that scarf/scaff/notch/pie, whatever the hell you guys want to call it was gross. was that an attempt at a humboldt? lol


for real man whats a couple of bucks compared to your life? so you wanted to make a money cut and be the one holding the saw. all fine and good, if you know whats what.

your best bet wouldve been having someone who knows what their doing standing next to you and talking you through that cut. not a friend or your dad or your neighbor. someone who does it for a living.

if you called me one day and asked me to come over your house because you need a quick lesson but you didnt want me to touch the saw or touch anything just advise. and you offered me money to do this, i'd come out and gladly not touch a damn thing and walk you through this step by step. making sure you'd do fine.

yes it would cost you a dollar but what is worth more to you? your life or that firewood?


anyway, enough of the rant. the best way to get that snag in particular was to pull it from the bottom away from the way it fell just like you did.




oldirty

 

[Log Splitter]

All good points, guys. Most of the advice he received was to pull the tree off the stump, which is relatively safe, IMO.

BTW, if I had recommeded doing anything dangerous, I would have prefaced any advice with the fact I'm just a 'homeowner, hack, and firewood cutter'. That way he could take the advice for what it is worth.

I've used the winch technique to pull hung up trees off stumps in the past, and it's worked well. I was out of the danger zone the whole time I worked, so in this case I felt comfortable posting it here. If I'd thought the guy needed a pro to solve the problem I would have said so.

I can tell you that I'm a better, and safer, 'homeowner, hack, and firewood cutter' because of what I've learned here.

 

[oldirty]

Its down

I need to work on the accuracy of my cuts.

Thanks for the help guys I would not have thought of pulling from the bottom and I now have a new tool in my arsenal of drop techniques,

Now I am going to let loose my 372 on the offending tree :chainsawguy:

be careful man. be very very careful.




oldirty

ps. why wasnt this in the commercial thread where you wouldve gotten instant feedback that would have been correct? and not just a bunch of pats on the arse for not knowing what you were doing?

 

[oldphart]

good grief

I'm sorry, but I think you guys made a huge mistake here. Here is a homeowner with a very dangerous situation and very limited knowledge. ** I think it needs to be rethought! Slam me if you will, that's where I stand. Pete

oh come on now, it wasn't THAT dangerous. Let's not over dramatize things The only dangerous advice I saw was bucking off a few feet and that one came with many many disclaimers. All it took was some common sense. Let's not sell people short, the only potentially dangerous situation I saw would 've been the wife coming home and seeing her Lexus towing trees.

 

[raventai]

ps. why wasn’t this in the commercial thread where you would’ve gotten instant feedback that would have been correct? And not just a bunch of pats on the arse for not knowing what you were doing?

I thought the non-pro questions went here in the homeowner helper forum? Was I suppose to post in the commercial section?

And is it not the purpose of this forum to help us "homeowner hacks" improve our skills? To be safer? At least in this thread it has done so.

I certainly do appreciate your concern for my safety, which is why, when this tree snagged, I stopped, realizing the danger, and thought about it for a while. And I came up with some solutions (see first post). But I did not like these solutions as they seemed dangerous, and had I been a true hack, I would have just executed one of those and run the risk of getting hurt.

Instead I came here and asked the experts for advice. I pondered on the various solutions and chose the safest and most effective. The tree did exactly what I wanted it to do and landed within a few feet of where I wanted it

I know my notch cut was a bit deep. I knew it the moment I did it. It is suppose to be 1/3 instead of ½--anything else? I do need to work on my notch cuts, any constructive advice?

This property is a long project, not just one tree. It is 6 acres of very dense Florida Oak Hammock (almost rain forest). The intent here is to clear for two building sites (a house and work shop), driveways and paths, and remove some of these bean pole trees that are competing with the massive live oaks for sun,

I do not have the budget to bring in a pro for the 100 or so trees that will be coming down. What I need is to improve my skills. No one is born a woodsman, and like any other skill we learn it.

 

[raventai]

Let's not sell people short, the only potentially dangerous situation I saw would 've been the wife coming home and seeing her Lexus towing trees.

:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[oldirty]

I thought the non-pro questions went here in the homeowner helper forum? Was I suppose to post in the commercial section?


