Your thoughts on a new saw.

[tobimax]

So an update on the Dolmar 5000. Had a chance to use it all day yesterday. Nice solid first impressions. Worked fine with one or two observations. Weight feels about the same as the 346. Holding them both together but with a lightweight oregon 18" bar on the 346 and 15" husky bar on the Dolly.
The pick up is much faster on the 346 but then again it is ported. The Dolmar is smooth, maybe because of the throttle cable as opposed to rod on husky. The Dolmar is a bit plumper but nothing to shout about. The hand bar seems wider, but more important thicker! It was only when I was holding the two in each hand that I really noticed. It is quite nice having a few mm thicker bar, especially if you have carpel tunnel, tennis elbow and everything else going! I did not notice it when I was using it, I think that´s good. Cutting wood seemed fine, plenty of power. No causes for concern.
So at the moment I am happy with the two saws. The 346xp is an Italian sports car, will always need a little tinker, but the ride is wild. The Dolly is very German, solid, dependable, you know the one you take home to meet your mother.....
I also wanted to say I love my Stihl 192c. This is my snail, put it on the floor ticking over and it will walk away leaving a track in the sawdust like a snail.
Great for small logs and firewood, takes no effort to turn over, light and just fun to use. Ok, I could improve it with a better bar and chain combo but for now its fine.

 

[Matt81]

So an update on the Dolmar 5000. Had a chance to use it all day yesterday. Nice solid first impressions. Worked fine with one or two observations. Weight feels about the same as the 346. Holding them both together but with a lightweight oregon 18" bar on the 346 and 15" husky bar on the Dolly.
The pick up is much faster on the 346 but then again it is ported. The Dolmar is smooth, maybe because of the throttle cable as opposed to rod on husky. The Dolmar is a bit plumper but nothing to shout about. The hand bar seems wider, but more important thicker! It was only when I was holding the two in each hand that I really noticed. It is quite nice having a few mm thicker bar, especially if you have carpel tunnel, tennis elbow and everything else going! I did not notice it when I was using it, I think that´s good. Cutting wood seemed fine, plenty of power. No causes for concern.
So at the moment I am happy with the two saws. The 346xp is an Italian sports car, will always need a little tinker, but the ride is wild. The Dolly is very German, solid, dependable, you know the one you take home to meet your mother.....
I also wanted to say I love my Stihl 192c. This is my snail, put it on the floor ticking over and it will walk away leaving a track in the sawdust like a snail.
Great for small logs and firewood, takes no effort to turn over, light and just fun to use. Ok, I could improve it with a better bar and chain combo but for now its fine.

Both are very solid reliable saws but..... the 346XP is the better handling and better balanced saw of the 2. Mainly due to the 346XP having an outboard clutch vs the 5105's inboard one. Really crisp and responsive on the throttle. Like you put it so well "The 346xp is an Italian sports car". Husqvarna really got it right with this one. Except for the drunk falling over thing every time you set it down on the ground. I can forgive it for that as it is perfect in almost every other way.

The Dolmar has a slightly better and wider torque band which helps stop the saw bogging down with cutting larger diameter wood. I am talking from the use of my 5105's however. Without ever running a 5000 i am guessing the saw will be very very similar to the 5105. Yes the larger diameter handle bar is a nice thing. I have quite large hands and i find i get sore forearms really quick with a small diameter handlebar because i seem to be "pumping" my forearms as i'm gripping the saw while working as opposed to being able to relax with a larger one and hold it firmly yet more comfortably.

Sorry i can't remember if you said if the bars were 3/8" or 0.325"? Not really important as both saws will handle both size chains with ease. I do find with the chains i use that i like the 346XP with 325" for limbing and smaller wood, while for cutting larger logs for firewood i prefer a 3/8" chain on the Dolmar 5105's. Again this is my experience with the specific chain brands and types i am using at the moment. For different people with different chains and preferences this will in all likelihood not be the same. Both will cut very well with either chain.

I would actually recommend swapping the bars around. Put the 15" on the 346XP and the 18" on the Dolmar. I run a 15" 0.325" bar on my 346XP and like it a lot. This will help keep the balance point closer to the saw body and make it less nose heavy. Keeping the 346XP in a perfect balance is bringing out the best in the saw! It makes an ideal, light yet very easily maneuvered saw for limbing. The Dolmar on the other hand with the better torque band will handle the 18" better in wood around the length of the bar. Plus with the dolmar being slightly more "plump" already it makes sense to not bother too much to try to turn it into something it isn't. Compared to the 346XP it doesn't handle as well or have as good balance. I use the 346XP for limbing and the 5105's for medium size logs. This works very well for me.

