Over my head with 064 project

[Cantdog]

HAHAHAHA!!! that what us peanut gallery guys are here for!!!!!

 

[olyeller]

Bad P&C

Well,I've taken the 064 down far enough to judge what's going on. I'm going to need a piston and cylinder because some numbnut before me probably tried to take the clutch off by shoving a screwdriver into the exhaust port. See those matching dimples in the top of the exhaust port and on the exhaust side of the piston? So I assume they are toast; now to read up again about how to fit the 066 Big Bore kit onto the 064.

This has been entertaining so far; like so many of you said, just jumping into this has solved a lot of the dread. Thanks to all of you who have chimed in on this thread to cheer me on and kick my a$$. But there's still much more to do...


Olyeller

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

Coach Sawwood would be proud

Way to take it on.

 

[Cantdog]

Unreal......That is the same exact damage my 70E that I spoke of earlier in this thread had!!! Maybe the same numbnutz!!! The only difference was that the divit in the top of the port on mine, the metal of the cyl was forced out into the bore. When she was pulled over it broke the ring and gouged a trench an 1/8" wide by 1/16" deep in the side of the piston the entire length of the stroke. That saw never started again That NLA piston was mint, still had all the horizontal machine marks!!!!

You're off to a good start!! Have a cigar!!!LOLOLOL!!!

 

[fatjoe]

You are absolutely right Joe. Not everyone is "Mr. Fixit" Nor is there any reason for people who are mechanically disinclined to think they need to be. But this started about Ken and his saw. Now though I do not know Ken personally and can't speak for or against his abilities, he has stated that he has taken a number of motorcycles apart and successfully reassembled and rode these. He also seems to be able to communicate well on mechanical issues and theories. So from this information I feel that with his previous mechanical experience that this saw should not drive him to the depths of despair preforming this rebuild. Point I'm trying to make is, this will only become a burden if he allows it to. Otherwise it should be a rewarding experience and fun too. He just has to allow himself to step away and get a new perspective if things don't go right.
On the other hand, I don't know squat about Stihl saws. Never owned one, may never own one. Now older Jonsereds and Huskys I do have some knowledge about. But if I had a Stihl that needed a complete tear down I would not hesitate to do it. Now a few yrs ago I would probably just got a different saw, but since joining this site and reading reams of very good information from accomplished saw folks, I view saws and what can be done from a completely different point.

If he needs there are people here that can walk him through this step by step with pics and video if necessary. That along with his own knowledge is why I believe this is possible. Gotta love AS!!!!!!!

I never said it wasn`t possible.You guys think I`m trying to discourage him.I`m not.He wanted to know if it was gonna be a hassel and a pain in the ars.It can be for someone their first time.Especially if they are not set up or prepared.I`m just being honest is all.I know he`s capable.I know he`ll get 10 different members willing to tell him how to do the whole thing.Thats not the point, He asked if it was worth his time and effort and in the long run if it will be more of a hassle than its worth.When he has a pile of different sized bolts and doesn`t know where they all go and has to look for the answer, that might be a hassle.When he takes all the case bolts out,and the case doesn`t just fall apart in two, and now he has to go to the hardware store to buy the right drill bit and buy angle iron to build a case splitting tool,and borrow his neighbors drill, that might be a hassle.Buying a flywheel puller might be a hassle.Then again, he probably has all the tools he needs in his garage.Honestly, I think the OP is more of a mechanic than he led us to believe.I`m just trying to prepare him for a challenge.Not a huge rocket science challenge, it`s just a chainsaw, but it is a challenge.If it turns into a hassle, thats on him.:biggrinbounce2:

 

[CHEVYTOWN13]

Brother Ken will have some tough and discouraging days and nights. No doubt about it. However, it's not a hot rod taking up the whole garage with body and motor work (I dig that myself though!) A small project compared to a garage build. Yes, money will be spent, but your 064 sleeper might just creep away from bounty's 660umpkin2:

A big thank you to bob aka rmh3481 for taking the time to walk me through porting and saws in general. To the point where he would write on tough situations, "Step back and relax. Or maybe this isn't for you." Believe me you, I wanted it. I truly enjoy working on saws now. I thank him for coaching me through some tough times.

