Ported 70cc work saws

[cre10]

I have a 441C and I'm not really impressed with it in stock form. It needs to go to Tennessee.

 

[Firewood Fanatic]

Now this is just my opinion, but I think the XPW thing is more CAD hype than anything else. I'm taking about ported saws now. Perhaps there's some merit to them stock, as they were designed to be used, but I believe the 71cc 372XP is the cats meow.

Last year I wanted to have a new saw ported, and I love the 372. I phoned Simon to get one "Simonized", he specifically asked me to get the "old" 71cc version. In our conversations he told me the 71cc version takes much better to modifications than the 75cc one's. All I know is the saw he built me runs fantastic and is a beast for cutting wood!!!

 

[nmurph]

...I only assumed that the extra cc's would be that much better when ported....

That can get you in trouble. Timing, port shape/length/angle, combustion chamber shape, etc...are also important. Cylinders can have inherent design parameters that can't be changed and limit the outcome.

 

[M&Rtree]

All this 441 talk and 372 talk, where's the videos of the two in the same log making a cut? Same chain, let's declare a winner?

 

[o8f150]

here is my masterboobed 372xp and its not even broke in good yet

 

[blsnelling]

All this 441 talk and 372 talk, where's the videos of the two in the same log making a cut? Same chain, let's declare a winner?

As strong as the 441 is, I don't see one beating a proper 372. YMMV. I'm not downing the 441 either. I'm just saying that the 372 is markedly stronger.

 

[blsnelling]

The 441 C is likely the best stock 70 cc bucking saw out there, and ported it is Randy's favorite. However, I have heard the 372 also responds very well to porting. The only Auto Tune saw over 70 cc is actually heavier than the 441 C (but in fairness, it is also more cc).

Are you leaving out saws like the 460/461? If so, then I would definitely agree with you.

 

[SierraWoodsman]

Now this is just my opinion, but I think the XPW thing is more CAD hype than anything else. I'm taking about ported saws now.

+1 Brad, There's very little difference between the two in terms of performance. Randy did both my 372 (71cc), and 372xpw (75cc) last fall. Seems like the XPW has a tad bit more huevos, but it's a close call.
Could be that he opened up the muffler a little more on the XPW. Of all the ported saws the 390 gained the most performance over stock.

 

[MustangMike]

All this 441 talk and 372 talk, where's the videos of the two in the same log making a cut? Same chain, let's declare a winner?

I think the difference will come down to personal preference. One porter may prefer one saw, the next the other. Same with Owners. The truth is, they will all get it done! Find what you like, and be happy!

 

[MustangMike]

here is my masterboobed 372xp and its not even broke in good yet

Looks very healthy, NICE!!!!

 

[Hedgerow]

As strong as the 441 is, I don't see one beating a proper 372. YMMV. I'm not downing the 441 either. I'm just saying that the 372 is markedly stronger.

Yes... 70cc class / ported / fastest in the cut / = Old school 372
They're the most efficient fuel/air pump out there...
Stock? 7900.....
Cause they're awesome...


And sexy...
And stuff...

 

[sunfish]

Yes... 70cc class / ported / fastest in the cut / = Old school 372
They're the most efficient fuel/air pump out there...
Stock? 7900.....
Cause they're awesome...


And sexy...
And stuff...

Yep, hard to beat a ported old school 372!

Same with a stock 7900

No need to go with the 75cc top end on the 372...But it don't hurt!

 

[Trx250r180]

I like a slower saw with more tourque ,but that's just me ,tourque works better for what i cut and the bars i run ,the 461 fits that perfect



if you run under a 28 inch bar a 372 will be a little faster

 

[blsnelling]

I like a slower saw with more tourque ,but that's just me ,tourque works better for what i cut and the bars i run ,the 461 fits that perfect



if you run under a 28 inch bar a 372 will be a little faster

That's a fair description of the 461. Their wide powerband makes them very user friendly.

My experience is that both a 440/460 hybrid and a 372 are both faster than the 461, even with a 28" bar and full comp chain buried in hardwood. A lot of guys would probably still choose the 461 though. It's just a very nice saw to work with.

