Veggie oil?

[Kneejerk Bombas]

IThe non-saw users don't realize that every single drop of oil put into the bar tank gets dispersed right back into the environment, or on to their property.

Did you see the link Tom D. posted that indicated that as much as 5% of bar oil ended up either in, or on, the operator?

 

[jomoco]

I believe it

Did you see the link Tom D. posted that indicated that as much as 5% of bar oil ended up either in, or on, the operator?

I believe it, especially when your goundie isn't familiar with the new fangled oil caps on the ms200T after he refuels it for you! LOL

Seriously, I've decided to try veggie oil in a few of my older climbing saws first, if it works out well, I'll switch over because it makes good sense environmentally, and I'm tired of getting ripped off paying 7 bucks a gallon for bar oil.

Good thread, even old dogs can change their ways.

jomoco

 

[Tree Machine]

Did you see the link Tom D. posted that indicated that as much as 5% of bar oil ended up either in, or on, the operator?

Yes I did, Mike, and I feel that's significant. It is the primary reason I switched over and then the environmental benefits became more and more clear.

I concern myself with the health of my fellow treeguys. Bar oil in or on you. That means a number of things. We know the oil sprays off in tiny, essentially invisible little atomized mist droplets. If the wind is wrong, it comes back at you, on the surface of your skin, in the air you breath, and on your clothes. Think about this the next time you wipe a light coating off the lenses of your safety glasses. Have you ever had a day where your lips feel like you put chap stick on them, but you haven't?

I don't know this for certain, but intuitively I believe most treeguys don't carry soap around and water to wash with. We handle the caps of our saws and get oil on our hands. Oil gets on our tools and we handle the tools and our hands are exposed. If we have oily hands and put them inside gloves, the inside of the gloves now have a residue that transfers back to our clean hands tomorrow morning. We maintain our bars and chains and our hands get oily. Oil on our hands is a reality in our job. It is daily repeated exposure. If we don't have the opportunity to wash, we have tainted hands all day.

I concern myself with Mr oily hands picking up a sandwich. And a good many of us smoke.... can you see how this repeated day after day exposure to bar oil and the NUMBER of different ways it can get on us or in us? This is just during our work hours, then you drag your filthy trousers in and throw em in the wash, possibly along with other clothes. We like to assume the clothes come out free of any oil residue, but do they really? Do we really know?

Just being aware of the ways the oil can get in us or on us is being personally responsible. None of us want ill repercussions years later after working our butts off so hard. Awareness is advised over ignorance. We do get exposed, it's almost impossible to avoid. I'd rather be exposed to veggie oil than crude bar- not that I claim veggie is OK to breath, but flat out common sense would say that crude bar would be the worse of the two.

Just food for thought.

 

[JohnH]

We use it when we cut near watershed areas. We just did a job in the peoples republic of Cambridge and I used it for bar oil when we were cutting next to the water.

 

[soutz]

Hey treeman have you used kitty litter for a clean up on concrete. we carry a bag with us as a clean of spills. certainly cuts back on the stains

 

[Erwin]

Stihil makes a bio bar oil at 20 bucks a gallon.they don't have it stock most of the time .

Great information! I can't wait to start using my 5 gal vegie oil from Sam's Club. I think that we pay $15 for a 5-gal jug. The regular chain oil from home depot is $8 a gal. Thanks a lot!

 

[John464]

Im thinking about trying this. My employees will initially think Ive lost my mind and Im sure will have atleast a week of jokes/laughs about this. This should be fun

After reading this thread the summary is


Pro's

Cheaper than regular oil

Better for the health of the trees we work on

Better for operator health

Customers will look at you funny but after explaining the benefits they will like the new method


Con's

You will have to re-adjust the oiler in each saw you have after adding Veggie Oil

 

[Tree Machine]

There's really no reason to readjust your oiler. I never have, on any of the saws.

 

[Tree Machine]

Oops, with this one exception. The extendable chainsaw on a stick, the Power Pruner. On this one I took the oiler and oil tank off completely to spare some weight out there on the end. This one I hand-oil. I keep the veggie in a 200 ml plastic bottle with one of those little flip-tip spouts. Every few minutes I re-oil, or when the chain gets pretty dry you can hear it. This saw doesn't get a lot of continuous use and I'm pretty dialled-in to when it needs a shot. Also the chain doesn't move at 10-12 K so continuous oiling is not a critical issue like the other ones.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I'm SOOOO happy that the veggie oil parade is getting bigger. Years ago I started to try some experiments. All of my results follow along with TM's.

There is NO downside to using veggies

 

[Tree Machine]

Amazing, eh?

As far as a parade, we're still a pretty small group. Of all arborists out there, only a fraction come to arboristsite. Of that fraction, only some will read this thread. Of that 'some' we get our growing parade.


We are a very small minority of saw users that have this new understanding. I'd like to see a larger chunk of our treeguy population at least get introduced to the idea, just that they have the new information and would then know it's OK to use veggie over bar. Of that much larger segment, more will give it a try and I think that at some point usage will reach a sort of critical mass where there are enough veggie guys passing the information around to bar guys that we will really have effected a real change, industry-wide.

I feel the change in the recent converts, and it is exciting. Of all the treeguys and saw users out there (easily tens of thousands), I cringe to think of how many dozens of barrels of petroleum oil are getting sprayed onto mother earth every single day. :help:

You owners who are converting, and standing up to the rants of your crew, good on you. In a very short time the veggie will prove itself, flat-out, and they'll see the added benefits on top of the perfect performance. Having no downsides to the change, only benefits, really helps the cause.

