Young, Dumb & want the Bling!!

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It is a small wonder they see a job they CAN learn as something they feel confident they already know.

You're a smart man. This is something I personally have wrestled with for many years as I've boosted my skills, still do today from time to time to be honest. What drove that home for me was watching my business partner; a smart, hardworking, industrious guy, run a chainsaw. Yeah he can run it, but he doesn't really know HOW to yet if you know what I mean.
 
I am not really a smart man, just hopeful of our future. The younger generation who got blasted pretty well on this thread need to be understood, and sometimes even parented by their supervisors, in regards to learning work ethics, and job related performance issues.

I lost my dad at 14, left home and hitch-hiked around awhile at 16, always worked for a living...and learned how to work, and work hard from my employers/bosses/supervisors. I was always fortunate enough to have great supervisors, tough, honest, and hardworking. Got fired a few times, sobered me up and only made me a better worker.

This new generation has it all, they just need good coaches out there who will try to understand them, and the guidance they need, and the qualities they have to offer.

I admit sometimes they seem lazy, but I think more than that they seem confused. They were never told they needed to earn their keep, or that the reason they work for a particular company is to make that company money.

With very little guidance most of the "kids" I know today respond well, and will give you their all. Not only that, but they learn quickly, know how to get more information quicker, and are very willing to bust their butts to get ahead of the game. Sometimes they just need to know, what they don't know. Shown what they need to learn, they usually will respond by learning it and quicker than most of us old timers did.

Most of the time they enter the "trades" because they want to take a short-cut to success, and bypass the educational process. That can be hard to deal with, but once they know the trades, especially our trade requires extensive hands on education, most of the ones I have seen are willing to go for it with amazing drive.

Point is do not expect the younger generation of white kids to be like you, but don't expect them to be much different either. We all grew up in different circumstances, different experiences, and different times. This gives us an amazing diversity in what we have to offer, but also givesd us an amazing challenge in gleaning the best from our diversity.

Young imigrants already know the value of work, having come from a society that pushes labor and earning every dollar, so they appear to be the better work force. (I mean this next statement to no one's offense) Yet their drive for education, and achievement seems to be limited. They are great for the off-the-street physical labor, but to learn the intricacies and physics of the craft they seem less motivated. Maybe because they are less greedy, or maybe because they are satisfied with less. (A generality true, but so is this entire thread).
 
I cut down trees for a living and have a college degree. I chose not to really use it because I like to work, and would go crazy in an office all day!
 
I spent 5 years going to college 4 nights a week after doing tree work all day. I changed majors 4 different times before realizing I am not a psychologist, computer programmer, teacher, etc. etc.. I finished up in buisness and am still paying back student loans:censored: I love being outside and in a different place every day and would not trade it for a 9-5 desk job for twice the money. We get lots of younger guys in and not one has lasted more then a few months, The guys in there mid to late 30's and 40's seem to stick around longer in general.
 
I am 36 and have been doing tree work for profit for about 7 years now. I use the firewood to heat my house and keep me from getting bored during the winter. I am pretty much self taught and have built good ties with the professionals in my area. I will be finishing a tech degree next year and finishing up a b.s.m.e. while the economy gets its **** together. I doubt I will ever stop doing tree work while I am still physically able. I have worked with guys younger and older, smarter and moronic, lazy and hardworking, some have been trapped by poor personal choices, bull-headedness, etc. but I have always been able to teach and share with those willing to learn. I have had the privelage to pick up a few things along the way by my seniors too. I have dealt with enough fellas at all ages to think that age isn't the biggest factor but will admit that some of the younger guys are real characters!
 