Now for a hypothetical question. Does the 461 really have more torque than the others? I'm not a physicist, but I think not. Otherwise, it would be faster, right? You could just lean on it a little more to make up the difference. I think it simply has a flatter torque curve, but is still behind the other two I mentioned. Have fun with this. Don't take me too serious.

 

[M&Rtree]

Exactly the info i started this thread for. Just to help others and myself understand the difference in a fast saw and a torquey saw. I want a fast saw myself.

 

[blsnelling]

I believe a ported work saw should be both fast and torquey. If you kill the torque to get the RPMs, it's not a good work saw. On the other hand, I don't think you have to give up good RPMs to have a torquey saw. The way I port a 460/461 and a 372 are very different from each other. You just have to find what works.

 

[Trx250r180]

That's a fair description of the 461. Their wide powerband makes them very user friendly.

My experience is that both a 440/460 hybrid and a 372 are both faster than the 461, even with a 28" bar and full comp chain buried in hardwood. A lot of guys would probably still choose the 461 though. It's just a very nice saw to work with.

Now for a hypothetical question. Does the 461 really have more torque than the others? I'm not a physicist, but I think not. Otherwise, it would be faster, right? You could just lean on it a little more to make up the difference. I think it simply has a flatter torque curve, but is still behind the other two I mentioned. Have fun with this. Don't take me too serious.

i have had all these saws ,i have 2 hybrids done by different builders ,the one you ran runs better now with some tweaks done inside since then ,i had a ported xpw and ported 461 all by the same builder ,all very powerful saws but run different ,my 440 hybrids are my go to saw 90% of the time because of how they handle but my favorite falling saw is the 461 ,starting and stopping in the cuts ,the power starts easier ,must be the tourque ,seems like i can load that saw more than the others ,the xpw was a fast saw ,cutting cookies it won every time ,but as a work saw ,the ergo's of it were not my favorite ,handlebar angle ,and chain swaps were the main thing i disliked ,i swap my chains instead of sharpening when working ,the chain adjuster in the side cover was something i could not get used to ,i run 32 inch bars on all the saws ,in fir the chips load up the chain so the tourque to keep the chain spinning is helpful ,the other saws i listed fall trees ok but will fall off on power easier than the 461 loaded

 

[blsnelling]

That's all good stuff, and should help the OP understand what we're trying to convey. I totally understand why you prefer the 461. I doubt there's a better falling saw on the market. Maybe a 390XP.

 

[tacomatrd98]

I like a slower saw with more torque ,but that's just me ,torque works better for what i cut and the bars i run ,the 461 fits that perfect

I will definitely agree with this. I have 2 460s and a 461. For limbing and firewood I like the 460s better, but for bigger tree work the 461 pulls the chain much better when a 24" bar is buried. The 461 has great trigger response but the 460 seems to pick up quicker for limbing. I consider the 460 a "fast" saw and the 461 or "torquey" saw. 461 doesnt take as much finese to do the same job.

In the 70cc range I currently have a new 441cm, mm'd 460, ported (by me) 460, mm'd 461, 2171, and pre-xtorq 372XP. I have had a 576AT, 12mm 044, 044 BB and a 460W, but have sold them.

The 441cm IMHO is the pick of the litter for a STOCK 70cc saw. I find myself using the 441cm and a 241cm a lot. Really good 2 saw plan. Both are really user friendly, broad power, start telepathically, and the 441 pulls a 28" really freaking well. I run 20" ES on it and swap out to a 28" ES Light with 33RSF when I need something bigger. This works very well for me. The 241 is an awesome limbing saw and the 441 has the nuts to finish the rest of the job.

I havent timed cuts between any of them. I'm not worried about a few tenths of a second in a 15 second cut. I like a saw based on how it feels to use it. I had a 576...Smooth as glass, but felt like a pig compared to the 441. Cut times aren't that drastically different but they behave like 2 completely different animals.

Besides, good planning and a good work ethic will beat a fast saw anyday.

-AJ

 

[blsnelling]

BTW, my comments above are all about ported saws, per the OP's request. Porting is a serious game changer, especially with the likes of the 372. I don't find them so impressive in stock form. The 441C and 461 are both impressive with only a MM.