New Saw Technology - Who Has It, Who Doesn't?

[Chris-PA]

The two biggest developments recently are Strato and feedback fuel systems (M-Tronic & AutoTune). My impression is that RedMax developed Strato and now Husky owns that, but I'm not sure that's true. Anyone know who owns it and who has to pay royalties?

Clearly Husky and Stihl are going strato with feedback fuel systems - what are the rest doing, and how will they meet tougher emissions rules? These two things combined really are a major step, and it is hard to imagine how companies like Echo, Makita or EFCO will be able to compete if they don't have it, so I'm curious if anyone knows what they are going to do.

 

[SawTroll]

As I understand it, it is very simple - Stihl is paying Husky to use the first generation Strato and AutoTune technology, but aren't allowed to use the second generation of either.

 

[naturelover]

Stihl probably doesn't want their second gen Autotune anyway...

 

[Andyshine77]

Dolmar came up with the SLR muffler + they use of cats, and 4 stroke engines. http://www.dolmarpowerproducts.com/downloads/1688/2012Catalog.pdf

Shindaiwa/Echo same company now, use stratos, 4cycle and I think sometimes they also use cats.

 

[Chris-PA]

As I understand it, it is very simple - Stihl is paying Husky to use the first generation Strato and AutoTune technology, but aren't allowed to use the second generation of either.

Wow, that's huge. For the the price premium they get they should be able to afford to pay for it, though it will cut into their profits a bit. On the other hand Husky has to pay off the debt they took on to buy RedMax and fund AutoTune development.

 

[SawTroll]

Wow, that's huge. For the the price premium they get they should be able to afford to pay for it, though it will cut into their profits a bit. On the other hand Husky has to pay off the debt they took on to buy RedMax and fund AutoTune development.

Something like that I guess, but things has developed since Husky bought Zenoah in 2006 (Redmax just is the US brand name for Zenoah). Btw, it was the EU that convinced Husky to let Stihl use the technology - so maybe the Nobel peace price to the EU was a good move anyway? :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Chris-PA]

Dolmar came up with the SLR muffler + they use of cats, and 4 stroke engines. http://www.dolmarpowerproducts.com/downloads/1688/2012Catalog.pdf

Shindaiwa/Echo same company now, use stratos, 4cycle and I think sometimes they also use cats.

Interesting, I didn't realize Echo was going with strato. We'll see how 4-strokes work out for chainsaws.

I still haven't figured out what I think of that SLR thing, though I've read the explanation a few times. Seems like they have to match the volume of that chamber to the volume of the cylinder, but I'm not sure if it requires any resonance tuning. It kinda looks like it would, but if so then it would only really work at one rpm. I would assume opening up the muffler would defeat it completely.

 

[SawTroll]

Interesting, I didn't realize Echo was going with strato. We'll see how 4-strokes work out for chainsaws.

I still haven't figured out what I think of that SLR thing, though I've read the explanation a few times. Seems like they have to match the volume of that chamber to the volume of the cylinder, but I'm not sure if it requires any resonance tuning. It kinda looks like it would, but if so then it would only really work at one rpm. I would assume opening up the muffler would defeat it completely.

There is one obvious result of the SLR thing - it reduces the power output of the saws quite severly, according to specs.
I suspect the best thing about it is that it may be possible to remove it at a not too high cost - but there is a possibilty you may need a new cylinder (unless you know what to do with it) as well as a new (old style) muffler - not really sure.....

 

[hoeyrd2110]

why should all the others who have a small market share spend money to fail. i mean fail as in new AT an MT saws on basically no market testing(lab testing is great but it's just not the same). when ever a new technology comes out in any field the biggest companies go forth first, they get all the hype because they are the "only ones" to have this unobtanium tech for the first year or so. but the downside to this is what if the product completely falls flat. it could damage a perfectly good reputation pretty quick. if all the other saw manufacturers sit and watch a bit and learn from the big two, it means less R&D for them in the end and a cheaper price to us...and usually the mimmics are better than the originals. I feel a resurgence in ECHO big time i see it everyday at work, and if dolmar ever gets a marketing department(that does it's job) it'll be right with the big two. This whole new tech switch is a game changer in the whole industry. can husky/stihl continue to stay on top...we shall see. i personally don't understand why the saws don't have mechanical injection...light easy simple to tune, doesn't leak. easily adjustable valve by computer. i would also like a feature that if the injection(my idea of mechanical or AT or MT) goes awry the fail safe is open and full fuel rather than cut out mid cut or the like hurting the saw. mechanica injection i'm telling you the new school is the new old school

someone just needs to remake the old saws with the features of the new engines and fuel delivery systems...i mean comeone a Poulan 3700 AT? ridiculous i know but think about the flexibility there.