 

[Sprig]

From small rumblings....................
What would be really nice to see is some dealers and mechanics join said parade, get informed. The testimonials here are a great start, the more the merrier. I wonder what the ripple effect would be if a couple stopped carrying petroleum based bar oils and loaded up on Mazola instead, do up some nice chainsaw-ish stickers and re-bag it in old milk jugs (that aren't recyclable, here anyhoo). Just a thought. Grass roots thing here and I have no aversion to pushing this idea whenever I get a chance, just makes too much sense. Could be an interesting business venture too for an enterprising person especially anyone near one of the processing plants (veggie ones in the mid west me thinks), might swing a good deal on bulk.........Hmmmmmm..:monkey:

 

[Firewoodster]

Here's The Deal!

I mix bar oil and used vegie oil from the deep fryers at my restaurant and have not had a problem whil;e using it in two years. I run the saws for a couple of minutes once a month with diesal fuel in the oil reservoir to loosen anything that may get hung up, just as a precaution. Sure saves some bucks on bar oil....
Check out your local restaurants.....If they don't have a contract with a local disposer, more than likely they'll give you all that you want. Just be sure and strain it before you use it. (hint) cut the foot out of your wife's panty hose (after you've eaten the rest of it, preferribly not the fishnet style) and use it as a strainer. It's free, but cost Thousands of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ over the years........

Just my .02

 

[GASoline71]

Save the Wesson oil for Florence Henderson and french fries, and the hippies that think bar oil is destroying the planet. You're runnin' a 2-stroke for cryin' out loud... whaddaya think that thing is doin' to the environment?:deadhorse:

Gary

 

[Wes]

In the motor, too...

Other than the free quart of bar oil I got with my first saw, I've used canola exclusively on the bar. Doesn't stink, isn't sticky, cleans up with soap and water, etc. Got in trouble once when I ran out and went into the kitchen to get some more. Got into a pickle when my wife found the empty Grapeseed Oil can. Probably spent $10 on that pint. When I'm not going to use the saw for a while I take off the bar, clean it up, and then spray real good with Remington's dry-lube down into the groove.

In the motor: I have also used my own concoction of 50% LawnBoy oil/50% Canola in my two-stroke mix for my trimmers and the Pull-On. It goes into everything at a tad fatter than 50:1, maybe 45:1. The smell is much nicer than straight dino, and the motors don't seem to care. The Pull-On has 40-50 tanks of gas through it and runs like a top. I'll take the mufflers off of some tools and post piston pics if I get around to it. There's a little carbon on the piston tops, but some Seafoam once or twice a year takes care of that.

I do not use my part-veg mix in my Stihl, mostly out of warranty concerns. I won't lie about my mix if I ever need warranty work, and I don't want the dealer to be in a tight spot, wondering if I've violated the warranty.

 

[bwalker]

Did you see the link Tom D. posted that indicated that as much as 5% of bar oil ended up either in, or on, the operator?

I wouldnt assume that inhalling vegi oil is any better for you than inhalling petrol based bar oil. Veggie oil minus a tac agent may actually lead to more inhalation over regular bar oil.

 

[DOLMARatOs]

I don't know about the rest of the world, but we get $6.00 for Dolmar Bar oil in the gallon jug. I'd like to introduce some veggie oil to my guys but what happens to the oil if the saw sits around for awhile?

I still think the tac properties of bar oil are important. I'd enjoy being proven wrong in my use of Dino oil.

Any published studies or real world data on how affective veggie oil is with bar and chain wear and tear in tough hard wood would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tree Machine]

not that I claim veggie is OK to breath, but flat out common sense would say that crude bar would be the worse of the two.

I wouldnt assume that inhalling vegi oil is any better for you than inhalling petrol based bar oil. Veggie oil minus a tac agent may actually lead to more inhalation over regular bar oil.

Thanks, Ben. Other than repeating something already said, you've contributed something new with no substantiation as to why you think this might be true.

One thing we know is true is that it ALL comes off the bar, every bit of it, whether tackified bar, or vegetable, tack or no tack. It is pumped on and it comes off. In this sense, the two oils are pretty much identical. But you propose, for some reason, that straight veggie could, "actually lead to more inhalation over regular bar oil." Ben, I have a feeling the general wind direction and the chain speed and the direction your bar tip is pointing in regards to the wind while in use would be the major factors.

I've heard in the past that veggie flies off easier, but all the oil flies off, regardless of whether it is transmission fluid, used motor oil, baby oil, whatever; it all comes off. There is no real difference in oils in this regard. None of them stay on the bar. They are pumped on, do ther job lubricating, and spin off. Everybody here experiences this identically.

You're runnin' a 2-stroke for cryin' out loud... whaddaya think that thing is doin' to the environment?

Being combusted and released as a variety of combustion by-products. It has nothing to do with this topic.

 

[Tree Machine]

what happens to the oil if the saw sits around for awhile?

Do you have veggie oil in your kitchen cabinet that sits around for awhile? What happens to it? There's your answer. it has a really good shelf life, in part to the vitamin E antioxidant that's added at processing.

Any published studies or real world data on how affective veggie oil is with bar and chain wear and tear in tough hard wood would be greatly appreciated.

The academic community simply can't run their saws as hard and consistently as commercial arborists. If they were to publish something, their best feedback would likely come from us. If they set saws up on 'saw machines' to run thousands of cuts, side by side, that wouldn't be 'real world'. I think having thousands of saws running veggie in the real world, sharing the information and outcomes of their experiences would be the best study possible.

I think we're as real-world as it gets.

Anyway, here's a downloadable publication from the United States Department of Agriculture. Elmore gave this to us in page 2 of this thread, http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdf/98511316.pdf

 

[GASoline71]

Being combusted and released as a variety of combustion by-products. It has nothing to do with this topic.

opcorn: opcorn:

Gary