Throwbag nightmare

[M.D. Vaden]

Some of you know I don't climb. But I did keep a bag in case I needed to pull a limb sometime for whatever reason. But the bag never got used.

A few months ago, I helping someone measure coast redwoods. And their "window" was blocked to aim the laser rangefinder at the top leaders. They found another window, but next time out, I brought my throw bag and about 40 feet of line.

We encountered another limb blocking a window, about 20 feet high. The bag worked great, but still took about 6 throws. I found that I can't toss much higher than 25', even with a swinging motion. My shoulder is too stiff.

Am thinking about a sling-shot, but it can't be much bigger than a wrist rocket because space in our packs is limited. It would almost have to be strapped on the outside, with a short handle. A BIGSHOT could work with a short handle taken off and used as a hiking stick.

From my 20 foot experiments, its evident that the bag toss can be quite a skill.

 

[Tree Machine]

I find it's more in the wrist, elbow and release fingers. The shoulder should move very little. The less overall motion you put into a throw, the fewer variables to go wrong.


When I travel, the bigshot gets stowed cradled around the coiled rope, essentially taking up no more additional space than the hanked rope itself. The bigshot head can be applied to a stick in the woods, just make sure its a stout stick that won't break, and whittle the end round to accommodate the ferrule end. I've had to do this. Or you could put a rubber cap on the end of a fiberglass pole and use it as a hiking stick. This, I've never done.

MD, you do some cool stuff.

 

[Marty B]

Well, its making me feel a bit better to read that there are others who have throwbag issues too...
does anyone go and practice in an attempt to get better?

I work for a parks dept. in Chico Ca. We get lots of practice pulling hangers out of the trees in the pic-nic areas. Maybe you have a park in your area with some large trees...you might get some funny looks, but who cares!!
John Paul has the proper mind set...visulization goes a long way. I also take the ball off the throw line when I pull the throw line out....it helps the bag last longer especially when working over concrete

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I work for a parks dept. in Chico Ca.

If you see Greg L in the near future, say say hi for me.

 

[ArborSmithNw]

A few months ago, I helping someone measure coast redwoods. And their "window" was blocked to aim the laser rangefinder at the top leaders. They found another window, but next time out, I brought my throw bag and about 40 feet of line.

Throwing into our NW Redwoods is a WHOLE nother' category! You have to have Jedi patience & Yoda skills!

 

[ArborSmithNw]

The shoulder should move very little. The less overall motion you put into a throw, the fewer variables to go wrong.

Couldn't be a truer statement.

If you ever watch a champion billiard player, you will note how absolutely mechanical the joint motions are when they deliver the stroke to hit the cue ball, same principals apply to throwing. As does the focusing on the target (pocket in their case). If you watch closely, you will note they look to the pocket, back to the cue ball once, and then back to the pocket where their eyes stay focused and don't leave for 2 or 3 practice strokes & then deliver the shot.

I personally have taken that method & applied it to throw balling. AMAZING. Difficult to train yourself to do, but amazing results.

 

[pbtree]

I do not have the best luck with them, but what the heck!

 

[Tree Machine]

If you ever watch a champion billiard player, you will note how absolutely mechanical the joint motions are when they deliver the stroke to hit the cue ball, same principals apply to throwing. As does the focusing on the target (pocket in their case).

Well-said!

I joke in my mind that line setting is one of the things I do best.

It's a joke because there's so many things I'd be better off at being better at, like anything mechanical, interacting with other humans, financial things.

There are so many duties outside of the actual care of the tree itself that it pays to be good at. I can't do my own taxes, but I can drain shots with amazing consistency.

I can't really describe this in words, but there's a very large emotional rift, between nailing your shot and not. Maybe some of you will agree.
Aceing the throw= joy and elation. Life is good.
Getting it on the second shot= ahhh, I see what I did wrong on the first shot.
Got it on the third shot=About frickin time.
Missed the fourth shot= Geeeodd dang shtttt frckkk arrrrrrr!
Missed the fifth shot=Quit staring at me, you're all fired!

OK, Tree Machine's being funny. Sort of.

 

[tree MDS]

A while back I had this last tree to drop at the end of a long day, dead ash spike leaning to the left over a hemlock, with the house just the other side of that. The tree was way too dead to climb. Well there was not one branch on the right side to hold the line, and just one crotch on the left (and a tiny super dead little stub just below that). It was one of those deals where I had to throw through an annoying norway limb on a hill, in the woods line. Well on about what felt like the fiftieth throw the HO comes along to check out this action. I dont think I knew my own name by the time he showed up I was so pissed off. That thing must have missed the crotch by like 2" and slid down the right side about 15 times. Somehow I managed to maintain my composure barely. Eventually I got it in the lower stub, and luckily it didnt break.

But yeah, I know the madness well.

 

[ArborSmithNw]

Aceing the throw= joy and elation. Life is good.
Getting it on the second shot= ahhh, I see what I did wrong on the first shot.
Got it on the third shot=About frickin time.
Missed the fourth shot= Geeeodd dang shtttt frckkk arrrrrrr!
Missed the fifth shot=Quit staring at me, you're all fired!