 

[Chris-PA]

I keep hearing people talk about injection on a chainsaw - what would be the benefit? It is a single cylinder, so there are no fuel distribution issues, and carbs can atomize fuel quite well.

 

[rmihalek]

I keep hearing people talk about injection on a chainsaw - what would be the benefit? It is a single cylinder, so there are no fuel distribution issues, and carbs can atomize fuel quite well.

The benefit is that the injector puts the fuel where it's needed: into the combustion chamber. An auxiliary injector can be set up for the bottom end to keep the bearings happy. When the computer gets it all synchronized, very little unburned mix will go out the exhaust port and the saw will run all day, in changing conditions and also run with the poor fuel available from the pump.

 

[hoeyrd2110]

it is mostly for fuel and emissions reasons really. a carb saw is going to run cooler because it can atomize fuel better than an injector. but the rubbers required to run properly with ethanol in the fuel is just to much $$ to put into a carb for them. so we rebuild em every other year or we go injected...unless i'm wrong i think the carb saws will run longer between rebuilds...less heat means less wasted energy and less chance of burning one up. my question is how good are these electronic injectors at atomizing oil and fuel mix? vs a carb. i can find tests online that show carbs do a better job at fuel but if oil is atomized better thru injection. that probly means alot less emissions and makes the EPA very happy.

 

[Chris-PA]

The benefit is that the injector puts the fuel where it's needed: into the combustion chamber. An auxiliary injector can be set up for the bottom end to keep the bearings happy. When the computer gets it all synchronized, very little unburned mix will go out the exhaust port and the saw will run all day, in changing conditions and also run with the poor fuel available from the pump.

Direct cylinder injection? Really - on a saw? Is this the system Stihl has on a concrete saw or something? Clearly that would have major benefits on a 2-stroke, although the lubrication issue would have to be dealt with. Direct cylinder injection requires a lot of pressure and would be a lot more complex.

 

[stihl023/5]

As long as I can run simple saws I will. This new tech is just another pita.:taped:

 

[Zombiechopper]

Direct cylinder injection? Really - on a saw? Is this the system Stihl has on a concrete saw or something? Clearly that would have major benefits on a 2-stroke, although the lubrication issue would have to be dealt with. Direct cylinder injection requires a lot of pressure and would be a lot more complex.

no, the Stihl cutoff saw is crankcase injection.

 

[pyromedic]

As long as I can run simple saws I will. This new tech is just another pita.:taped:

+1 on that! More electronics, more moving parts, more to go wrong. The KISS principle still applies. Unfortunately we'll all be forced to use the new tech stuff one day. I just hope that by that time they have it perfected.

I will say the Stihl 4 mix on my BR 600 Magnum seems to run well. I understand when they first came out there were valve problems but that is supposed to be fixed now. I hope so.

 

[Slamm]

+1 on that! More electronics, more moving parts, more to go wrong. The KISS principle still applies. Unfortunately we'll all be forced to use the new tech stuff one day. I just hope that by that time they have it perfected.

I will say the Stihl 4 mix on my BR 600 Magnum seems to run well. I understand when they first came out there were valve problems but that is supposed to be fixed now. I hope so.

The cross cut saw doesn't have much for moving parts, but there seems to be a lack of steady users.

Sam

 

[Zombiechopper]

oh, you guys.

If you bought a car in 1940, it might have a total lifespan of 200K miles if you were lucky, and in that time it would have needed countless timing adjustmets, carb adjustments. Heck, it probably have had the heads off at least twice to make it that long and maybe even bottom end work. Not to mention rotting hoses, belts and other assorted junk.

Nowadays, you buy a new vehicle and they last 300K+ without ever needing anything adjusted. Stuff still wears out and breaks, but man the reliability is a billion times better even though it is a drastically more complicated machine.

 

[SawTroll]

....

Shindaiwa/Echo same company now, use stratos, 4cycle and I think sometimes they also use cats.

At least they are owned by the same company, and have started cooperating. However, one bad brand + one mediocre one doesn't suddenly make a good one.....:msp_rolleyes:

 

[hoeyrd2110]

At least they are owned by the same company, and have started cooperating. However, one bad brand + one mediocre one doesn't suddenly make a good one.....:msp_rolleyes:

two companies who would like to think they are the only ones who exist or existed and are presents from the saw gods to us after they made a few good series of saws the past 20-25 years. doesn't make them good either does it...hmm interesting thoughts here:tongue2:




i couldn't help myself:hmm3grin2orange: