tree butchers LLC

[MonkeyMan_812]

Can you provide evidence of this?

www.oregon.gov/ODF/PUBS/docs/Forest_Facts/FF_Tree_Topping.pdf

Read this article. Sorry but your going to have to type this in cause I dont know how to paste links yet. But the info is there. There is another gov site in illinois that says the same thing. You can find more of these if you type in "tree topping liability" in a search engine.

 

[clearance]

www.oregon.gov/ODF/PUBS/docs/Forest_Facts/FF_Tree_Topping.pdf

Read this article. Sorry but your going to have to type this in cause I dont know how to paste links yet. But the info is there. There is another gov site in illinois that says the same thing. You can find more of these if you type in "tree topping liability" in a search engine.

Looked at it, just a copy from the ISA, "could" be stuff, no cases noted. Yes, topping is bad, I know.

 

[Slvrmple72]

LOL..Little bro-bro, I REALLY hate topping trees and always try and talk them out of it.
Then they point out large leads over the house. So I try and give them the option of side
trimming it back, if I can't convince them of just cleaning it out and lighting it up.
Then if that don't work, I try to give them a bid for just removing the whole tree.

I really do try and avoid topping trees..I do. But people around here sometimes have their minds set.
SO whatta you do?

Easy, you walk. It is what separates the tree guys from the arborists. I am not talking about line clearing work and I know that topping can and should be done in certain conditions but if you honestly think that the tree will be safer after topping it....

 

[Raymond]

Only because I woke up to a splitting headache.

Easy, you walk. It is what separates the tree guys from the arborists. I am not talking about line clearing work and I know that topping can and should be done in certain conditions but if you honestly think that the tree will be safer after topping it....

I never said it was safer for a tree to be topped.
And as far as walking away from jobs.
I went from 30 to 40 job calls (before Bush) a week to 6 or 8 (after Bush).
I don't get to walk away from many jobs anymore.
I do draw the line when it comes to oaks and other hardwood trees.
It's really just the elms and silver maples.

Besides who said I run around topping trees? I do and have topped many, Yes.
But no I don't like topping trees and always (You see that? ALWAYS) try to avoid it.

We done now? I'm going back to bed.

 

[Ekka]

Looked at it, just a copy from the ISA, "could" be stuff, no cases noted. Yes, topping is bad, I know.

I agree with Clarence on this, I am yet to see a case where failed regrowth from inappropriate pruning resulted in a negligence claim that paid.

If you got one, post it coz I need the ammo too, meanwhile all we got is hocuspocus as far as the liability aspect goes, we need a precedent.

 

[Mapleman]

This thread has been a hoot...too bad I got in so late. I started out at $2.20 an hour working for Farrens in Jax, Fla, 1970. I was paroled into the job from Appalachee Correctional Institute. I think Asplundh (sp) gets most of their guys the same way, ha, ha--no offense to any of you ex-asplundh guys.

I agree with Rf as to certification. I've taken the home study courses, try to keep up with the latest info via arborists' mags, and talk shop with fellow tree guys when possible, but I've never taken the certification tests--I don't need a piece of paper to tell me what I know. I get all my work by word of mouth or I contract out as a hired gun. I've worked for some guys who were certified arborists who didn't know how to tie a timber hitch.

I think we need a little levity here after this brouhaha. Anybody heard the sorry saga of Mike Allen, last seen up at the Daley Condos near UC Med Center in SF? I'll be posting it in a new thread.

 

[Rftreeman]

I figured this thread would be dead by now..............


Don't top it.........just drop it..........

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

Hey Ramond. Any pics of the Energizer Bunny! This thread just keeps going and going and going! LOL

 

[Raymond]

Hey Ramond. Any pics of the Energizer Bunny! This thread just keeps going and going and going! LOL

You got it my monkey buddy.

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

You got it my monkey buddy.

I knew you wouldnt let me down!!! Thats hilarious!!!! You got a pic for every subject !!

 

[capetrees]

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

you suck!!!!

 

[Bermie]

I agree with Clarence on this, I am yet to see a case where failed regrowth from inappropriate pruning resulted in a negligence claim that paid.

If you got one, post it coz I need the ammo too, meanwhile all we got is hocuspocus as far as the liability aspect goes, we need a precedent.

I don't have a link, just an anecdote...
In college (UK) we were on the tree law section, and our tutor related a story where Alex Shigo was called in to be an expert witness in a failure case. He was able to interpret cut sections of the tree and prove that inappropriate tree work years before had caused the tree to fail. The company that did the work was sued.

