Pioneer chainsaws

[fossil]

Thanks Tim,
Will the P41 module mount to the Farmsaw cylinder? If I remember correctly the mounting bosses are different between the P41 and Farmsaw cylinders.

Certainly not a direct bolt up. The coil will fit but.....

You can see the boss for the module mount is vertical and is one cylinder fin forward compared to the Farmsaw




You can see the lower / rear module boss is one fin back compared to the P41. The area where the P41 coil sits appears to be the same on the Farmsaw but the first 3 fins from the cylinder base will have to be cleared for the coil.






The height of the mounting bosses for the modules is different as well. 3/4" for the Farmsaw and 1/2" on the P41.






With some bracket fab and some hacking and tearing, I think it could work.
I would be more inclined to use the P41 coil and a chip.

Let me know if you need anything else looked at. I'll leave them open for awhile.

 

[p61 western]

Thanks Tim,
Will the P41 module mount to the Farmsaw cylinder? If I remember correctly the mounting bosses are different between the P41 and Farmsaw cylinders.

The newer p42 and so on coils will mount up to the farmsaw cylinder with no modifications. I tried it with the farmsaw flywheel with not much luck. If you change the flywheel and starter though you would be in good shape.

 

[Lou]

I wish someone knew somebody with a 3d printer... I'm 99% convinced a good plastic starter could be duplicated easily and fairly inexpensively.
Unless I'm mistaken it is now possible to 3D print in metal... That would add to the cost but likely last forever.
What about the Evinrude coil? Somewhere I thought I read it was very simple to swap the laminations into that.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Certainly not a direct bolt up. The coil will fit but.....

You can see the boss for the module mount is vertical and is one cylinder fin forward compared to the Farmsaw

View attachment 634702


You can see the lower / rear module boss is one fin back compared to the P41. The area where the P41 coil sits appears to be the same on the Farmsaw but the first 3 fins from the cylinder base will have to be cleared for the coil.

View attachment 634704


View attachment 634705

The height of the mounting bosses for the modules is different as well. 3/4" for the Farmsaw and 1/2" on the P41.

View attachment 634706


View attachment 634707

With some bracket fab and some hacking and tearing, I think it could work.
I would be more inclined to use the P41 coil and a chip.

Let me know if you need anything else looked at. I'll leave them open for awhile.

Thanks Tim, this helps a lot.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

MM recently posted this about an Evinrude coil. Not sure it would apply to the smaller saws. (I'm liking the new Bookmark feature over here!)

Evinrude Coil for Pioneer

 

[pioneerguy600]

I wish someone knew somebody with a 3d printer... I'm 99% convinced a good plastic starter could be duplicated easily and fairly inexpensively.
Unless I'm mistaken it is now possible to 3D print in metal... That would add to the cost but likely last forever.
What about the Evinrude coil? Somewhere I thought I read it was very simple to swap the laminations into that.

There is a fair bit of exacting finishing and clearance work to duplicate the OEM starter parts , all the printed plastic I have seen comes out rather rough so it would need further finishing. My own Farmsaws are still functioning well, just keep the auto decomp working as it should.
The evinrude coil is a points type coil so it might work with a chip as long as there is room under the starter for it, they are rather large diameter.

 

[pioneerguy600]

The newer p42 and so on coils will mount up to the farmsaw cylinder with no modifications. I tried it with the farmsaw flywheel with not much luck. If you change the flywheel and starter though you would be in good shape.

As I had previously thought, just swapping on the P41 starter would not work but if enough parts are swapped over then it may be possible. I would need to actually physically put the P41 flywheel on to get the starter working, then try determining where the timing is, the plug should fire around 20 degrees BTC. I know that I can change the spark timing to any point on the rotation of the crank by changing the position of the flywheel relative to the crank position, been there done that very many times. However this is not the case for most, they are just looking for an easy bolt on fix, even changing the flywheel would be more than most would want to do, very few people are as handy as we on here. If the spark timing is off much either way this would not be good for an easy fix.

 

[2stroke_shaman]

When you changed the flywheel /crank position did you recut the keyway in the flywheel or just tighten the nut? I think Tim said it would work without the key.

 

[pioneerguy600]

When you changed the flywheel /crank position did you recut the keyway in the flywheel or just tighten the nut? I think Tim said it would work without the key.

You don`t need the key, it only acts as a alignment feature. The tight fit of the two tapers is what holds the flywheel in its orientation. I know I have more than 50 running chainsaws that have no key in them.