I know this is long but hear me out o.k.
I've read some of this thread here and there. I can honestly say that I agree with some of you on the subject of being ashamed to be in the generation of 20 year olds. What sickens me more is the 2 generations before and after me. Out of the 82 people in my graduating class of 2006, I can name 20-30 including myself that are good hard working people. We are the only ones who have not gotten in trouble with the law to some degree or drink and smoke and do drugs and actually have personal goals that we want to meet in our life. The rest of our class is a bunch of preppy, whiny, worthless, bunch that will accomplish nothing in life. Oh yeah, THEY ARE ALSO ATTACHED TO THEIR F'ING CELL PHONES ALL D@MN DAY. I turn 21 in 2 weeks, and I can confidently say that I'm happy with my decision to start a landscape contracting and arborist company. Yes, I've had my fair share of bumps along the way, but that's part of learning. I've been doing landscaping since I was 16 and started out with small projects. Today I own several machines, vehicles, and equipment and have 3 part time employees 2 of which are good friends of mine. Recently I started getting more involved with tree work, as I saw an opportunity in my area because there's only a few who are doing it. Those few are hacks who don't care. Slowly, I'm taking their work from them because I do a better job. Some work I have done involved finishing what one guy started and screwed up. As one guy on here put it, I'm tired of being in the lazy 'want the bling' young guys who don't care category. And no, I'm not offended by it, but it gets f'ing old hearing it all the time. I take great pride in the work I do, I care ALOT about what other people think of my work. i.e. the way the job site looks during the work, clean up, safety, my tools, and how present myself to the public. One of my workers recently complimented me, when pm day came up, on how I keep all of my machines and tools clean and maintained, and said his previous boss was no like that. I told him, "a business can't run smoothly if your machines are constantly in the shop, and people who drive by the job site notice the cleanliness of your stuff". I especially care alot since 80% of my projects come from 'word of mouth' . And if myself and a client have an issue, I keep working at it until the problem is resolved or go to the next best option. I've been doing landscaping full time since the fall of '06 and this year has been the most profitable.
For the record I am not ISA certified but have planed to take the exam sometime next fall, nor do I claim to be an arborist (and yes clients are aware of this). Yes, I am using ropes but for the time being I stay low and don't work in areas I'm not comfortable with. After I finish working corn harvest next year with some friends, like I've done every year since the fall of '06, is when I plan to do it. If you want to bash me for being a newb and tell me that I don't know what I'm doing, go ahead. BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE A D@MN, NOT ONE F'ING BIT. trust me I won't lose sleep over it. I have "absorbed" a lot of info over the past 4-5 months and I have a brother in law who has 13 years rock climbing experience and is teaching me tons of techniques and tricks to use while climbing. If you do have any HELPFUL advise for me please feel free to tell me, or pm if you prefer. If you read this whole thing, I thank you for taking the time to do so. I'll get of my soap box now.
 
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Well SL, that was pretty long!! look no ones saying all of you are like this, those like you are RARE!!!!!

2nd, I wont bash anyone for trying anything, however your "rock" climbing buddy should know that teaching you climbing & techniques in his hobby are no where near what you will need to know for this profession!!!

you are young & it would be wise of you to seek out a competent "treeman" to learn from...this you wont regret...doing as you are thinking you probably will!!

either way, Be safe & good luck, BTW....you wont meet the qualifications to take the arborist exam, you will need 3yrs verifiable experience........however you can do what others in your age bracket do to get what they want..LIE!!


LXT...............
 
Well SL, that was pretty long!! look no ones saying all of you are like this, those like you are RARE!!!!!

2nd, I wont bash anyone for trying anything, however your "rock" climbing buddy should know that teaching you climbing & techniques in his hobby are no where near what you will need to know for this profession!!!

you are young & it would be wise of you to seek out a competent "treeman" to learn from...this you wont regret...doing as you are thinking you probably will!!

either way, Be safe & good luck, BTW....you wont meet the qualifications to take the arborist exam, you will need 3yrs verifiable experience........however you can do what others in your age bracket do to get what they want..LIE!!


LXT...............

I'm well aware that the majority of rock climbing does not apply to arbor work. What I am getting out of it is time on rope and becoming more familliar with the various knots used and belay and accention technique. I did not mention it but he has done some tree climbing with rope, only not using saws.
recently a pamplet was mailed to me from the local college (85 miles from me) that does continuing education programs. Inside was a section for ISA. It stated (from what I understand) I can have 2 years of pratical experience or a 2 year or 4 year degree for arbiculture. If They do not accept me at the time then I will try again as soon as I can.
Sir with all due respect, I am not going to lie just to get my certification faster. As far as seeking out a competent "treeman" Give me a name of an ISA cert. arborist within 1 hour of Dalhart, Texas and I'll kiss your feet. To my knowledge (and I may be wrong, but I am certain) There is not a singal person within reasonable distance of where I live that would be willing to show me some of the technique and skill involved for rope climbing. Hence my saying, for the time being I stay low and do not go into areas I'm not comfortable with until I get more experienced with rope climbing.
Just to be clear, I've been doing tree work for about a year only a few months ago did I decide to get inlvolved with the rope climbing aspect of it. Mainly I have used a portable boom lift but that only goes so far (i.e. back yards & tight areas).

Quote- "either way, Be safe & good luck" -Thank you lxt. One of my friends thinks I'm anal about safety. To that I say this. I have not had one single work related injury, nor have any employees in the 3 years I have been landscaping or doing tree work. I make it mandatory that cell phones are to stay off, but kept close by in case of emergency.

I would keep going but I have to leave for the regular meeting at the fire dept. and I would end up with a novel anyway.
 