Sorry I don't have the specifics...

 

[prentice110]

Ok....Are you saying you never do something against good sound tree care standards due to the customers demand? If so, I am happy for you.

I find it to be a struggle to find customers to understand less is better...maybe that is why I try to do more removals than anything....little to be left for discussion when the tree is gone.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying and I think quality is the key but quite a bit of this industry is based upon practices that go against good tree care standards.

How many arborists prune for nothing more than view? No reason to remove the limb other than to improve the view. Not science. How many people stick to the 5 rules of pruning?

And, who is to say the customer should not have a say in what their trees look like....it is their property.

In the case of the picture taken, for instance and hypothectically, maybe a certified arborist walked away from the job becuase the homeowner wanted it done the way he wanted and the company that did it was happy to oblige the customer.

Good tree care bad tree care.....does it really matter....the customer is happy...it is America....I can tell you most of my competitors are better off than me because they do what the customer wants regardless of good tree care standards.

I love customers that let me do my thing and they get quality. If a customer tells me to cut at this point....I say ok or I would not do that...if they say why...I tell them....if they say I want to see the river so cut half the tree off like I asked you to and stop with all that scientific talk....I then have the choice to leave. The common response is if it dies it dies.

At the end of the day....while we have the obligation to do the right thing and educate our customers....we need to understand that the customer has rights to do what they want and as long as they do, there will be somebody that will do something that someone else says they will not do.

Ok...to turn it around....why did the arborist making the post not get this particular job? Is there a story behind it?

I could take pics of everything done wrong in tree care by other companies in my county alone...I could fill this site up with enough pics to last 10 years.

I guess my point is really this....customers are for the most part blind to our struggles but they have the cash.

I love to educate someone and then have them tell me they love their trees after we are done.

Sorry for being the devil's advocate.

I was going to say a thing or two about this post but this guy hit the nail on the head so all I will add is that this is the same kind of trimming that 90+% of my competitors do and I seem to notice around anywhere from 40-60% of the time I point out to the customer that this is what the other guy is going to do , and it isnt right, I get the job. The rest of the time the customer is only looking at the bottom line, or is some kind off jack leg that I dont want to waste my time dealing with because theyve already been brain washed by what theyve seen or been told by someone else. Thin, dont butcher. Why haul heavy wood when you can take away pruning cuts for the same$?

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

Hey Raymond, can we get the energizer bunny again? Pleeease? Eight pages and going and going and going!!

 

[Raymond]

You got it my monkey buddy.

.

 

[B-Edwards]

I have or had a customer who is very wealthy, a younger fellow single , second home has spent over 300k on his landscaping in the past 6 years( on the second home). He wanted all of the limbs raised on his trees so his smaller trees and shrubs would get more sunlight. I am friends with this fellow, we have been out to eat with his girl-friend and my wife several times. We are friends but we really dont connect he is in a different world than I am and I dont think he really respects that I am an Arborist but that's another story. I am telling you this so you understand the story. I tried to talk him out of what he wanted to do for over 3 months. I tried to show him that he had way to many smaller trees planted to close together and that all of that would out-grow it's site rather quickly and he would have to remove things as they crowded each other. To make a long story short, he would have it no other way than his way. I explained that there would be a real problem with sprouts making the trunks look ugly and told him the health of the trees would suffer. Oh yeah to make a loong story short, his trees look like crap and he tipped me very well.

 

[prentice110]

I started at $7.91 :biggrinbounce2:

the old man started at 90 cents an hour, in 1946. They had 3 crews, and 1 chain saw. Nobody wanted to use it cuz it was so dang heavy.

 

[Ekka]

the old man started at 90 cents an hour, in 1946. They had 3 crews, and 1 chain saw. Nobody wanted to use it cuz it was so dang heavy.

And that's still (in 2009) more than what they're paying for the employess of Firestone Tires in China today, amongst hundreds of other businesses that left USA for cheaper labour and little industrial laws recently.

Welcome to the past, back to the future takes a new dimension!

 

[Rftreeman]

I'll tell you what's wrong with it, some dimwit pencil pusher decided at one time or another that he would start this "what's good for the tree" arborist thing and now anytime some arborist see someone making money by giving the customer exactly what they wanted they can't stand it knowing that someone got paid to do it........

I personally see nothing wrong with those trees, the customer most likely came home one day and said "I sure would like to be able to see my house from the road" so they hired Rick's to fix it so they could.

I got another big fat red rep from monkey for this but it doesn't matter cause I've gotten about 9 green rep for it........lol