 

[paul hill]

Hi Jerry,

I just pulled the Farmsaw recoil off and tried the P 40 and P41 recoils. The P40 mounting bolts didn't quite line up but the 41 went onto the farmsaw no problem The flywheels are the same diameter and depth (or as close as I could get my vernier in there) on the P41 and Farmsaw so if the taper on the crankshafts are the same the flywheel should swap.
As far as the module goes, I would try the original module from the farmsaw to see if that worked. There's also a thread where a guy used a Chinese husky module using some brackets on a larger P series with great results. I tried a Chinese coil that Chris (DSS) gave me that is for a variety of Husky's on my Farmsaw with a few simple brackets and it worked like a charm as well even though the module laminations where only 1/2 over the magnets. It also worked very well on a Homelite XL-76.

Anything else you want measured while I have the covers off?

Any advice on getting the Husky coil to work? I followed the OP's instructions on adapting the Husky coil to a P51 and never got it to fire. I tried two different new Husky coils and struck out both times.

I finally gave up because my patience was getting thin with the whole thing. I realized that I didn't know as much as I thought I did! But, I have plans to try again soon.

I originally modified the Husky coil contact so the the curvature matched the 51 flywheel and I wondered if I made it unusable when i did the mods? Baking the original 51 coil in the oven got it running again though so it wasn't a total loss.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I havn`t tried the Husky coil conversion yet though I have done others and these conversions are not hard or that technical. The magnets in the flywheel just need to be the correct orientation for the module being used, these can be tested with a pencil magnet to determine the polarity. If the polarity matches the module and the module is installed with the correct gap it should produce spark. If I couldn`t get spark then I would need to know what saw the module was for, then check that saws flywheel magnets polarity and compare that to the Pioneers flywheel.

 

[fossil]

Any advice on getting the Husky coil to work? I followed the OP's instructions on adapting the Husky coil to a P51 and never got it to fire. I tried two different new Husky coils and struck out both times.

I finally gave up because my patience was getting thin with the whole thing. I realized that I didn't know as much as I thought I did! But, I have plans to try again soon.

I originally modified the Husky coil contact so the the curvature matched the 51 flywheel and I wondered if I made it unusable when i did the mods? Baking the original 51 coil in the oven got it running again though so it wasn't a total loss.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

I remember you having trouble with the swap.

Was the issue the saw wouldn't start or you couldn't get spark at the plug?

I am not any kind of an ignition authority. I would say more like a novice that does a bit of reading.


I did come across this which is somewhat unrelated but has some great easy to understand mag ignition info

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/lam/pt/support/faqs/ignition-system-theory-and-testing

 

[pioneerguy600]

I was told the Pioneer/Partner cut off saws used two different modules due to the flywheels having different magnet orientation, the N first followed by the S was the most common but there was supposedly some that run the opposite, S first with N following. These triggered modules need the correct orientation, they won`t produce spark otherwise.

 

[Walter Glover]

I can look at my P51 tomorrow.
The P41 is still running great with the Chinese Husky 365 coil.
That Farms setup looks like a Stihl coil might fit.......

 

[pioneerguy600]

I can look at my P51 tomorrow.
The P41 is still running great with the Chinese Husky 365 coil.
That Farms setup looks like a Stihl coil might fit.......

I have a Farmsaw running on a Stihl 1300 module, one mounting hole will bolt on while a second needs a bracket.

 

[fossil]

Farm saw on a Husky 254 China coil. Works well.

 

[paul hill]

I havn`t tried the Husky coil conversion yet though I have done others and these conversions are not hard or that technical. The magnets in the flywheel just need to be the correct orientation for the module being used, these can be tested with a pencil magnet to determine the polarity. If the polarity matches the module and the module is installed with the correct gap it should produce spark. If I couldn`t get spark then I would need to know what saw the module was for, then check that saws flywheel magnets polarity and compare that to the Pioneers flywheel.

Thanks, I'll check the magnets to see if they're aligned correctly.

 

[paul hill]

I remember you having trouble with the swap.

Was the issue the saw wouldn't start or you couldn't get spark at the plug?

I am not any kind of an ignition authority. I would say more like a novice that does a bit of reading.


I did come across this which is somewhat unrelated but has some great easy to understand mag ignition info

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/lam/pt/support/faqs/ignition-system-theory-and-testing

I couldn't get any spark to the plug. I played around with the orientation of the coil and the gap gut didn't get anywhere.

Reading about the ignition swaps has my curiosity up again and I need to tear into a saw to see what I can figure out.

 

[paul hill]

I can look at my P51 tomorrow.
The P41 is still running great with the Chinese Husky 365 coil.
That Farms setup looks like a Stihl coil might fit.......

That's the coil I was trying to get working on a 51.

 

[Walter Glover]

Paul, I will check here as well.