Stihl 036 Pro lean seizure

[eichhoma]

I have had a Stihl 036 Pro since 2002 and it has been a fantastic saw, started great, ran great, never a days problem.... until about 2 weeks ago.

Was using the saw to cut some firewood, and it suddenly died on me a couple times, then it never started again. took it to the local dealer, and it had no compression. when they opened it up, the piston was all galded up and the cylinder was galded over about a 1/2" area. Says its trashed, and wants pretty much the price of a new to one to fix it. needs new piston, rings, gasket kit... and the labor to fix it... all in all, will be about 550 bucks to fix. I cant say how disapointed I am about this, but at the same time... I cant in all honesty say that I had very fresh fuel in it, or that I used a little extra mix for being such a cold day. It was in the teens that day. I am assuming this is my fault. The dealer told me lean seizures are getting more and more common with todays ethanol fuel and what not....

is this common? anyone else experience this?

I am thinking about just parting mine out on ebay, and just going and getting a new one. I am contemplating gettin the MS361.... is that todays comparable model to my 036 Pro? Will it accept my old chains and bars from my 036 Pro?

What can anyone tell me about that saw? any advice, suggestions, are welcomed. as you can see, I am a new guy here! Thanks in advance!

 

[Work Saw Collector]

If I couldn't fix it myself, I would sell it and get the 361 it is a good saw there are some threads here on how good it is, search MS361 or cancer ha ha.

 

[TRI955]

Buy the parts and I'll help you fix it.....PM me....

 

[Work Saw Collector]

reputation added, now thats helping

 

[eichhoma]

Thanks Tri... PM sent.....

 

[eichhoma]

I always ran 50:1.....
and it was very cold....

Is that the majority of the problem? I have seen threads in here about fuel mixtures..... would running 32:1 have been safer? If I repair this one or go with a new MS361, what should the fuel mix be? thanks!

 

[teacherman]

You need to find out what caused the lean seizure... could be an air leak from a number of places, insufficient fuel from the carb, running at less than full throttle in the cut (the carb has no mid circuit, so is starved for fuel at half throttle). Could be crank seals. If you are patient and attentive, you will find a lot of help and info here on this site. You can likely repair the saw yourself and save hundreds of dollars, as well as the satisfaction of learning a new skill. The 036 Pro is a really cool powerful mid-sized saw. I have one that got corroded in the case and needs new bearings and seals---a bit above my pay grade to fix it, but I do look forward to getting it up and running again.

If you part it out, maybe I will buy the crankcase from you if it looks good on the outside....(mine looks almost new on the outside, and I want the saw to look good when I get it going again)

Good luck!

 

[eichhoma]

You need to find out what caused the lean seizure... could be an air leak from a number of places, insufficient fuel from the carb, running at less than full throttle in the cut (the carb has no mid circuit, so is starved for fuel at half throttle). Could be crank seals. If you are patient and attentive, you will find a lot of help and info here on this site. You can likely repair the saw yourself and save hundreds of dollars, as well as the satisfaction of learning a new skill. The 036 Pro is a really cool powerful mid-sized saw. I have one that got corroded in the case and needs new bearings and seals---a bit above my pay grade to fix it, but I do look forward to getting it up and running again.

If you part it out, maybe I will buy the crankcase from you if it looks good on the outside....(mine looks almost new on the outside, and I want the saw to look good when I get it going again)

Good luck!

Thanks teacherman, I appreciate the info.
They looked into it as far as checking the carb; they said that looked good, had good in-tank fuel line, good filter, and otherwise looked really good. The service manager said he feels it was due to it being so cold and 50:1, and over time, the ethanol is casuing problems with these saws. he said Stihl recognizes it as a problem, and are working on trying to come up with a carb that can handle the ethanol, but not there yet. he said they call this "acceptable loss" which really steams me. I would prefer to keep mine if it can be done reasobnably. My mechanical skills are mediocre at best.
This saw is is in ammaculate condition, not even any scratches on it, just the light ones on the bottom, It only gets used a few times a year for firewood, wood heat in the house. when it gets used, it really gets used, but I keep it clean, well maintained. I just dont exactly have the tools or the know how to do this myself.

