kf_tree
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mike i was trying to post a few pics of what i was talking about with the fig 8's opening with an auto lock. but i was unable to shrink them down small enough to post. any suggestions on how to post them?
why blakes over taut line?
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rbtree
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Mike,
I'd advise not getting the spliced Ultratech. It is a funny splice, utilizing only the core. I'm sure it is plenty strong, but there is another problem. The splice length can interfere with getting the Vt dressed and working correctly.
Along with others, including Tom Dunlap, and Mark Chisholm, ex ITCC champ, I have gone to 3/8 polyester double braid. it can be had for .30-40 cents per foot, is ~4800 lb tensile, and is woven tighter than ultratech, so should hold the core in. Just buy a bunch and experiment with length, and wraps. It works great for the distel/schwabisch, as well as the Vt. Being a bit larger, it seems resistant to burning, but at about $2 per hitch, what the heck...
I'd advise not getting the spliced Ultratech. It is a funny splice, utilizing only the core. I'm sure it is plenty strong, but there is another problem. The splice length can interfere with getting the Vt dressed and working correctly.
Along with others, including Tom Dunlap, and Mark Chisholm, ex ITCC champ, I have gone to 3/8 polyester double braid. it can be had for .30-40 cents per foot, is ~4800 lb tensile, and is woven tighter than ultratech, so should hold the core in. Just buy a bunch and experiment with length, and wraps. It works great for the distel/schwabisch, as well as the Vt. Being a bit larger, it seems resistant to burning, but at about $2 per hitch, what the heck...
Rob Murphy
ArboristSite Operative
Puckering has to do with the loose outer weave and ultra tech is very hard to burn.I use Spectra speed it has a high abrasive/UV resistant outer core with a tighter weave . Yuo could try double braid as Rog sugests..
:angel:
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Is that like 'hardware store' Double Braid 3/8"?
Make double braid eyes a'la (Brion) Toss?
Make double braid eyes a'la (Brion) Toss?
Kneejerk Bombas
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RB and others,
I recommend doing a distructive test with the prussic cords you are using.
Tie an old peice of 1/2" line to a tree, hook your cheap prussic to your truck, and have a friend drive away while you watch.
I think you will rethink the use of these lines.
Then try the ultra tech.
*Important:
Do NOT use ropes that have been distructively tested, cut them up and throw them away!
I recommend doing a distructive test with the prussic cords you are using.
Tie an old peice of 1/2" line to a tree, hook your cheap prussic to your truck, and have a friend drive away while you watch.
I think you will rethink the use of these lines.
Then try the ultra tech.
*Important:
Do NOT use ropes that have been distructively tested, cut them up and throw them away!
rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Mike, the ultratech doesnt work too well for schwabisch/distel.
The double braid is just fine, the outer is plenty heat resistant, no burning problems from fast descents. Testing would be a good idea, tho. Besides, at the price, retiring the cord after a few months makes sense. It wears better than Tenex, I'm sure, and is rated lower, but plenty high at 4800 single, so at least 6500 lb doubled and knotted.
spydey, yeah, it would splice easily enuf, but why, you'd have the handling issue where the splice is buried. a dubble fisherman's is reasonably small, almost bombproof. and a triple is even better, just a bit bigger.
The double braid is just fine, the outer is plenty heat resistant, no burning problems from fast descents. Testing would be a good idea, tho. Besides, at the price, retiring the cord after a few months makes sense. It wears better than Tenex, I'm sure, and is rated lower, but plenty high at 4800 single, so at least 6500 lb doubled and knotted.
spydey, yeah, it would splice easily enuf, but why, you'd have the handling issue where the splice is buried. a dubble fisherman's is reasonably small, almost bombproof. and a triple is even better, just a bit bigger.
rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Re the ultratech problem of the core coming out, which has never happened to mine till they were quite old, the new stuff has a tighter woven sheath with more but smaller strands, so it should solve the problem.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
They are coming out with a wide variety of UT cords now. Don't know if anyone will carry them though.
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Anyone know how Sherrill finishes the ends of ultrtech..
