why blakes over taut line?

[Toddppm]

One of my guys was climbing on that except instead of the extra half hitch he had another wrap on top same direction. When I asked him what the hell it was he said the other guy showed it to him He had just tied it backwards. And he had no problem with it either.

 

[Rob Murphy]

Re-tie

Originally posted by TREETX
How many of you climbing with tails or prussiks leave them tied and use the same knot day in day out.

I know you should retie the knots daily but who does?

Yeh I re tie each day and sometimes each time i "deck out" . Good way to check wear on tail.
....Still on top off the world......

 

[murphy4trees]

I learned early on that you can reverse the direction of turns on the top two turns on a tautline and that will prevent it from rolling. I wonder if that still makes it a tautline. Anyone know?
God Bless All,
Daniel

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Wow the 2 Murph's!

i think that reversing the top 2 turns would still make the ends come out the middle, only in the same direction, so would be an open prusik?

 

[rbtree]

Rob,

and,

murph,


Hey, quit givin me "that upside down feeling", you'll give me a complex.....lol

I used to climb with that hitch sometimes too, it is an open prussic, but seemed more likely to run on its own occasionally.



...... the "only" Dodg...

.and that's a good thing.....


.'specially for youse guys...

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Bob wrote:

"Actually the extra half hitch is not required as this will not roll out, like a tautline would."


I disagree. Any open prussic type knot can roll out to some extent. Thus the stopper knot, even on the blakes.
These knots tend to tighten when loaded, so they need loosening when slack is needed. Each time you do this the hitch moves out just a little. If your tail is close to the hitch and you take a fall, load the hitch, the tail could pull through.

Because it's single ended, as you tighten, it moves out.

I have a winch I use to load test stuff. Maybe I could pull on some of these hitches and see what happens.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Hmmmmmmm would be interested in that MM.

In my imagination, halfhitch/clove family of lacings walk some; but i usually go with that when you reverse the 2nd layer to make girth/prusik family of lacings they don't? i figure it will be less, if not about nonexistant, but have never tested that hypothesis like that.

Any way, figure any open system (especially life support) should have a positive mechanical stop.

Tie,
Dress,
Set,
and Inspect.

Take all the slack out of the machine of the knot, so there will be no impact/slip that could cause other problems, as well as sieze tightly on the host line. Make knots that you are totally familiar with. This is one reason i like the double bowline with Yosemite tie off, as it is very symetrical (easy on the eye, well balanced, easier spot checking); as i will tie it in the rigging line and use it all day, attatching 'biners in the temporary eye, so spot inspection of a familiar, symetrical knot becomes more important.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The way i envision the diffrence between tautline/prusik.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

ok, let's try again , again..........

 

[Gopher]

I, too would llike to know more about the fp. I have been using blakes for some time, but I believe in bettering myself here. All I need is a reference to where I can view.

Thank you.

Gopher

 

[o0_TreeMan_0o]

French Prusik

there is also a link on here for the Machard Tresse. it has a lot of good info.

http://community-2.webtv.net/acutabovetree/RopesSplicingKnots/

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Yo! Spike!

Just because a guy uses a particular knot and cuts himself out of a tree seems like a funny reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. It seems like there might be better measuring sticks or authorities to use as qualifiers.

Open up your copy of The Tree Climber's Companion and review pages 52-53. The thumb forward to see what Jeff wrote about friction hitches on pages 82-87.

I don't know one climber who moved from the Tautline to the Blake's and ever moved back. In fact, most move quickly from the B onto one of the various high performance hitches. That will start people on to other modern climbing techniques. Think of the Tautline like a dependable Bell System dial phone. Solid, adequate, low performance. the high performance hitches are like using a cell phone or DSL/cable modems. High speed, once you have them tweaked they rock the world! I have an old Bell System dial phone in my garage for nostalgia but I climb on a Lock Jack or Distal. No reason to move backwards with any technology.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that there wasn't one climber in the ITCC that used a Blakes. In fact, i'd also bet that they all used a split tail and a very high percentage used a high performance friction hitch. Those sort of stats mean something to me, how about you?