 

[DarylB]

I feel your pain. My 660 just leaned out on me this past weekend while cutting a stump. Only toasted the piston&rings, jug was ok. Found out the plug was too hot and the Rpms were a tad high (13.2k). Re tached, checked & new piston/rings ran me $130 + a junk saw trade in. Good luck with your fix.

 

[Erick]

Before this turns into another oil thread....

You were fine at the 50:1 and your dealer is somewhat correct.

A traditional "lean seize" is caused when there is not enough fuel/mix in the incoming charge.

Another way of looking at it is that there is to much air/oxygen in the fuel/air mix... right. There is more than one way to add oxygen into the incoming fuel charge.

One way is to adjust the mixture screws on the carb and physically reduce the amount of fuel in the charge making it "leaner"... this the way we all know and are familiar with.

Another way is to add the oxygen directly into the fuel itself. When you add ethanol into the fuel mix it brings with it more oxygen..... read on the pump and you'll see it says "oxygenated" fuel. That oxygen in the fuel is what is causing the unexplained lean seizers the dealers are seeing. If your saw was set up on the edge running non oxygenated fuel it will be lean when you run it on E-10 and could cause a failure.

I'm not saying that’s what happened in your case but it is a possibility. Did your dealer perform any checks before disassembly to pinpoint the cause of the failure???

 

[showrguy]

baileys has a replacement p/c kit for your saw, they added it right after i bought a used one for mine,,,,dayummm
anyway, have your dealer do a vacuum test on it before it's totally apart, that'll tell ya if you had a leak or not (atleast in the case area)...
i rebuilt/ported mine with help from lots of guys here.......it was alot of fun too !!
or, you could just send it to me and buy a new one, lol.

 

[Brian VT]

needs new piston, rings, gasket kit... and the labor to fix it... all in all, will be about 550 bucks to fix.

My BIL was in the same boat with his MS360. I just fixed it for him with $60 in parts.

 

[jburlingham]

If Tri is willing to help, Id fix it. Its a great saw and you can probably get the parts you need cheap enough. Let him help you Resurrect the awesome saw and with the money save by him some booze and then rep the hell out of him.

 

[teacherman]

Thanks teacherman, I appreciate the info.
They looked into it as far as checking the carb; they said that looked good, had good in-tank fuel line, good filter, and otherwise looked really good. The service manager said he feels it was due to it being so cold and 50:1, and over time, the ethanol is casuing problems with these saws. he said Stihl recognizes it as a problem, and are working on trying to come up with a carb that can handle the ethanol, but not there yet. he said they call this "acceptable loss" which really steams me. I would prefer to keep mine if it can be done reasobnably. My mechanical skills are mediocre at best.
This saw is is in ammaculate condition, not even any scratches on it, just the light ones on the bottom, It only gets used a few times a year for firewood, wood heat in the house. when it gets used, it really gets used, but I keep it clean, well maintained. I just dont exactly have the tools or the know how to do this myself.

eichoma, are you near KC? I bet the cylinder can be saved, and if there isn't another AS member closer to you, maybe I could help. PM me.

 

[TRI955]

eichoma, are you near KC? I bet the cylinder can be saved, and if there isn't another AS member closer to you, maybe I could help. PM me.

I'm gonna get together with him and help him out, I think we should be able to save the cylinder. Some rep headed your way teacherman!!!

 

[Erick]

eichhoma, Chances are that you can clean up and reuse the jug. Depending on which way you wanted to go an aftermarket piston kit can be as little as 30.00 add a few bucks for a base gasket and you could be up and running in a couple of days. If you like the saw and longevity is an issue I would suggest using a factory piston kit which is probably gonna run you 125.00 or so. If you want to go aftermarket I'd suggest you not buy the cheapest one you can find, I'd go with one of the Italian aftermarkets like Tecomech (sp?). I've used a few and can say they are really good pistons, Meteor (sp?) seems to be making a good name as well, both are mid priced kits and can be had under $50.00 or $60.00 most days. I've seen some piston and ring failures with some of the cheaper "nese stuff and really haven't been to impressed.

It's a real easy repair and I'm sure you can do it just fine.


......... but if I were you I'd take Tri up on his offer if for no other reason than to get a better look at his avatar in person.

 

[Lakeside53]

yes... Not a 50:1 problem... And yes, you need a pressure test no matter what looks good...

P&C - if the cylinder can't be saved, try to find a Tecomec rather than a Chinese set... Infinitely better...

My first choice would be to save the cylinder and use a new OEM piston/rings. I might just have one lying around cheap.. heck, I might even have a decent used cylinder.

EDIT: lol Erick was saying the same things as I typed...

 

[blly8325]

Your Stihl 036

I have had a Stihl 036 Pro since 2002 and it has been a fantastic saw, started great, ran great, never a days problem.... until about 2 weeks ago.

Was using the saw to cut some firewood, and it suddenly died on me a couple times, then it never started again. took it to the local dealer, and it had no compression. when they opened it up, the piston was all galded up and the cylinder was galded over about a 1/2" area. Says its trashed, and wants pretty much the price of a new to one to fix it. needs new piston, rings, gasket kit... and the labor to fix it... all in all, will be about 550 bucks to fix. I cant say how disapointed I am about this, but at the same time... I cant in all honesty say that I had very fresh fuel in it, or that I used a little extra mix for being such a cold day. It was in the teens that day. I am assuming this is my fault. The dealer told me lean seizures are getting more and more common with todays ethanol fuel and what not....

is this common? anyone else experience this?

I am thinking about just parting mine out on ebay, and just going and getting a new one. I am contemplating gettin the MS361.... is that todays comparable model to my 036 Pro? Will it accept my old chains and bars from my 036 Pro?

What can anyone tell me about that saw? any advice, suggestions, are welcomed. as you can see, I am a new guy here! Thanks in advance!

Don't get too upset...I know, i know, it's hard to part w/ one of your baby's. I'm rather new to this site too. I joined cause my 371 xp crapped out on me. The vast amount brain knowledge you can gain on here is awsome. I got some great advice from excess650. I never did much 2 stroke work just auto and small 4 strokers. Actually after i got my top end rebulit I realized 2 strokes are easier to work on. That's just me though. But anyway it seems like from what you said from your thread that your cyl. is probably salvagable. I picked up a pist. n ring kit from Bailey's. If your cyl. isn't scored and just has aluminum build up from the piston you can get away w/ some light sanding w/ 220 grit. If it's really built up w/ alum. Muriatic acid and some Q-tips will get it off. (Remember I'm telling you what I did for my Husky 1997 371 xp). So I got my kit in the mail. It felt like X-mas that day. Took a piece of 220 grit and went to town on my cyl. My cyl. was messed up on the exhaust side. I got the alum. off then I borrowed a cyl. hone from autozone, honed out my cyl w/ a decent amount of oil. Just a light run to get some cross hatch. If you don't have a piston ring clamp and you have big hands get one. It's just really hard to manipulate those rings and pist. to get back into the cyl. Oh yeah by the way the cyl should have an arrow on top showing you exhaust port direction. Ooops I forgot since that your saw will be apart you might as well change the gasket, and the cyl. crank bearing too. Air infiltration will cause damage to your saw too. Oil up the cyl w/ some oil and put the head back onto the piston. Loctite the head bolts. Get a new plug. And try to fire her up. I know this sound like alot to take on, but it's really not too hard. The Vetrans on this site will sure tell you if I left something out. Oh yeah if you go onto Youtube and type in chainsaw piston and ring replacement you should get some good video. It may not all be chainsaw mat'l but it will definetely give you an idea on DIY. I did my top end and screamed on the 3rd pull. LIKE A BANSHEE...GOOD LUCK

 

[Erick]

EDIT: lol Erick was saying the same things as I typed...

They say great minds think alike...... :crazy1: you should be scared.

 

[eichhoma]

Thanks for all the great information and feedback fellas! I get on a lot of forums and this by far is the most cordial and helpful! Tri is gonna gonna hook me up, I am bringing him the saw today! Might even look into that muffler mod too if he is interested in doing it. :greenchainsaw: