Newbie Question - building splitter

[RoGrrr]

I think I read somewhere that the storage tank should be 1-1/2 times the volume of the pump. Now if the cylinder is 4 x 24 (about 1.3 gallons) and the pump is 11 GPM, that would compute to about 17 gallons of oil.

Hmmm.

Why such a big storage tank ? Is it to prevent cavitation or is it for cooling ? If cooling, why not put in a radiator, something like a heater core from an ol junk car....


On another note:
I spoke with a fella who has to let his splitter warm up for quite a while in the winter so it will cycle. He thought he was using 20W50 in the hydraulics. I feel that this was way too thick. I plan to use some light hydraulic oil like what is used in a backhoe. Any thoughts ?


Also, someone mentioned that his exhaust was aimed wrong. If you're a welder, that shouldn't be any problem. Aim it somewhere that's out of the way, like UNDER the main beam. The thing that gets me is that they put such a skimpy muffler on the engines. I see vids of sawyers wearing earmuffs. If you have a good muffler, you shouldn't need muffs. Kinda reminds me of my _EX_-wife and her crabbing.
Sears used to have one they marketed as the MUZZLER. Think I'm gonna build one that really muffles....

BTW, I'm gathering parts to build my splitter. I have an 11 GPM Haldex pump and a 4 inch cylinder so far. Prolly will use a 6 inch or 8 inch beam, tho I have thought of using a 6 inch square tube for the main beam and let it serve as the reservoir.

RoGrrr
Central Ohio

 

[rx7145]

I have always heard one gallon per GPM of the pump. Which would be 11 gallons. Now most splitters have less than that. Like my northern splitter it has a 9 gallon tank it will get warm. (you can look up the thread it you want, more than enough info it there and I'm still now done.)

If you are going to bulid one I would have a 11 gallon tank but not fill it all the way up, them if you need more cooling add more fluid. You could add a cooler like a heater core (does it flow enough, what psi can it take?) but that will make the system more complcated. (tanks are used for cooling and letting the air out of the oil)

Hope that helps.

 

[triptester]

When building a splitter the first thing to do is research commercially built machines to see how they design them and how they work.
Splitters that use a combination reservoir/ axle,4" wide x 8" tall x 36" long will use 1/2 to 3/4 gallons for each gallon of pump capacity. This shape of tank allows the supply and return ports to be placed far apart giving the oil time to cool.
When design requires a more compact reservoir baffles are added to the interior of the tank to slow the flow between supply and return. Reservoirs should always be taller than they are wide. The more compact the reservoir is the more oil that is required.

The muffler on small engines are designed for proper engine performance . Changing or rerouting mufflers can shorten engine life.

A 6" beam is usually adequate when using a 4" bore cylinder. Square tube could be used but it may make it more difficult to attach the slide.

 

[blackdoggy]

A log splitter is one of the absolutely most simple hydraulic powered devices that man could ever make. All you need for your recipe is 1. One 25 Lb per ft I beam 2. One rear axle 3. One Barnes two stage 11 GPM pump 4.One small engine between five and ten horse power 5. A good welder 6. One steel tank can be a propane tank or a well pump bladder tank it could also be made of box steel. 7. 1/2 inch plate steel (around six square feet) 8. Around 50 Lbs 7018 welding rods 9. Hydraulic cylinder in the 4.5 to 5.5 inch variety. 10.Hydraulic hoses 11. Hydraulic valve 12. One hydraulic breather
Now if this list hasn't scared you away then Have fun welding and make sure you wear your leather sleeves or lots of sun screen.

 

[cabinman]

sometimes, not, posting is the biggest challange,...

 

[turnkey4099]

My tank is a section about 16" long of 4"x6" sq tubing. A bit small per calculation but my oil only gets warm.

When it comes to tanks, more is better as the tank is the cooling and de-aertion system. Adding a radiator or similar just adds complexity to a simple system where building the tank bigger (or adding an auxilliary tank would be far simpler (and probably cheaper).

It is also good practice to place the tank so the tank outlet will be above the pump. That ensures that the pump will always have oil (barring forgetting to put it in of course). It only takes a few revs to ruin a dry pump.

Harry K

 

[mga]

I think I read somewhere that the storage tank should be 1-1/2 times the volume of the pump. Now if the cylinder is 4 x 24 (about 1.3 gallons) and the pump is 11 GPM, that would compute to about 17 gallons of oil.

do a search here in this forum. we have several hydraulic web sites listed that show basic hydraulic theory.

Hmmm.

Why such a big storage tank ? Is it to prevent cavitation or is it for cooling ? If cooling, why not put in a radiator, something like a heater core from an ol junk car....

yes and yes. you can try using a radiator for cooling. we've discussed this as well and i'm not sure if anyone has incorporated that yet onto their splitters.

my question is which gets over heated first: the splitter of the person using one?

On another note:
I spoke with a fella who has to let his splitter warm up for quite a while in the winter so it will cycle. He thought he was using 20W50 in the hydraulics. I feel that this was way too thick. I plan to use some light hydraulic oil like what is used in a backhoe. Any thoughts ?

again, we have a thread here that talks about splitter oil. seems that one guy who says he's a hydraulic expert claims any oil can be used in a splitter. many of us use transmission oil, some use just hydraulic oil...if there's a difference.

Also, someone mentioned that his exhaust was aimed wrong. If you're a welder, that shouldn't be any problem. Aim it somewhere that's out of the way, like UNDER the main beam. The thing that gets me is that they put such a skimpy muffler on the engines. I see vids of sawyers wearing earmuffs. If you have a good muffler, you shouldn't need muffs. Kinda reminds me of my _EX_-wife and her crabbing.
Sears used to have one they marketed as the MUZZLER. Think I'm gonna build one that really muffles....

designing your splitter is the fun of building one. if the noise is of concern, then add whatever muffler you want, just don't restrict too much of the exhaust pressure.

and, yes, there is nothing worse than having engine exhaust blowing on you while standing there splitting wood for several hours.

all engines make noise.

BTW, I'm gathering parts to build my splitter. I have an 11 GPM Haldex pump and a 4 inch cylinder so far. Prolly will use a 6 inch or 8 inch beam, tho I have thought of using a 6 inch square tube for the main beam and let it serve as the reservoir.

RoGrrr
Central Ohio

good luck with that. post some pics as you go along.

 

[blackdoggy]

These links should help you out baum has a reservoir calculator near the bottom of the page.
http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulic.htm
http://www.baumhydraulics.com/pages.php?pageid=4
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/ProductList.asp?Category=Engine&Supplier=Briggs

 

[triptester]

A log splitter can be a fun project to build, but even the most basic splitter will cost more to build than to buy unless you can get most of the major components at low cost if not free.

There are many things to consider.

All 6" beams are not equal, the thickness of the web and flanges will differ with the weight of the beam.

Hydraulic fittings may look the same on the outside but the orifice on the inside can vary greatly, I have seen 1/2" fittings with only a 1/4" orifice, restrictions like that cause heat.

A poorly designed reservoir will require more oil to cool and remove air and moisture.

A thin wedge requires less tonnage but greater travel to split, while a wedge with wings requires more tonnage but less travel.

The width of the push plate will also affect tonnage requirements.

Hydraulic oil should be of the proper viscosity for the climate it is used, too thin can damage seals, too thick can damage pumps.

 

[RoGrrr]

Well,fellas, I have decided to respond to all of you in one reply. Here it is:

rx7145

I have always heard one gallon per GPM of the pump. Which would be 11 gallons.

(tanks are used for cooling and letting the air out of the oil)


RoGrrr Responds:
Gallon, gallon and half, not much difference, overall.
__________________

triptester

When building a splitter the first thing to do is research commercially built machines to see how they design them and how they work.
RoGrrr Responds:
I’ve spent loads of time looking, reading, redesigning.
So I sit down and draw another draft beer.


Splitters that use a combination reservoir/ axle,4" wide x 8" tall x 36" long
RoGrrr Responds:
ONLY 36 inches ? If I go this route, I’ll go 48 inches.

will use 1/2 to 3/4 gallons for each gallon of pump capacity. This shape of tank allows the supply and return ports to be placed far apart giving the oil time to cool.
RoGrrr Responds:
I hadn’t thought about the shape of the tank.

Reservoirs should always be taller than they are wide.
RoGrrr Responds:
Good idea. I’ll keep this in mind.

The muffler on small engines are designed for proper engine performance . Changing or rerouting mufflers can shorten engine life.
RoGrrr Responds:
A muffler is an echo chamber that need not change anything about the original system. Adding a “post-muffler” to it to not only reroute but allow the sharp notes to be dulled by large chamber echoing will help the ears. Yes, all noise makers do but divorce is an option for some....

A 6" beam is usually adequate when using a 4" bore cylinder.
RoGrrr Responds:
I ran across a stash of 8x40 W-Flanges

__________________


blackdoggy

A log splitter is one of the absolutely most simple hydraulic powered devices that man could ever make. All you need for your recipe is
1. One 25 Lb per ft I beam
RoGrrr Responds:
agreed but I tend to overbuild

3. One Barnes two stage 11 GPM pump
RoGrrr Responds:
I’ve heard bad things about Barnes, tho Split-EZ uses them. I have a Halditosis,,,, uhh, oops, haldex

5. A good welder
RoGrrr Responds:
Why pay a good welder when I can weld some myself and then I won’t have to give up any of that good, cold beer.

After I get it done, I can call my friends over and WE can drink that good cold beer.

6. One steel tank can be a propane tank or a well pump bladder tank it could also be made of box steel.
RoGrrr Responds:
Split-EZ uses a 40 gallon tank that looks to be made from 3/8 inch steel plate. Talk about indestructible....

7. 1/2 inch plate steel (around six square feet)
RoGrrr Responds:
I go to the scrap yard and come home with much more than that piddling amount.

8. Around 50 Lbs 7018 welding rods
RoGrrr Responds:
How about only ten pounds of rod and then I can spend more time gluggin’ down that cold beer

Then have 40 pounds to burn on something else


MMMmmmmm, bee-e-e-e-e-r

12. One hydraulic breather
RoGrrr Responds:
I f’got about that. Thanks for the tip.

__________________

cabinman, who will become famous soon enough

sometimes, not, posting is the biggest challange,...
RoGrrr Responds:
Uhhhh,

Guess I’m not old enough on this board to understand that significance of that one
__________________

turnkey4099

My tank is a section about 16" long of 4"x6" sq tubing. A bit small per calculation but my oil only gets warm.
RoGrrr Responds:
I saw something on a tractor board where a fella added a temp gauge. So I think I’ll have a dedicated pressure gauge and a thermometer. Thanks

It is also good practice to place the tank so the tank outlet will be above the pump
RoGrrr Responds:
I had seen that somewhere else and with a vert shaft motor, the pump should be low enough to to do that easily.

It only takes a few revs to ruin a dry pump.
RoGrrr Responds:
Yup


__________________


mga

search here in this forum. basic hydraulic theory.
RoGrrr Responds:
I have a good grip on that but what Ineed is some of the practical stuff that would might ruin what I spent lots of time (and $$$$) building

Quote:
heater core from an ol junk car....
not sure if anyone has incorporated that yet onto their splitters.
RoGrrr Responds:
I guess I could have an auxiliary pump circulating thru the core. Necessary ? Not really. Nice to have ? Prolly.

my question is which gets over heated first: the splitter of the person using one?
RoGrrr Responds:
MmMMmmmmm, Beeee--e-e-e-errrrr


Quote:
On another note:
let his splitter warm up using 20W50
again, we have a thread here that talks about splitter oil. expert claims any oil
RoGrrr Responds:
I guess I’ll have to do some research on oil and see if, maybe WILDROOT CREAM OIL might be what turns on the ladi,,,,, oops, splitters


Quote:
exhaust was aimed wrong.
RoGrrr Responds:
and I deleted my EX-wife's crabbing

I really get tired of that cr&p


and, yes, there is nothing worse than having engine exhaust blowing on you while standing there splitting wood for several hours.

all engines make noise.
So I’ll make a diverter and echo chamber to reduce the noise and direct my ol’ lady’s bad breath away from me....

__________________


triptester

A log splitter can be a fun project to build, but even the most basic splitter will cost more to build than to buy
RoGrrr Responds:
DOH !


unless you can get most of the major components at low cost if not free.
RoGrrr Responds:
Cheap is the name of the game....

All 6" beams are not equal, the thickness of the web and flanges will differ with the weight of the beam.
RoGrrr Responds:
Bigger is better (?)


Hydraulic fittings 1/4" orifice
RoGrrr Responds:
Most people don’t think about little (?) things like this.
Thanks

A thin wedge requires less tonnage but greater travel to split, while a wedge with wings requires more tonnage but less travel.
RoGrrr Responds:
Good point. I hadn’t thought of it that way.

Hydraulic oil should be of the proper viscosity for the climate it is used, too thin can damage seals, too thick can damage pumps.
RoGrrr Responds:
Please explain this to me - thin damaging seals....

It seems that one simple question in amongst a bunch of educated, knowledgeable experts usually generates a whole bunch-ful of other questions. Thanks for all your thoughts and ideas.
RoGrrr

 

[turnkey4099]

<snippag>

The width of the push plate will also affect tonnage requirements.