 

[tobimax]

Both are very solid reliable saws but..... the 346XP is the better handling and better balanced saw of the 2. Mainly due to the 346XP having an outboard clutch vs the 5105's inboard one. Really crisp and responsive on the throttle. Like you put it so well "The 346xp is an Italian sports car". Husqvarna really got it right with this one. Except for the drunk falling over thing every time you set it down on the ground. I can forgive it for that as it is perfect in almost every other way.

The Dolmar has a slightly better and wider torque band which helps stop the saw bogging down with cutting larger diameter wood. I am talking from the use of my 5105's however. Without ever running a 5000 i am guessing the saw will be very very similar to the 5105. Yes the larger diameter handle bar is a nice thing. I have quite large hands and i find i get sore forearms really quick with a small diameter handlebar because i seem to be "pumping" my forearms as i'm gripping the saw while working as opposed to being able to relax with a larger one and hold it firmly yet more comfortably.

Sorry i can't remember if you said if the bars were 3/8" or 0.325"? Not really important as both saws will handle both size chains with ease. I do find with the chains i use that i like the 346XP with 325" for limbing and smaller wood, while for cutting larger logs for firewood i prefer a 3/8" chain on the Dolmar 5105's. Again this is my experience with the specific chain brands and types i am using at the moment. For different people with different chains and preferences this will in all likelihood not be the same. Both will cut very well with either chain.

I would actually recommend swapping the bars around. Put the 15" on the 346XP and the 18" on the Dolmar. I run a 15" 0.325" bar on my 346XP and like it a lot. This will help keep the balance point closer to the saw body and make it less nose heavy. Keeping the 346XP in a perfect balance is bringing out the best in the saw! It makes an ideal, light yet very easily maneuvered saw for limbing. The Dolmar on the other hand with the better torque band will handle the 18" better in wood around the length of the bar. Plus with the dolmar being slightly more "plump" already it makes sense to not bother too much to try to turn it into something it isn't. Compared to the 346XP it doesn't handle as well or have as good balance. I use the 346XP for limbing and the 5105's for medium size logs. This works very well for me.

I put the 15" on the dolly as I knew what size of wood I was cutting and 18" would have been overkill. I am using .325 chains at mo. 15" husky bar .058 Husky semi chisel chain. You are right in saying the 346 and 15" is good, it is my normal set up. I quite like the Husky chain, it has lasted better than the oregon I had before.
and 2x 18" .058 .325 one lightweight, and one heavy weight with removable tip. oregon chain s-chisel LPX (I think on both)

I was going to replace the 15" with a Sugihara eventually. Would I be pushing it with a 20" bar on the dolly? How large would you go? From looking at the data the 5000 and the 5105 are "the same", with the 5105 using a kat.

 

[MountainHigh]

. . . The 346xp is an Italian sports car, will always need a little tinker, but the ride is wild. The Dolly is very German, solid, dependable, you know the one you take home to meet your mother.....
I also wanted to say I love my Stihl 192c. This is my snail, put it on the floor ticking over and it will walk away leaving a track in the sawdust like a snail.

great descriptions !

 

[Matt81]

I put the 15" on the dolly as I knew what size of wood I was cutting and 18" would have been overkill. I am using .325 chains at mo. 15" husky bar .058 Husky semi chisel chain. You are right in saying the 346 and 15" is good, it is my normal set up. I quite like the Husky chain, it has lasted better than the oregon I had before.
and 2x 18" .058 .325 one lightweight, and one heavy weight with removable tip. oregon chain s-chisel LPX (I think on both)

I was going to replace the 15" with a Sugihara eventually. Would I be pushing it with a 20" bar on the dolly? How large would you go? From looking at the data the 5000 and the 5105 are "the same", with the 5105 using a kat.

I have used a 20" on both my 5105's. I tried a 78DL .325 050 and a 72DL 3/8" 050. It was ok, but especially for our Aussie hardwoods is the absolute maximum i would want to run. If you are mainly cutting clean green softwood i am sure you would not be unhappy. When i bought my 1st 5105 the largest bar option from Dolmar was a 20" .325 so they would not offer it from the factory if it was totally useless. For me though having the luxury of several bigger saws if the wood gets bigger I just use a more appropriate saw.