Tom

 

[Tim Gardner]

Originally posted by rbtree
...... I just learned a cool new variation from dethroned ITCC champ Mark Chisholm, it worked great today.

Care to share the details of this new variation with your fellow climbers?

 

[murphy4trees]

Blakes is much more responsive than tautline, and won't tighten up under a load like the tautline... definitely a good move.
Tom,
Did you modify your lock jack. I heard they could be a little jerky.. Maybe it just takes a while to master the control... Any suggestions or tips? How are the new models superior? I sure would like to try one for a week or two without dropping $300.
God Bless,
Daniel

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap

I don't know one climber who moved from the Tautline to the Blake's and ever moved back. In fact, most move quickly from the B onto one of the various high performance hitches.

I spent a fair amount of time on a tautline, got tired of the rollout and went to Blake's. At that time I realized newer COULD mean better and immediately went to the French prusik. Only use Blake's now for a double tie-in where my 16' lanyard is too short.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Dave,

Your testimonial is exactly what I was referring to. Many climbers are reluctant to make changes from what is tried and true even if there is a lot of evidence that the new way is better. Making the step from Tautline to Blake's is the hardest but, once made, makes the journey to being a progressive climber a fast-track. Think of it as a toe in the door.

I haven't done anything to my LJ to tune it. Pretty odd for me In fact, I never even painted it pink! The current price for the LJ is $240. Stop down at the Vermeer dealer, they should have one set up on the display floor. The dealer here in the Twin Cities has one on the rope and sells them pretty regularly.

Tom

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Any input on my theory of why an open prusik will tend not to walk, or won't and why clove/tautline family will?

MM you ever get to test those knots?

Enquiring minds need to know!

 

[Stumper]

Spydy, Your theory seems logical. The big diff between the 2 styles of hitches comes into play when the direction of pull is changed so that the standing line is actively 'trying' to open the "bar" of the hitch. Clove style lacing tends to roll out-the standing line is forcing the bar down the tail. Prusik style lacings tend to balance the forces and stay tied.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Yes, I did some testing.
When the taut line was tied with the ends exiting in different directions and no stopper knot(for testing only), it rolled right off the tail with about 200Lbs pull.
Don't even think about climbing on this knot without a stopper!
It suprised me that when I tied it so the ends came out the same way, it held. I took it to about 4000 lbs, and it just got tighter, no slipage.
The prussics behaved differently. They tightened up and held to about 1000lbs, then slid. They seemed to slide evenly at a certain pound pull.
If I shortened the prussic by adding an extra wrap it just held to a higher load and then slid. The sliding at high pressure burned the cover after only a short pull.
I don't think the cord I have been using for prussics would hold up to a long burn.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

As in many things with these exam-i-nations i see more things than just one; each serving to compound the other.

Not, only do i see the 'z' bar of clove/tautline being pushed back towards end of tail (walking) while, the girth/prusik type are a diffrent machine (just because of the reversed '2nd' story) self tightening instead of loosening, truly setting the load against itself. Even with it's other leg free. Also, the straight bar reverses the torquing thru the line. i think that pinches the center lines (working and standing tails) together tighter. This in turn, provides securer clamping; which serves to snub out more pulling force, and increase traction between the 2 tail ends.

This traction, grabbing as the working tail is pulled serves in the girth/prusik lacings to pull the standing end tighter, while in clove/tautline family of lacings tends to pull the standing tail out/ per force applied! The girth/prusik's do everything mechanically possible to schedule themselves to hang on, then you can add the other leg too!

"If one loop is a choke, a girth would be a death choke, a prusik would be a double, death choke etc.." -One of mine!

This examination all along exemplifies how important it is to pick the correct knot machine to your task, and Tie, Set, Dress and Inspect it correctly.