Now it's Ron's turn to dish out some knowledge

 

[andrethegiant70]

Unreal......That is the same exact damage my 70E that I spoke of earlier in this thread had!!! Maybe the same numbnutz!!! The only difference was that the divit in the top of the port on mine, the metal of the cyl was forced out into the bore. When she was pulled over it broke the ring and gouged a trench an 1/8" wide by 1/16" deep in the side of the piston the entire length of the stroke. That saw never started again That NLA piston was mint, still had all the horizontal machine marks!!!!

You're off to a good start!! Have a cigar!!!LOLOLOL!!!

Yep. I inherited an 046 with that exact damage. No biggie, now you just need to go for the 066 top end!

Actually it's probably worth seeing if the there is deformation of the jug into the diameter of the bore. If not... keep the jug around, you never can tell. I've got a 371 jug with a nick like that in it... runs good.

 

[olyeller]

Cylinder still good?

Won't that divot in the cylinder cause the ring to snag? I assumed the cylinder was junk. Not true? Should I try a Meteor piston or go with the big bore?

Olyeller

 

[whitedogone]

Won't that divot in the cylinder cause the ring to snag? I assumed the cylinder was junk. Not true? Should I try a Meteor piston or go with the big bore?

Olyeller

I don't think the ring would be any more prone to catch. How far does it run up the jug? If you run it w/o a base gasket you might grind some of the rest of the top of the exhaust to blend it in.

 

[gemniii]

Ken -
Isn't it about time you start a new thread?
You sure don't sound over your head any more!!

 

[drill.daddy]

Well i read some of the post on here and alot of people make out this job to be way way more difficult than it should be . i offered old yeller my phone number as well so i could walk him thru what im refering to over the phone . and yes all you need is a few basic tools to do this . I will say that this in not the way stihl and husqvarna reccomends this be done , but it does work . The first saw i did was a 044 stihl , second 036 next a pair of 026 and last was an 064 , Im just saying some people make these out to be nightmares and it scares the people who havent done it before . this method i use was taught to me by an actual stihl certified mechanic. he kept it simple for me , and thats all im sayin is this is a simple process. im not saying my way is the way and the only way because it is not .. but it is very simple . i used a propane torch , brass hammer and put hte bearings in the freezer over night . As a matter of fact i know i have many case halves for 046 044 and i might have a 064 in my shop . ones that ive split down because someone had totaly trashed a saw and that one half or the other on the saw was salvageable .In everyones defense , the case splitting tools do work , i have a set i made at home . Fat joe if i came across as harsh i apologize , i just get tired of hearing people scare people into believing they cant do this job .

 

[olyeller]

Which P&C?

I've been doing a lot of reading on 064 builds that other AS members have done. Originally I was getting big-eyed about the aftermarket 066 BB kit but now I'm getting a little leery about grinding on the cases for clearance. Given the divot I have in the OEM cylinder at the top of the exhaust port, should I just grind that out and raise the exhaust port a bit in the process? The rest of the cylinder looks just fine; no scoring on the walls. Should I go with an 066 aftermarket P&C that won't require grinding on the cases? Has anybody run a stock 064 against an 064 wearing an aftermarket 066 P&C?

How bad does this divot look? will it grind out OK? Maybe I should stick with 85cc?

Chime in on this one,guys; inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks,

Olyeller

 

[parrisw]

I've been doing a lot of reading on 064 builds that other AS members have done. Originally I was getting big-eyed about the aftermarket 066 BB kit but now I'm getting a little leery about grinding on the cases for clearance. Given the divot I have in the OEM cylinder at the top of the exhaust port, should I just grind that out and raise the exhaust port a bit in the process? The rest of the cylinder looks just fine; no scoring on the walls. Should I go with an 066 aftermarket P&C that won't require grinding on the cases? Has anybody run a stock 064 against an 064 wearing an aftermarket 066 P&C?



How bad does this divot look? will it grind out OK? Maybe I should stick with 85cc?

Chime in on this one,guys; inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks,

Olyeller

To get rid of that divot, you'd have to grind a lot, and that would affect the timing a fair amount. You'd have to check it with a degree wheel to the top of the divot to see where the timing would end up. I'd get a new cylinder.