I do not have the budget to bring in a pro for the 100 or so trees that will be coming down. What I need is to improve my skills. No one is born a woodsman, and like any other skill we learn it.

a question like this i believe would meet the criteria for a pro to have a look at.

and like i suggested. having someone with a clue come out to help you get a better grip on what it is you are trying to accomplish will help your skills tenfold.

just dont expect this hard earned knowledge to be just handed out. what do you do or what do you have that you might be willing to trade for. i like cash personally.



oldirty

 

[oldirty]

oh come on now, it wasn't THAT dangerous. Let's not over dramatize things The only dangerous advice I saw was bucking off a few feet and that one came with many many disclaimers. All it took was some common sense. Let's not sell people short, the only potentially dangerous situation I saw would 've been the wife coming home and seeing her Lexus towing trees.

actually man your wrong it was dangerous. wires were near the tree and from the pics targets as well. dont forget the guy chopping away at the cut with his ax. he's in the danger area. the guy who cut himself into that situation.

and you have to sell people short. i consider everyone i meet a knucklehead until they prove themself otherwise. 99% of the time i am spot on with this way of thinking.




oldirty

 

[Sprig]

I don't agree. I didn't like it that he was working to weaken the hinge....especially when he later discovered he had already cut a lot more of the hinge that he thought he had. A novice is in a really bad spot standing at a stump weakening a hinge. Another thing, when he was pulling the stump off with his vehicle.....had the tree gone the wrong way he was only 20ft or so away from the stump! I hardly call that a safe distance.
In my view it would have been far safer to have installed a high rope and pulled this hung up tree down. It didn't look to be held my much.

He did say that he had a higher rope tied off to control the falls direction, but hacking at the already weak hinge with an axe wasn't that brilliant and I concur on that point. He was determined to do this himself so I'd rather have given the best advice I could (based on my own experiences) to give him other options and opinions to consider, reiterating planning and safety instead of sitting on the fence watching, no doubt hang-ups like this can be dicey and hopefully there won't be a repeat.

oh come on now, it wasn't THAT dangerous. Let's not over dramatize things The only dangerous advice I saw was bucking off a few feet and that one came with many many disclaimers. All it took was some common sense. Let's not sell people short, the only potentially dangerous situation I saw would 've been the wife coming home and seeing her Lexus towing trees.

Lol!

 

[raventai]

a question like this i believe would meet the criteria for a pro to have a look at.

and like i suggested. having someone with a clue come out to help you get a better grip on what it is you are trying to accomplish will help your skills tenfold.

just dont expect this hard earned knowledge to be just handed out. what do you do or what do you have that you might be willing to trade for. i like cash personally.



oldirty

I can understand that you may not want to give away the knowledge that you make your living on. Your knowledge is wholly yours to do with as you please.

I am a commercial Aircraft Mechanic, currently Boeing 777, 767, 757, 737. also MD 80 & 11. Giving away my knowledge has no effect on my livelihood. as 2000 hours of classroom time and federal license is required to replace me.

I have already had an arborist out here to talk about these trees> He believes that the largest oak on the property may be the largest in the county. He advised to remove some of the other trees that are trying to choke the live oaks out but not too many as to make a "wind hole." We are following his advice. I will be bringing out that same arborist later to evaluate one of these live oaks to see if it can be left. It is near the home site and was looking sick, but it has been looking better since I cut the thigh-thick grape vines that were all over it about 5 years ago.

I also had the forest service out to talk about a fire break around the property. I almost have that project complete.

 

[newb]

For the record, I hope I am not being credited with the term homeowner hack. That is not what I said. The best advice you were offered was to call in a pro to help you out. I own my own business and I'm not afraid to hire someone to work a tree Im not comfortable with, some of whom are on this site. As for not being that dangerous, didn't you say there were wires and structure near? I'm a volunteer firefighter, and I would never tell anyone on a web page how to put out a chimney fire. Pete

 

[oldphart]

well, what does this mean to YOU then:

"Homeowner Helper Forum (4 Viewing)
Homeowners, this is your chance to ask the pros advice and questions. PLEASE DON'T email arboristsite questions...blah blah blah"

It doesn't say "gimmee $10 and I'll answer your questions for you.".. Raventai asked a very simple question and you got on his case saying people should get $$ for answering questions and just hire the PRO's. I'm sure raventai nor myself would never dream of calling up a trimmer and ask for them to come out for FREE advice but OTOH, if you lived like across the street and we communicated freely, I would EXPECT some FREE advice otherwise, I'd call up any competitor and even if he were more $$$ (doubtful) I'd let him put up the "This TreeWork is being done by XXX Company".

I'm now curious, when you're walking down the street and you see someone you know, do they instinctively reach for their wallet?

I for one, would never do any business with you. If you do not like GIVING out advice, why even read the posts?

Again I say, it was a very simple topple and raventai just wanted a confirmation that his next planned move was the correct one.

 

[oldirty]

well, what does this mean to YOU then:

"Homeowner Helper Forum (4 Viewing)
Homeowners, this is your chance to ask the pros advice and questions. PLEASE DON'T email arboristsite questions...blah blah blah"

if you lived like across the street and we communicated freely, I would EXPECT some FREE advice otherwise, I'd call up any competitor and even if he were more $$$ (doubtful) I'd let him put up the "This TreeWork is being done by XXX Company".


Again I say, it was a very simple topple and raventai just wanted a confirmation that his next planned move was the correct one.

ok homeboy. lets go through this one. if the "topple" was so simple then why the hell did he end up over his head? and asking for help?


i dont know what you do for a living but if it was wall street journal stuff then would you be giving out trade secrets to joe schmoe at home so he can work his new found trade secrets on his own laptop? i doubt it.

and i am totally unsure of your reasoning here, but what you do for work would you in your off time do it for nothing? i dont think so.


and if you were my neighbor why do i get the feeling you would be asking me for a whole lot more than i would ask from you?


my time is worth money. period. (although in the past i have done probono work) whats your time worth oldphart?

and 10 bucks isnt going cover it pal.


oldirty

 

[Gologit]

Hey, raventai...

Welcome to AS. Asking for advice here is kind of like standing in a large group of people, all unknown to you, and getting stuff thrown at you from all directions.
You'll get a lot of good advice, some -not-so-good advice, and a few jerks who'd rather give you a bad time than any advice at all. I'm sure that by now you've figured out which is which and proceded accordingly.
You had a problem and you asked good questions about it. You listened to the advice given and took the aquired knowledge to the task at hand.
I'll ad my two cents worth. In any kind of tree work, do the safest thing. Mistakes happen...it's no big deal. Just don't let a mistake become a disaster...they can hurt you.
Bob

 

[oldirty]

I'm now curious, when you're walking down the street and you see someone you know, do they instinctively reach for their wallet?

they do if they owe me money.




and boboak. why do i get the impression you just called me a jerk? i get offended by these guys very easily because it has taken me alot of time and hardwork along with the blood and sweat to know what i know now. and damnit man i am so very far from knowing the rest but i am trying.

and for this guy to go out and start fell'n trees with out a clue is very offensive to me.

it is what it is man. you either know what your doing and still run the risks or you have no idea and are completely at risk.



oldirty

 

[Gologit]

they do if they owe me money.




and boboak. why do i get the impression you just called me a jerk? i get offended by these guys very easily because it has taken me alot of time and hardwork along with the blood and sweat to know what i know now. and damnit man i am so very far from knowing the rest but i am trying.

and for this guy to go out and start fell'n trees with out a clue is very offensive to me.

it is what it is man. you either know what your doing and still run the risks or you have no idea and are completely at risk.



oldirty

Yup...hard work and blood and sweat...we've all been there. And along the way hasn't somebody helped us, even if it's just a little? He's not taking any money out our pocket, he just wants to keep himself safe. I fell timber for a living for a long time and amateurs scare me, too. They don't know how fast things can go wrong and how deadly and unforgiving trees can be.
At least this guy isn't arguing with us about the advice he's been given like some of them do. Those are the kind that piss me off and when they argue the advice stops.
This guy sounds alright to me. He just needs to find out what he doesn't know and that's what he's doing. I think that those who know have an obligation to help those who don't.
Bob

