Shaver Improvement Forum.... one year later

[John D]

more pictures,first one,look how poorly the top plate was welded on,my 12 yr old can lay a better bead,it looks to be a poor weld from a mig welder with not nearly enough heat,and going way too fast to get any type of penetration.I cleaned the entire length of the tank with parts cleaner,and applied a bead of silicone sealer along the entire length.There is no way it was sealed,although I didnt see signs of rust anywhere.I did it as a precaution.

2nd pic is the rear tank on left side(as viewed from front).Clearly again there is exposed metal.I put a small spot of expanding foam inside the ends of all the metal tubing to stop air movement thru them as well.

3rd pic you can see the insulation i added along the top of the tank,I did this on both sides.I taped it up to keep it in place.I didnt add any extra along the entire length as i felt it wouldnt help,it would have compressed the insuation that was already there,and compressed the new insulation I added,reducing there performance.

 

[John D]

first pic is the right side going back together after i added insulation.
second picture is the front before going back together after adding insulation
third pic is front panel,and my messy work area while in progress.

 

[John D]

Finally the front door openings prepped for sealer.I used a scraper and wire brush to clean the area,also a few cans of parts cleaner as well. I used 5 tubes of black silicone sealer to reseal the front of the unit.I did a much better job than shaver did.Hopefully the front top seal will hold up a little longer than there job did,time will tell. Overall I hope my time was worth it,I now have a better understanding of where everything is with this unit.I think all things being equal I will use less wood,how much less remains to be seen.I should be firing up here in a few weeks,depending on temps,the coldest its been is 39 at night now twice,and the house never got below 68,so need for heat yet.

 

[headleyj]

John D - nice work and thank for the details and the pics....it really helps those (me) who are tentative about yanking the sheet metal.

 

[hypothesis]

John D, I can only imagine that you'll reap the benefits of your labor. I too yanked the panels off and added extra insulation. I'm anxious to fire it up and see how it performs this season.

 

[headleyj]

so Sunday I'm planning on ;
- Removing sheetmetal and reinsulating (have 2 rolls left over from house R24 I think? (24" wide)
- POR-15-ing framework (it'll take time to dry for sure)
- Installing Ranco controller with drywell (have copper well made up)
- Installing 6x36 DW insulated pipe (thank you for the Ace Hdwe PN!!)
- Installing overflow/ steam fix (2 sec job there)
- Resealing everything (have 1 caulk tube of the Black RTV Silicone) including DHW coil plate

and I think that's it....

oh! should prolly get pipe insulation huh for the PEX in the back there - that'd be a no brainer.

?'s
1. Did anyone use rigid insulation anywhere instead of batts? If so why?

I've got tools covered, but if there's something oddball, fastener-wise or a "man it'd been alot easier if I had _______" please let me know what ya'll ran into. I hate to have to run into town during a project...we're 30 minutes from anywhere.

 

[John D]

headleyj, i needed 5 tubes of black silicone all together..I spent over 30 dollars on it alone.I did seal the entire top plate to the boiler,see the welds in my pic,and the front door needed 2 tubes alone,the ash pan and ash pan door studds a tube,and the door posts,water fill valve and vent another tube......

 

[headleyj]

headleyj, i needed 5 tubes of black silicone all together..I spent over 30 dollars on it alone.I did seal the entire top plate to the boiler,see the welds in my pic,and the front door needed 2 tubes alone,the ash pan and ash pan door studds a tube,and the door posts,water fill valve and vent another tube......

you're talking tubes - do you mean full size caulk gun size tubes, or the small tubes like what you get when you're slappin a valve cover back on?

 

[John D]

you're talking tubes - do you mean full size caulk gun size tubes, or the small tubes like what you get when you're slappin a valve cover back on?

Im talking full size caulk gun tubes! im gunna buy it in 55 gal drums next time j/k. Trust me,pull back the insulation on the sides at the top,and look at the top plate weld,mine was horrible,id seal the entire top plate,if its leaking anywhere the steam will make a mess of the insulation and rust the framework....that only took a tube,and a few minutes too do.

 

[headleyj]

Im talking full size caulk gun tubes! im gunna buy it in 55 gal drums next time j/k. Trust me,pull back the insulation on the sides at the top,and look at the top plate weld,mine was horrible,id seal the entire top plate,if its leaking anywhere the steam will make a mess of the insulation and rust the framework....that only took a tube,and a few minutes too do.

gotcha, wow 5 caulk tubes!!! Holy crap! That's almost $100 in silicone alone! wow! Thanks for the heads up man, guess I can always return them if I don't need them. I saw your pics, yeah those beads looked pretty bad.