??? Could you explain that? I don't see how that would affect the tonnage.

Harry K

 

[triptester]

??? Could you explain that? I don't see how that would affect the tonnage.

Harry K


When splitting wood the area opposite the wedge becomes a hinge point. As the wedge travels thru the block the wood will start to fold around the push plate. This is why push plates on some machines start to get rounded. With this hinge affect the force of the wedge is directed out to the opposite edges. An example of this is a wall with no bracing can be tipped with little effort but the further bracing is placed from the centerline of the wall more force is required to tip.
I first noticed this effect when splitting wood in the vertical position the splitter would start to rise as the wedge traveled thru the wood. After further testing I found that while requiring more pressure the wood popped apart quicker shortening cycle time.

 

[JackD_ME]

Where could someone find plans or drawings for making an impact splitter like the Super Split?

Not trying to hijack the thread, just thought there should/could be other options!

 

[ray benson]

Add a return line 10 micron filter to the list. Here is a pic of a hydraulic tank for someone that enjoys a beer or two.

 

[triptester]

I don't buy into that logic! ........though it may be a very, very small factor.

To test the hinge effect place a piece of 1/4" bar stock that extends beyond the push plate and split a large diameter block.
If you have a pressure gage on your machine take three large diameter blocks of wood splitting the first one as you normally would recording pressure. Split the next block with a piece of channel iron the width of the block between the block and the push plate to see how the wood splits and how much pressure it takes. Finally place a piece of angle iron vertically between the push plate and the block to see the pressure used.

 

[RoGrrr]

Well, the option for this splitter is that I have the cylinder and the pump so I am going to build a hydraulic splitter. So there !

And there are pics of your impact splitters all over the place.

Where could someone find plans or drawings for making an impact splitter like the Super Split?

Not trying to hijack the thread, just thought there should/could be other options!

 

[turnkey4099]

??? Could you explain that? I don't see how that would affect the tonnage.

Harry K


When splitting wood the area opposite the wedge becomes a hinge point. As the wedge travels thru the block the wood will start to fold around the push plate. This is why push plates on some machines start to get rounded. With this hinge affect the force of the wedge is directed out to the opposite edges. An example of this is a wall with no bracing can be tipped with little effort but the further bracing is placed from the centerline of the wall more force is required to tip.
I first noticed this effect when splitting wood in the vertical position the splitter would start to rise as the wedge traveled thru the wood. After further testing I found that while requiring more pressure the wood popped apart quicker shortening cycle time.

Okay, that makes sense, I think, but the difference would be too small to consider for a push plate of any reasonable width.

Well..., no, I don't think so as for that to have any effect the wood directly opposite the wedge would have to lift off the plate, the block travels through in one chunk, one split.

Again, if it is an effect, the force "lost" is too miniscule to consider.

Harry K

 

[RoGrrr]

Triptester
I understand your explanation of the physics involved and the description of footplates rounding. However, I would think that those bent footplates are simply under-designed (weak).
What I'm wondering is what pressures you saw in your research. I have to assume that you have a pressure gauge on your splitter, something which I plan to install as I build mine.
RoGrrr

<SNIP>
After further testing I found that while requiring more pressure the wood popped apart quicker shortening cycle time.

 

[triptester]

The pressure readings with a 5" bore cylinder increased by as much as 300 psi when going from a 6" wide push plate to a full width plate on 18"" block. The average reading increase was 100 psi. With a 5" cylinder each 100# of pressure equals 1 ton. This was the negative effect of a wide push plate.

The positive effect was the wood split with less travel of the wedge.

By themselves wedge and push plate designs may not makes a big difference but when combined can improve performance.

The combination of small details is why a Timberwolf splitter can cost 3 times as much as a similarly equipped MTD or Speeco, with same size engine ,pump, and cylinder.

 

[mga]

The pressure readings with a 5" bore cylinder increased by as much as 300 psi when going from a 6" wide push plate to a full width plate on 18"" block. The average reading increase was 100 psi. With a 5" cylinder each 100# of pressure equals 1 ton. This was the negative effect of a wide push plate.

The positive effect was the wood split with less travel of the wedge.

By themselves wedge and push plate designs may not makes a big difference but when combined can improve performance.

The combination of small details is why a Timberwolf splitter can cost 3 times as much as a similarly equipped MTD or Speeco, with same size engine ,pump, and cylinder.

so....would it make more sense to have the wedge travel into the wood, or use the standard push plate into a stationary wedge?

in other words, since the wedge has a small surface area, the tonnage should be constant if it travels into the wood....right?