Procut sawmill

[carvinmark]

I have a portable mill that I picked up a few years ago. As far as I can tell it is ALL homemade from plans that www.procutportablesawmills.com sells. I cut mostly pine and white cedar for my log home business. I have had several saws on this mill and I just love it. I have had problems with saw bars.My question is,I am putting an oiler near the tip and wonder about using a mix of soap and water for cooling and lube, still using the bar oil in the saw.I have used a dishsoap bottle and shot it at the bar,it sure cleans the crap out of the bar and chain.If I knew how to post pics,I would.
I cut mostly pine from 12" to 30" and max length is 16'6". Anybody ever tried water,like a band mill?Will this hurt my bar or chain?

 

[coveredinsap]

Thanks for the link. Yes, that looks like a good setup. It's too bad that he doesn't currently seem to be selling complete units, only the plans. I particularly liked this page explaining the problems with bandsaw mills:

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/bandmills.htm

There is a tradeoff with everything, whether it be a chainsaw, bandsaw, or circular saw style mill. What works or is best for one person may not be best for another ....I personally think that the chainsaw style mills are a good solution.

As for the bar lubrication....I believe the circular mill sold by Bailey's uses water as a blade lubricant...as do a few others I think. I'm not sure how well it would work with a chainsaw, however....particularly the soap and water mixture, as it seems that that would tend to remove the protective coating of oil from the bar/chain rather than assist in cutting....making a big mess in the process. I was thinking more along the lines of a biodegradable oil in place of chain oil, some type of less toxic mix. Maybe mineral oil would be a good substitute.

Anyways, I'd like to see photos and hear more about your setup, if possible. What type of chainsaw, how it came into your possesion, etc.

Thanks again for the link.

 

[coveredinsap]

Also, look at the cost of milling with a chainsaw:

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/production.htm

"DIRECT COSTS OF MILLING LUMBER ON PROCUT OVER 7 YEARS INCLUSIVE OF NEW SAWS, BARS, CHAIN, GAS AND OIL....1¼ CENTS PER BOARD FOOT OR $12.40 PER THOUSAND"

That seems pretty darn cost effective to me. I see costs bandied about of around $1 or so per bd ft for other kinds of portable mills as a comparison.

 

[rb_in_va]

Thanks for the link. Yes, that looks like a good setup. It's too bad that he doesn't currently seem to be selling complete units, only the plans. I particularly liked this page explaining the problems with bandsaw mills:

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/bandmills.htm

Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not! Anyone know what it would cost to build this mill?

I personally think that the chainsaw style mills are a good solution.

Yes, that's pretty clear! I hereby nominate coveredinsap the official Arboristsite chainsaw mill advocate.

 

[WRW]

I have a portable mill that I picked up a few years ago. As far as I can tell it is ALL homemade from plans that www.procutportablesawmills.com sells. I cut mostly pine and white cedar for my log home business. I have had several saws on this mill and I just love it. I have had problems with saw bars.My question is,I am putting an oiler near the tip and wonder about using a mix of soap and water for cooling and lube, still using the bar oil in the saw.I have used a dishsoap bottle and shot it at the bar,it sure cleans the crap out of the bar and chain.If I knew how to post pics,I would.
I cut mostly pine from 12" to 30" and max length is 16'6". Anybody ever tried water,like a band mill?Will this hurt my bar or chain?

To answer your question...yes.

Soap is a good way to remove the lubricant that the chain needs, causing early failure. Maybe a better solution (no pun intended) would be to add some diesel fuel to the aux. oilers oil.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not!

It's easy to make all kinds of claims when your trying to "sell" something....

I use to be a chainsaw miller, and i've used a circle mill. I also have owned a band mill since 1996. I think i'll go by MY experences and by pass all the BS that someone who is SELLING something has to spread...

This chainsaw mill (csm) vs. band mill has been going on for a long time. Lots of guys go from a csm to a band mill, but none go from a band mill to a csm... That should be your first clue...

Rob

 

[WRW]

Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not!
QUOTE]


If you notice, on his production page, he is only cutting cants...not logs...so he is not running into any grit or rocks, but his description of the bandmill's faults has them cutting logs, not cants.

Some people will swallow anything!