And there I thought I was all alone in the cruel world!!

(I never really fire until the 8th throw, 6 & 7 just make them wonder about their security, it tends to make them support your efforts more!)

It's funny, my boys bust my all the time about being outdated & useless, yet I get at least a call a month to go set a line for them!

 

[BC WetCoast]

Well-said!

I joke in my mind that line setting is one of the things I do best.

It's a joke because there's so many things I'd be better off at being better at, like anything mechanical, interacting with other humans, financial things.

There are so many duties outside of the actual care of the tree itself that it pays to be good at. I can't do my own taxes, but I can drain shots with amazing consistency.

I can't really describe this in words, but there's a very large emotional rift, between nailing your shot and not. Maybe some of you will agree.
Aceing the throw= joy and elation. Life is good.
Getting it on the second shot= ahhh, I see what I did wrong on the first shot.
Got it on the third shot=About frickin time.
Missed the fourth shot= Geeeodd dang shtttt frckkk arrrrrrr!
Missed the fifth shot=Quit staring at me, you're all fired!

OK, Tree Machine's being funny. Sort of.

Being the groundie who hits it first shot after standing around for an hour watching throwbags go everywhere - priceless.

 

[Tree Machine]

That IS priceless, BC.


.... so if there's any way I can help anyone to avoid throwbag nightmares,
(Hi Bermie)
I will go out of my way to do so.

The throwline is that one remaining detail between you being on the ground and you being in the tree.

I love and look forward to doing the throw or shot, and isolating the limb. Its truly one of my very favorite things to do, next to the actual climbing and tree care duties.

 

[Marty B]

Greg Liu

If you see Greg L in the near future, say say hi for me.

Will do John Paul......Our sons (both named Austin) go to H.S. together. If you don't mind me asking, how did you meet him? Send me a PM if you like.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Will do John Paul......Our sons (both named Austin) go to H.S. together. If you don't mind me asking, how did you meet him? Send me a PM if you like.

We worked on the Tree House project with Jerry B, roomed at Oxman's house for ISA in Seattle and have had a few beers at other conferences.

 

[Bermie]

Hey TM...that was funny, that's just the way it goes! somebody drop some rep on him for me...all out at the mo'!:jester:

In your picture, do you throw with the micro biner attached?
I'm going to get some practice in this week...especially after seeing Moss nail it about 60' up a white pine in a snowstorm...

My usual method is the one arm throw from the side, bag help in a longish loop...the problem seems to be timing the relaese, too soon=too low, too late=too high or somewhere in the next property!

 

[Tree Machine]

Hi Bermie,

Yes, I do use the micron, but that's only because of several reasons that might be unique and important only to me:

1) I generally have an eye termination on the climbing line, making it bag-off, rope-on in one fluid motion. Same thing in reverse one the rope is set.

2) This can be done equally as fast without having to take off my grippy gloves.

3) The picture above with the red/black 8 oz Harrison Rocket shows the shotline tied directly to the biner. I don't do that anymore. I tie a loop at the end of the shotline, clip the biner onto the loop. This way I can instantly remove both the bag and the biner if there is no eye on the rope and I need to tie shotline directly to the rope.

4) The little aluminum biner has a very strong spring gate, never hangs up on branches, adds only a few grams, lays flat alongside the shotbag in the bigshot pouch, gives only positives in performance and savings in time.

5) As the picture below shows, after nailing the target I can drop the bag to the ground & instantly add ballast to aid in isolating a limb if the tree is giving me a bit too much friction. I'll clip the link on anytime the tree is wet or when I know I'll need to do a mighty swing to clear a more nearward limb below the tie-in point. I don't have to add ballast too often, but when it's necessary, it's gold.

 

[Marty B]

We worked on the Tree House project with Jerry B, roomed at Oxman's house for ISA in Seattle and have had a few beers at other conferences.

Ah...The Tree House Project, a crown reduction on a 2000 yr. old Coastal Redwood. The DVD is must see. I bet you guys could have rigged a Scooner with all the line that was needed for that project. I've got the DVD. Can the DVD be ordered from Bailey's?opcorn:

 

[Bermie]

Hmmm, interesting TM.

Moss showed me a neat way to make a loop on the end of a climb line that does not have a spliced eye:
Sew a piece of tubular nylon sling material over the end of the rope, then double it back to make a small loop...that way you have a streamlined loop on the end that is sufficient for clipping a micro biner into to pull it up.

Its on my to do list...

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Ness Loop

Hmmm, interesting TM.

Moss showed me a neat way to make a loop on the end of a climb line that does not have a spliced eye:
Sew a piece of tubular nylon sling material over the end of the rope, then double it back to make a small loop...that way you have a streamlined loop on the end that is sufficient for clipping a micro biner into to pull it up.

Its on my to do list...

That's sometimes called a Ness Loop, named after Tom Ness (TCI):

Here's another way to do it:

I have one on each end of all my ropes - very useful - saves time.

 

[Tree Machine]

Ness has always been an amazing innovator.