If you had it to do over gain would you still silicone it or would you JB weld it (I don't have a welder, but have a buddy who does welding and has a rig on his truck...hmmmmm...just now thought of that )

 

[fletcher0780]

?'s
1. Did anyone use rigid insulation anywhere instead of batts? If so why?

I'm going to use rigid insulation, I have the sheets in my garage waiting to go, just waiting to finish up the shed over my boiler before I pull the panels off. I have the high density silver foil covered 1.5" 4x8 sheets ($25 ea. at home depot). I figured they aren't prone to losing their R-value when they get wet like fiberglass, they do a better job of stopping air infiltration, I can cut them to size to just barely fit inbetween the square tubing, then use the metal tape to seal everything up. The only place I'm not going to use them is on the top of the tank because of the chimney pipe, but I have that packed full with fiberglass anyway. FYI, I got the insulation idea from my thermospa hot tub, they are one of the only manufacturer's to no completely seal the tub with spray in foam. They used rigid boards custom cut to fit in all the voids.

 

[headleyj]

I'm going to use rigid insulation, I have the sheets in my garage waiting to go, just waiting to finish up the shed over my boiler before I pull the panels off. I have the high density silver foil covered 1.5" 4x8 sheets ($25 ea. at home depot). I figured they aren't prone to losing their R-value when they get wet like fiberglass, they do a better job of stopping air infiltration, I can cut them to size to just barely fit inbetween the square tubing, then use the metal tape to seal everything up. The only place I'm not going to use them is on the top of the tank because of the chimney pipe, but I have that packed full with fiberglass anyway. FYI, I got the insulation idea from my thermospa hot tub, they are one of the only manufacturer's to no completely seal the tub with spray in foam. They used rigid boards custom cut to fit in all the voids.

good to know - I'll pick up a few sheets just incase - thanks man.

 

[urhstry]

.....The only place I'm not going to use them is on the top of the tank because of the chimney pipe, but I have that packed full with fiberglass anyway......

What do you mean by this? I was going to lay a nice sheet of 2" blue panels on the botom and then layer R-19 over the top. Do you mean because of the heat and possible melting?

 

[fletcher0780]

What do you mean by this? I was going to lay a nice sheet of 2" blue panels on the botom and then layer R-19 over the top. Do you mean because of the heat and possible melting?

yeah, that chimney gets pretty hot, I think if I got a good fire going inside it the foam would catch on fire.

 

[user 28181]

A low budget chimney extension...6 x 5 reducer fits tight inside the shaver pipe,a small rolled over lip on the bottom piece thats screwed over the outside of the reducer takes up the gap on the outside, keeps it snug.. Three 2 footers on top was easy to lift off for cleaning...didn't drip til the reducer rotted out..and hasn't blow off...yet

 

[Windwalker7]

gotcha, wow 5 caulk tubes!!! Holy crap! That's almost $100 in silicone alone! wow! Thanks for the heads up man, guess I can always return them if I don't need them. I saw your pics, yeah those beads looked pretty bad.

If you had it to do over gain would you still silicone it or would you JB weld it (I don't have a welder, but have a buddy who does welding and has a rig on his truck...hmmmmm...just now thought of that )

Where are you guys finding the black, hi-temp silicone in the caulking tube size? All I can find are the little tubes you get at auto parts stores.

 

[fletcher0780]

Where are you guys finding the black, hi-temp silicone in the caulking tube size? All I can find are the little tubes you get at auto parts stores.

All I can find is the red/orange 600* stuff in caulk tubes.

 

[ngzcaz]

When I originally got my unit there were a few spots that didn't look to be sealed properly. I called Ben Shaver and they sent 2 regular tubes of black RV sealant ( like you put in a caulking gun ) no charge so they have to be out there.

Re : blue insulation.. I wouldn't use that stuff w/in 2 inches or so of the chimney. Might not burn but it might melt and make a mess. If one would put an 8 inch black pipe ( leave it open and put it around the Shaver pipe ) then S.S. or aluminum tape it shut ( stuff it with unfaced fiberglass first ) you could put most anything around it and insulate the chimney to boot. I wouldn't even attempt to snap it shut in case it has to be removed. You could even angle it with at the same pitch as the roof for a snug fit. At this point I'm more interested in finding something to insulate the bottom without removing any panels. Lots of possibilities but no action on my part yet.

:greenchainsaw:

 

[fletcher0780]

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-24105-Ultra-Black-Temp/dp/B000HBNU9U/ref=pd_sbs_auto_2

 

[trshmn]

All I can find is the red/orange 600* stuff in caulk tubes.

fletch, the red is better than the black, black is only 500*, I can find the black around here at every hardware store, but the red I got from a friend that works at a fiberglass plant.