 

[Sprig]

they do if they owe me money.
and boboak. why do i get the impression you just called me a jerk? i get offended by these guys very easily because it has taken me alot of time and hardwork along with the blood and sweat to know what i know now. and damnit man i am so very far from knowing the rest but i am trying.
and for this guy to go out and start fell'n trees with out a clue is very offensive to me.
it is what it is man. you either know what your doing and still run the risks or you have no idea and are completely at risk.
oldirty

Olddirty, are you saying that someone asking for help should be denied that because you deem them unworthy? Hm. Just wondering.
Do you think that the only way to impart your knowledge is to be 'right there'?
Um, and how did you 'head out' and start fellin trees?
A person asked a real question and those that thought they had logical answers, answered. Am I missing something, I always thought that knowledge was something to be shared, I don't think that offering advice to the best of one's knowledge should be withheld for any reason unless there is some sort of 'ego-fear' thingy going on. Please enlighten me as to what so offended you, where the offenders points were off etc. etc. What is it with people that figure that because 'You wasn't there' makes it all of a sudden an incomprehensible thing worthy of lessers. Nobody will ever walk in my shoes, nobody. I can understand concerns but that does not change the facts that I may have knowledge to impart, it ain't the bible of what ta do, but surely if I deem it worthy to blather a bit it might be worth considation. Anyone catch my drift here? So what if it took you 10 years to figure something out, are you telling us you would withhold that knowledge because your afeared that someone didn't work for it? In such a case as this I figured there'd be some decent imput, alternate options etc.. Sure as heck it ain't an 'on-line' fellers instruction manual, but hey, there are all the online books and so forth that some folks'll read and follow without askin' anyone.
So if some one is stuck in a situation is it better to advise them to seek 'pro' help? Why did they ask here? Doesn't that require a bit of biting the bullet to actually ask others? I'm not sure of what I speak of but if someone asks my opinion on a method or two I surely will not avoid it because it is imparting 'hard-gained' lessons, that to me me is more dangerous than saying nothing at all. I thought the idea was to get some imput other than what they are dealing with. Just my personal opinion, maybe a bit wobbly, but sheesh men, if someone asks a question and you have a sensible idea I think it is better to state it rather than sitting around eating popcorn waiting for an outcome. On any point I have ever commented on the first thing I express is the need for common sense and safety, and will try to point out any other advice that I can think of. As always I stand to be corrected on any point I make and will take my lumps as a gentleman. That said, its kinda dumb to try and walk a novice through things above their heads, I know we don't do this, but I think it is foolish to consider all people asking questions as idiots, and consider that we all started somewhere. There are enough wise people here to filter out stupid stuff that would put people in danger, but that does not remove danger from the equation. So what do you do? If you see something dangerous and stupid, do you just sit back and wait? Or add your 0.02$ worth? Its real easy to say 'Find a pro', but how many people listen? Yup, it be a slippery slope imho. So in the future I will continue to give the best advise based on my limited knowledge and hope that other more knowledgable people won't be stingy woth what they have learned.
Just a wee blather fer the evening, as always I stand to be corrected, admonished, slapped, whatever...............
Ya, a bit long-winded but this thing about what and where you can teach has me in a quandry, of course nothing beats 'hand-on' in yer face teaching, but man, the world of learning isn't limited to that imho.



Serge (ducking already )

 

[oldirty]

And along the way hasn't somebody helped us, even if it's just a little?



This guy sounds alright to me. He just needs to find out what he doesn't know and that's what he's doing. I think that those who know have an obligation to help those who don't.
Bob

i have been helped along the way man. a ton. but i had to prove to those who taught me anything that i wanted to learn. i guess its hard to see through a computer screen if some one really "wants" it.


and i guess if i look at it the way you present it (....those who know....) then i have no chioce but to help. but if your on my crew i need to watch you for a minute and there is no choice there. it was how i was taught.

anyway. methinks that if this guy falls another tree and she ends up hung up then he will know how to attack the problem and that is what he came to Asite for right? (and hopefully if he ends up with another snag it wont be too far from the 4x4)

good luck on the cut'n in your future.




oldirty