You dont need a certified arborist to show you how to climb... just find a treeman that can rope climb without spikes.:monkey:
 
Honestly, I would be willing to pay someone, who has experience, a $100 just to spend a day or day and a half with me and show some of the techniques inlvolved. Currently, when I try something new I stay as low as I can in case of failure (knock on wood) and keep doing the same thing several times until I feel competent enough to go higher. I'm considering trying the VT. I've heard good reports on it so far.
 
Offer to travel to someone's business to learn, and you will probably get a taker. Especially if you offer to work for free.

My suggestion would be to sign up for some professional training, pay a higher fee, and get a more valuable experience.
 
Offer to travel to someone's business to learn, and you will probably get a taker. Especially if you offer to work for free.

My suggestion would be to sign up for some professional training, pay a higher fee, and get a more valuable experience.

I'll take the option of working for free if that person is willing to give me a chance. My problem right now is time of year. My probation period for the fire dept. ends in june and between mid august and the end of october I work the corn harvest pushing silage and hmc around the Tx panhandle with some people I have known for several years. That money is WAY to good to pass up. Insane hours though when pushing.
 
I'll take the option of working for free if that person is willing to give me a chance. My problem right now is time of year. My probation period for the fire dept. ends in june and between mid august and the end of october I work the corn harvest pushing silage and hmc around the Tx panhandle with some people I have known for several years. That money is WAY to good to pass up. Insane hours though when pushing.

Sell a high end job and hire a climber to help you do it!
 
Sell a high end job and hire a climber to help you do it!

As far as I know I'm the only person that is doing tree climbing within 4 hours of where I live. I think there is a co. an hour from me jsut found out about them today. I'm gonna check into tomarrow. Biggest job I've had yet was 2 45 foot elms on a small empty lot where they wanted to build a shop. Used a boom lift for it. Topped both to about 14' high, then got the CAT 966G and pushed them over taking the roots and all. Easy job, worst part was driving the loader through the neighborhood.
 
As far as I know I'm the only person that is doing tree climbing within 4 hours of where I live. I think there is a co. an hour from me jsut found out about them today. I'm gonna check into tomarrow. Biggest job I've had yet was 2 45 foot elms on a small empty lot where they wanted to build a shop. Used a boom lift for it. Topped both to about 14' high, then got the CAT 966G and pushed them over taking the roots and all. Easy job, worst part was driving the loader through the neighborhood.

Not really what I meant, I meant sell a high end job
meaning one that pays a very substantial rate and then
ask for one of these gents to help! I know your probably
out in the tumble weed I have trimmed there and large
trees are scarce and only in town. The people love those
trees however and some plant pecan which is a high end job
and very hard climbing requiring limb walking to great distances
and care taken because they are weak wooded! Sell it
for enough to cover the cost of someone taking the road trip
to tumbleweed manor and see if ya can't get a taker!
 
Not really what I meant, I meant sell a high end job
meaning one that pays a very substantial rate and then
ask for one of these gents to help! I know your probably
out in the tumble weed I have trimmed there and large
trees are scarce and only in town. The people love those
trees however and some plant pecan which is a high end job
and very hard climbing requiring limb walking to great distances
and care taken because they are weak wooded! Sell it
for enough to cover the cost of someone taking the road trip
to tumbleweed manor and see if ya can't get a taker!

I know what ya meant rope, I just explained a little further using a previous job as example. Sorry if I cornfused ya.We definitely have a FEW HUGE trees and yes the're in town. Depending on what part of town yur in the trees can be even bigger but that's rare. And as you said most people want them, as long as the're healthy. Thanks for the suggestion rope, Yur a good man.
Out in the tumble weed? Good God man, the only thing that blocks the wind here is the barbed wire and cows. haha. Yeah most of our trees are in town. Outside of town they are pretty small, or were planted next to houses on farms years ago.
 
I know what ya meant rope, I just explained a little further using a previous job as example. Sorry if I cornfused ya.We definitely have a FEW HUGE trees and yes the're in town. Depending on what part of town yur in the trees can be even bigger but that's rare. And as you said most people want them, as long as the're healthy. Thanks for the suggestion rope, Yur a good man.
Out in the tumble weed? Good God man, the only thing that blocks the wind here is the barbed wire and cows. haha. Yeah most of our trees are in town. Outside of town they are pretty small, or were planted next to houses on farms years ago.

Still not quite my meaning but closer I mean high end trimming
on a real nice pecan! Sure you may learn more about rigging
on a huge take down but if it is fine pruning you will learn more
about arbor care and see more climbing skill! Maybe you could
sell both a rigging job and a pruning job now get busy and sell
some work friend:laugh:
 
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