 

[rb_in_va]

This chainsaw mill (csm) vs. band mill has been going on for a long time. Lots of guys go from a csm to a band mill, but none go from a band mill to a csm... That should be your first clue...

It is a universally accepted fact that the band mill is better than the chainsaw mill. Sap will figure that out if and when he runs a band mill.

 

[WRW]

BTW, carvinmark, that is a neat set-up. I don't believe I've ever seen anything quite like it.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Funny, I was dreaming something like this up not long ago. I hadn't seen these pictures before but they look alot like what I had visioned in my mind. Wierd-

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I was thinking more along the lines of a biodegradable oil in place of chain oil, some type of less toxic mix. Maybe mineral oil would be a good substitute.

Do a search here on "veggie oil" or "canola" and you'll find quite a lot of discussion. There are quite a few folks here that have gone to veggie oil only, been doing it for years, and won't go back.

I plan on switching myself.

 

[Newfie]

Also, look at the cost of milling with a chainsaw:

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/production.htm

"DIRECT COSTS OF MILLING LUMBER ON PROCUT OVER 7 YEARS INCLUSIVE OF NEW SAWS, BARS, CHAIN, GAS AND OIL....1¼ CENTS PER BOARD FOOT OR $12.40 PER THOUSAND"

That seems pretty darn cost effective to me. I see costs bandied about of around $1 or so per bd ft for other kinds of portable mills as a comparison.

Which seems like a slam dunk decision when looking at those numbers but it ignores the big question, "what is you time worth?" My time is valuable and a bandmill's production is vastly superior to any csm set-up out there.

That $1 per BF seems pretty arbitrary and overinflated. A bandmill cuts more BF per sharpening, the sharpenings cost roughly the same, new blades are cheaper than a loop of ripping chain and last as long. Fuel consumption per Bf is far superior on a Bandmill.

If you are milling as hobby or in small quantities, csm's are great and one of the reasons I used one. When the milling became a business offshoot the bandmill was the only practical and money making solution.

 

[Newfie]

And my bandmill uses water for lubrication as opposed to bar oil at $7 a gallon. Makes that $12.40 MBF look even less believable unless he's milling timbers as opposed to 4/4.

 

[coveredinsap]

Do a search here on "veggie oil" or "canola" and you'll find quite a lot of discussion. There are quite a few folks here that have gone to veggie oil only, been doing it for years, and won't go back.

Thanks, I'll do that. The only problem as I see it would be the tendency for the oil to go rancid over time....but maybe that has been addressed or is not an issue with something like olive oil. In either case, I'll take a look....thanks again. (Hey, speaking of canola...now that they've genetically engineered it to be 'Roundup ready', maybe they can genetically engineer it to stick to a chainsaw bar better )

It's easy to make all kinds of claims when your trying to "sell" something....

In other words, what you're saying is that the advertizing claims regarding Lumbermate 2000 are completely believeable, but they're not for this unit? That's somewhat laughable. If anything, this guy has backed up his claims with actual figures, which is a lot more than I can say for most manufacturer's products.

I have yet to see anyone dispute his cost per board ft price, or the expense and problems with keeping a bandsaw sharp and cutting. As for the clogging aspect of a bandsaw....that is totally believable by me, having just been literally 'covered in sap' milling this cedar tree. It wasn't even an issue with the chainsaw, other than the sap getting all over everything... and it never affected the chainsaw's cutting ability. Neither was it ever an issue cutting thru the sappy cedar bark.
I can hardly believethat it wouldn't, however, be an issue with a bandsaw. Particularly in an instance like this where the sap ran like honey.

This chainsaw mill (csm) vs. band mill has been going on for a long time. Lots of guys go from a csm to a band mill, but none go from a band mill to a csm... That should be your first clue...

That isn't the case according to the Procut site. He claims that bandsaw owners are frequently disappointed in their expensive purchase, and sell them to go back to chainsaw mills such as his. In fact, he claims that all but the most expensive bandsaw mills with the largest engines and thickest bandsaw blades cut wavy lumber that has to be run thru a planer before it's useful. That's a far cry from what you're claiming about them, although in your defense you did state that the bandsaw blade 'wanders' sometimes when it hits a knot, something that the Procut site also states...correctly it would appear.

No, I'm thinking that one of these Procut-style guide racks, set up with both a chainsaw mill powerhead and a chainsaw-powered bandsaw mill ...easily switchable depending on need, would be the ideal rig. ...And at pennies to the dollar compared to the other available options, including the Lumbermate 2000.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

The only problem as I see it would be the tendency for the oil to go rancid over time....

This thread jogged my memory about the use of vegetable oil. I've used it as lube on other similar applications but I hadn't thought of using it here. There shouldn't be enough oil getting into the wood to turn rancid. It would be a good idea to flush out the oiler of you plan to store your mill for more than a few months. Just keep the mill busy and you won't have a problem.

If you are still worried about it you can use mineral oil but it costs much more.

 

[coveredinsap]

And my bandmill uses water for lubrication as opposed to bar oil at $7 a gallon. Makes that $12.40 MBF look even less believable unless he's milling timbers as opposed to 4/4.

I used less than a half gallon of bar oil to mill approx 500 bd ft of cedar into 2" slabs. It was $4.97 for a gallon of premium bar oil. So...that's what?....$2.49 per 500 bd ft? That's $.00498 per bd ft....less than a half cent per bd ft in bar oil.

The consumables seems to be the biggest direct expense...gas, oil, and bar oil. Things like chains, bars, and chainsaws get spread out over so many board feet that the cost becomes negligible. For instance, a $1000 chainsaw would cost $0.1 per bd ft after milling 10,000 bd feet. I daresay they last a lot longer than that....mine isn't even broken in yet after 500 bd ft.
(And that isn't even factoring in the value of the lumber being milled....just the direct cost per bd ft. of milling it.)

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

"what is you time worth?"

Amen!

My chainsaw mill is for the logs I can't fit onto the hydraulic timberking I have access to. I enjoy milling with the chainsaw, but no matter how you look at it, you can't beat the producton and ease of a bandmill.

The waves in the boards can be prevented with proper setup AND a well maintained blade. But I've never seen a wave that a planer couldn't take out (well almost).

Each setup has it's place and none can replace the other.

I like them all!:greenchainsaw:

 

[carvinmark]

To answer your question...yes.

Soap is a good way to remove the lubricant that the chain needs, causing early failure. Maybe a better solution (no pun intended) would be to add some diesel fuel to the aux. oilers oil.

Thanks for the info,BELIVE IT OR NOT, I don't want to remove anything the chain needs, just want to add to it! I may try the diesel.

 

[carvinmark]

Thanks for the link. Yes, that looks like a good setup. It's too bad that he doesn't currently seem to be selling complete units, only the plans. I particularly liked this page explaining the problems with bandsaw mills:

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/bandmills.htm

There is a tradeoff with everything, whether it be a chainsaw, bandsaw, or circular saw style mill. What works or is best for one person may not be best for another ....I personally think that the chainsaw style mills are a good solution.

As for the bar lubrication....I believe the circular mill sold by Bailey's uses water as a blade lubricant...as do a few others I think. I'm not sure how well it would work with a chainsaw, however....particularly the soap and water mixture, as it seems that that would tend to remove the protective coating of oil from the bar/chain rather than assist in cutting....making a big mess in the process. I was thinking more along the lines of a biodegradable oil in place of chain oil, some type of less toxic mix. Maybe mineral oil would be a good substitute.

Anyways, I'd like to see photos and hear more about your setup, if possible. What type of chainsaw, how it came into your possesion, etc.

Thanks again for the link.

You are very welcome, I may try mineral oil,but have to checkm into the cost. I currently use a 395XP w/36"bar. I did some swaping for log furniture and some carvings for the mill.I ran band saw mills befor and thaught they were great,they are a hell of a lot fasyer,but they don't cut as flat.I don't cut for customers, I sell the finished product....I can make it any size I want.

 

[carvinmark]

chainsaw mill advocate

Although the Procut looks superior to the Alaskan set-up, he (the Procut designer) acts like the bandmill is susceptible to dulling from junk in the log, but the chainsaw is not! Anyone know what it would cost to build this mill?



Yes, that's pretty clear! I hereby nominate coveredinsap the official Arboristsite chainsaw mill advocate.

Just to be fair,lets face it,every saw that runs through dirt,ect.,will make you stop and deal with it. I love my C.S.M.