 

[drill.daddy]

just my opinion . if the divot isnt protruding into the cylinder . like a lip to hang something on . it shouldnt affect anything . if it is protruding just smoot it back down with the cylinder walls and throw a 40 dollar piston in it . if it screws up the piston all ur out is 40 dollars. just my opinion

 

[Cantdog]

Just thinking

This would have to be checked but if you were thinking about setting the squish by by eliminating the cyl base gasket, you might be able to reclaim most of what you would lose by cleaning that divit up. I don't know diddly about the big Stihls port timing characteristics, but most of the larger slightly slower turning motors can afford a few thousandths off the top of the port with no ill affects and pick up a few rpm at the same time. Again I defer to the more knowledgeable Sthil builders on this one. Just thinking if time is not and issue might give it shot as drilldaddy said perhaps a new meteor and you may be good to go. If it doesn't work you're only out $40.00 or so. Cyl does look good otherwise. Just thinking from the peanut gallery........

 

[roncoinc]

This would have to be checked but if you were thinking about setting the squish by by eliminating the cyl base gasket, you might be able to reclaim most of what you would lose by cleaning that divit up. I don't know diddly about the big Stihls port timing characteristics, but most of the larger slightly slower turning motors can afford a few thousandths off the top of the port with no ill affects and pick up a few rpm at the same time. Again I defer to the more knowledgeable Sthil builders on this one. Just thinking if time is not and issue might give it shot as drilldaddy said perhaps a new meteor and you may be good to go. If it doesn't work you're only out $40.00 or so. Cyl does look good otherwise. Just thinking from the peanut gallery........

I have to agree with the " mainah " on this one.. sandpaper and smooth it out so a ring dont catch and cheap piston and give it a go ! this is supposed to be a FUN learning thing now so why not ??
as confidence builds a BB kit can be down the road

 

[oscar4883]

just my opinion . if the divot isnt protruding into the cylinder . like a lip to hang something on . it shouldnt affect anything . if it is protruding just smoot it back down with the cylinder walls and throw a 40 dollar piston in it . if it screws up the piston all ur out is 40 dollars. just my opinion

:agree2:

 

[parrisw]

I've actually seen port timing altered that way believe it or not, they make a small cut in the middle of the ex port to alter timing.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Hey Poge, wasn`t it you who took the advice of someone to drill a hole in one of your 026 oil seaks and install a screw to take it out?If I recall you had a heck of a time with that.Another simple procedure..

Oh that was me, alright! First project and boy did I learn a lot. That little screw up cost me an extra 90 bux (a bargain, actually) to have a shop re-do the whole abomination -- which involved quite a bit of case cleanup where I gashed and mangulated it around the seal seat. Took some ribbing for my final choice of tools to remove the seal since the "easy way" didn't exactly work out as planned.

I won't try that method again and will probably opt for the modified Lisle puller approach next time!

Point is, I at least tried it even though my results were not what was desired or expected. But all's well that ended well in my case and I learned a valuable lesson the hard way which I certainly won't forget any time soon!

Poge

 

[fatjoe]

Well i read some of the post on here and alot of people make out this job to be way way more difficult than it should be . i offered old yeller my phone number as well so i could walk him thru what im refering to over the phone . and yes all you need is a few basic tools to do this . I will say that this in not the way stihl and husqvarna reccomends this be done , but it does work . The first saw i did was a 044 stihl , second 036 next a pair of 026 and last was an 064 , Im just saying some people make these out to be nightmares and it scares the people who havent done it before . this method i use was taught to me by an actual stihl certified mechanic. he kept it simple for me , and thats all im sayin is this is a simple process. im not saying my way is the way and the only way because it is not .. but it is very simple . i used a propane torch , brass hammer and put hte bearings in the freezer over night . As a matter of fact i know i have many case halves for 046 044 and i might have a 064 in my shop . ones that ive split down because someone had totaly trashed a saw and that one half or the other on the saw was salvageable .In everyones defense , the case splitting tools do work , i have a set i made at home . Fat joe if i came across as harsh i apologize , i just get tired of hearing people scare people into believing they cant do this job .

No apology necessary, take a look at the seal job in the above post.Someone told Poge, to change a seal, all he had to do was drill a hole in the seal and install a screw in it and it would pop right out.Take a look.That was a SIMPLE seal job,only cost him $90.00. Don`t get much easier than that! Simple job with homemade tools.I know the op can and will do the job, just trying to prepare him is all.Get the RIGHT tools for the job and then maybe it will be FAIRLY easy.Be prepared for some things to not go as EASY as everyone says, everthing gets easier the more you do it.Ken, I`m not trying to scare you, your a big boy and probably know more about engines than I`ll ever know.If I can do it, you certainly can.It`s very doable, but a PITA, without the right tools.