Looks like some kind of tape and then dipped.
Also heard it melts at 900*... maybe I'll take the torch to an end and see what happens.
God Bless All,
Daniel
Looks like some kind of tape and then dipped.
Also heard it melts at 900*... maybe I'll take the torch to an end and see what happens.
God Bless All,
Daniel
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
That is the sheath that has a high melting point. UT is kernmantle and the core has a very low melting point for rope work, so that is why the sheath is there.
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
Got this info from the Samson website:
Ultra-Tech™ is a double braid rope construction that has its strength and stretch features developed from the braided Technora® core. The braided polyester cover creates a firm flexible working rope and protects the core from external wear.
Melting point of Technora Core 930°F.
Ultra-Tech™ is a double braid rope construction that has its strength and stretch features developed from the braided Technora® core. The braided polyester cover creates a firm flexible working rope and protects the core from external wear.
Melting point of Technora Core 930°F.
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Where are you guys getting the 3/8 double braid? Rich.
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
New England ropes makes a 3/8 double braid... costs around .55/ft.
Daniel
Daniel
murphy4trees
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Went a little wild on the phone 3x with Sherrill today... really nice people answering the phone down there. Anyhow found out that Sherrilll finishes the ends of the ultra-tech 51" cord, by dipping in 3M electrical coating. Sound a little scary, and I may see about picking some up.
God Bless,
Daniel
God Bless,
Daniel
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Murphy,
Did you get a product number or name for the 3M product?
I wonder if the rope end dip would work. I know that some climbers use Plasti-dip on the ends of ropes too.
Tom
Did you get a product number or name for the 3M product?
I wonder if the rope end dip would work. I know that some climbers use Plasti-dip on the ends of ropes too.
Tom
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
this is a pic i was trying to show. this has happened to me twice when useing an auto lock on a fig 8. i can't explain how or why but it happens.
I learned on a taught line and steel snap. This worked well for me and our company. We climber this way for 8 years. Then we up graded to a Blakes with a split tail and micro pulley. This was only a mild improvement. For the past several years all of our climbers are using some form of a close ended climbing system. Speed and effeciency have improved and so has morale. Climbing trees is very difficult and any reduction in friction in your system makes for an easier day. These newer knots have huge bennefits, and work best when applied to a whole system witch includes using a friction saver. While in Saettle I noticed every competitor and every tech. about 50 climbers were all using a closed ended climbing system. These climbers are the best in the world, they must be using these systems for a reason. As far as taking your tail off of the rope, I take mine off every tree. By rotating the hot spots the cord lasts alot longer.
After i werk my tail off on every tree, then i take my tail off and straighten it out.
Spike, is that 'biner jammed, stiff gate, or opening during use? None is good!
i think Fig. 8's corkscrew rope and you must deal with that force of twisting going on when using them. Especially after a lot of rope travel and the "free" end is trapping the twists by its own weight, or being trapped in any other way, allowing twists to build up worse as force is trapped in them.
Spike, is that 'biner jammed, stiff gate, or opening during use? None is good!
i think Fig. 8's corkscrew rope and you must deal with that force of twisting going on when using them. Especially after a lot of rope travel and the "free" end is trapping the twists by its own weight, or being trapped in any other way, allowing twists to build up worse as force is trapped in them.
rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Spike,
i cant say how biners open like that,as i have never had one open under load or when using an 8. However, that looks like an HMS double locking biner and it should not happen. Likely the last locking mechanism is not engaging. Clean the biner with a good solvent, then use WD-40 or preferably some graphite lube, such as that sold by Sherril.
I have retired or lost all my HMS's, a fine biner, now use mostly Kong "grenade gate", and Petzl ball locks for life support.
i cant say how biners open like that,as i have never had one open under load or when using an 8. However, that looks like an HMS double locking biner and it should not happen. Likely the last locking mechanism is not engaging. Clean the biner with a good solvent, then use WD-40 or preferably some graphite lube, such as that sold by Sherril.
I have retired or lost all my HMS's, a fine biner, now use mostly Kong "grenade gate", and Petzl ball locks for life support.
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