Sure I have. In many trees. On skinny bean poles, just for the hell of it? No. Why would I? Its called the law of averages. Why tempt fate? My understanding of the effects on the stem (one with little taper, none the less) from removing weight, or even adding weight.. Parallel loading in general I guess, dictates that I do everything I can do to avoid being solely connected to that tree. No one is saying you can't do it, or that the next one will break her leg.. But, push the odds long enough, and you'll get a jollylogger learning experience, in my opinion. Not that its worth much.
Rigging...rope or just drop?
- Thread starter Bill Stradtman
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ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
I see, well I never climb for the hell of it but I see your 30. In 1982 I was climbing around 20 trees per day 3 or 4 were burning bean poles with little taper for around 5 dollars per hour and to keep your mommy's power on; so it weren't fer nothing I suppose"just saying"
Hahaha, you guys all have these grizzled "back when I" "when we all used to" "how I dun always dun it". Im sure there are plenty of you guys climbing bean poles. Power right to yas. And apparently to your mothers houses...
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Well I can't speak for "you guys" but it was my experience that the work needed done and a helo or crane was not optional, if that is grizzled, then I guess I am. The point was, being over 30 years never had a failed stem. I did push the envelope at ten years in the industry when I was 30. I climbed some dead stuff with peckerwood holes clean through them I would NOT climb today. Miraculously, I survived that ignorance but it was not by complete luck that I did ! Thing is; I worked at the start of many changes in our industry and many more since. I remember thinking about the old school before my time climbing with bowline on the bite saddles and had to tip my hat to them, as that "is grizzled ".
Fair enough. I'm still tying into separate TIP. If I can't, I'll kick it to the guys like you. The "grizzled"s. My son won't remember grizzled. Hell remember his old man taking a heavy 20' top out of a dowel, and splatting.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Well I agree I always try to find a separate tip but It did appear unavailable in this case. Oh and when I climb a bean pole i normally don't rig to it its bomb or swing to remote anker point but hey send em my way I can deal with them
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
No, I'm not a bird watcher, but I'm not judging you either.
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
Well, if you can't do it, it's best to "kick it" to the pros?
You go em my man. Keep in mind.. I'm not saying that they CANT be done. I'm not saying the don't HAVE to get done. I'm just not doing them without remote tips. I've almost never come across one that i'll bottle because I suspect a popped stem. But, judging by the pictures (and that's all I can do) of the post that was cited.. I would have look at that taper/species and said.. ****.. I dunno.Well I agree I always try to find a separate tip but It did appear unavailable in this case. Oh and when I climb a bean pole i normally don't rig to it its bomb or swing to remote anker point but hey send em my way I can deal with them
You don't have to necessarily snatch a top to blow the stem out. There's a bending moment, or like a push back type force on the stem loading it laterally, as the hinge starts to separate readying for release.
Anyways, this is pointless and off topic. I don't see the point in taking any extra risks when a situation presents itself where it seems those risks might be slightly higher due to whatever. Others don't think about it much, and go about their days.
Either way, everyone is here to argue about it, so I suppose either I'm wrong, or its moot.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Nahh bro your 100% right that if you don't feel safe don't do the job. I have bid cranes in on several jobs I knew I would not get because my price was 3 times higher than any competitor. Whats weird was, one guy asked why mine was so high and when I explained what would happen if a crane was not employed he signed up and I performed the work. Its rare though that I bid crane and if I do bid one, "it's needed to do the job".
I have found that a crane often makes my jobs cheaper to do. Not that often, but it sure has paid off for me.
We did a large silver maple a couple of years ago that was perched right at the end of the back porch. The only way out was through a 28" gate...through all the landscaping and the far distance around the house too. Over $4k for that job, it was packed up, raked up, and hauled off only 6 hours later. Crane was lifting out chunks and dropping them in the street for my bobcat to load. Yes, he could have set the logs on our trucks, but it was faster to land in the street and return for the next chunk.
The last chunk was the root flare. At 2500lbs and 70' of reach, it shook the 30 ton crane up off his front pedestal when the stump shifted a few feet downhill. It would have been a disaster had the stump not already been on the ground level. 5 minutes later, it was on a truck. With no crane, we would probably have been slicing and dicing for an hour just to get rid of the stump.
We did a large silver maple a couple of years ago that was perched right at the end of the back porch. The only way out was through a 28" gate...through all the landscaping and the far distance around the house too. Over $4k for that job, it was packed up, raked up, and hauled off only 6 hours later. Crane was lifting out chunks and dropping them in the street for my bobcat to load. Yes, he could have set the logs on our trucks, but it was faster to land in the street and return for the next chunk.
The last chunk was the root flare. At 2500lbs and 70' of reach, it shook the 30 ton crane up off his front pedestal when the stump shifted a few feet downhill. It would have been a disaster had the stump not already been on the ground level. 5 minutes later, it was on a truck. With no crane, we would probably have been slicing and dicing for an hour just to get rid of the stump.
Oh, for heaven's sakes. It was just another aspen. 5 degree lean, sounded good at the base, healthy canopy, 16-18" dbh, tapered to 6-8" where I topped it. Just happened to have dry rot at the base. I suppose I could have taken a core sample and seen that, but there were no outward red flags. Believe me, I've second guessed myself half to death, but It was just another tree right up til it failed.
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
Yep, core sample, send it to a lab for analysis, get the EPA to inspect for possible environmental conflicts...... aaaahhhh screw it, just climb it.
Or use a remote TIP when youre familiar with how and why stems fail. Search that thread. I CANT be the only person to have mentioned it. You must have missed when it was talked about that it was never mentioned the CANT, or DONT HAVE to be done. You fall into the category of ignorance is bliss. Tulip poplars beware! Hahahaha
I'm guessing you've never had to use a secondary TIP. The results aren't much better.
I do quite often on removals I have any doubt about. What might be the hindrance? Lanyard/redirect issues? Non issues with a bit of forethought. Mitigations can be made. Easily. Just takes a moment to set aside the " just climb it " mentality and use your noggin.
As a matter of fact, I just read your thread in its entirety. I'm almost echoing another members posts. "I thought everyone knew that?" Well, there we go. There's another person who puts his safety first. Seems like he really knows his sh*t.
I didn't ask if you'd set one up, I asked if you've ever actually had to use one.