I generally run either a 16" .325 050 66DL or a 18" 3/8 050 68DL. I have many bars and chains in many different sizes due to having so many saws with this same K095 mount. These 2 however are the 2 sizes i use almost 95% of the time.

Sugihara makes a very nice bar. As I'm sure you are aware they charge a very nice price however. For this reason alone i cannot justify it when i can buy 2 Oregon or GB bars for the same money.

I quite like the Husky chain, it has lasted better than the Oregon I had before.

To the best of my knowledge that Husky chain would have been made by Oregon. All of my Husky 3/8" and .325 chains are re-branded Oregon's. There was talk of Husky starting manufacture of their own chain around a year ago. Don't know if it has gotten into full swing though.

From this article:
http://rermag.com/supply-side/husqvarna-invest-us-159-million-chainsaw-production-facility

 

[WHSH]

I was very impressed with the new dolmar 6100 (i think that is the model) , a strato saw that real is an improvment over the other brands strato saws. Cuts like an old school no strato saw.

 

[WHSH]

I put the 15" on the dolly as I knew what size of wood I was cutting and 18" would have been overkill. I am using .325 chains at mo. 15" husky bar .058 Husky semi chisel chain. You are right in saying the 346 and 15" is good, it is my normal set up. I quite like the Husky chain, it has lasted better than the oregon I had before.
and 2x 18" .058 .325 one lightweight, and one heavy weight with removable tip. oregon chain s-chisel LPX (I think on both)

I was going to replace the 15" with a Sugihara eventually. Would I be pushing it with a 20" bar on the dolly? How large would you go? From looking at the data the 5000 and the 5105 are "the same", with the 5105 using a kat.

If you are worried about 20" being more than the Dolmar would like, just try a full skip chain, that should help keep the rpms up and cutting.

 

[tobimax]

I was very impressed with the new dolmar 6100 (i think that is the model) , a strato saw that real is an improvment over the other brands strato saws. Cuts like an old school no strato saw.

In an ideal world this, the 6100, would have been the one I would have bought. Funny enough the guy I bought the 5000 off replaced it with a 6100. The saw was used for firewood and it came from Bavaria, Germany. When I fired it up and used it for a while, I took the top off to check the plug color. The smell of alpine forest just hit me. The warmed up oils from the wood came off the saw which reminded me of my time there.

 

[tobimax]

If you are worried about 20" being more than the Dolmar would like, just try a full skip chain, that should help keep the rpms up and cutting.

Skip chains are virtually impossible to get here.

 

[WHSH]

You can order them from bailey's by the drive link or the the foot in a bulk roll. I know its a pain, but there are good to have a couple around.

 

[Matt81]

I was very impressed with the new dolmar 6100 (i think that is the model) , a strato saw that real is an improvment over the other brands strato saws. Cuts like an old school no strato saw.

In an ideal world this, the 6100, would have been the one I would have bought. Funny enough the guy I bought the 5000 off replaced it with a 6100. The saw was used for firewood and it came from Bavaria, Germany. When I fired it up and used it for a while, I took the top off to check the plug color. The smell of alpine forest just hit me. The warmed up oils from the wood came off the saw which reminded me of my time there.

I have heard good things about the PS-6100. I hope Makita will sell it here so i can buy one, even though the Dolmar colours look way better and i am against paying our ridiculous retail prices for saws.
I already have a Husky 365 X-torq that i am very happy with so no point in me getting a 6100 as they are so close in specs. I am however very tempted to try one soon. Plus i have a Husky 562XP new in the box that i can't wait to try out as soon as it stops raining and dries out. Too......many......saws........

I do like the idea of such a big fuel tank on a 60cc saw. 800Ml and a full 30 minute runtime. I know it would cut stronger and for longer than my 365XT, but i am just a bit sentimental about that saw i guess. It might sound funny with all the saws i collect and have but i don't want to replace it because there is no need while it is working so well.

Skip chains are virtually impossible to get here.

I am not 100% familiar with the species of wood you would commonly cut, but here in Australia even with our brutally tough hardwoods a full comp 20" in either .325 or 3/8" was ok. You really are asking a lot from the saw but as long as you ease it through the cut with the felling spike/s and not force it in and cause it to bog down it will cut fine.

Full skip chains do exist here but not to the extent of the US. If you can afford it just have a bigger saw for bigger wood. Less teeth on a chain means less teeth cutting each time the chain spins so it cuts slower. It is really only a short term solution to running a bar too big on a saw that is too small. They do have their uses however with certain tree species as the extra space between the teeth allows the sawdust to be carried out of the cut easier. I know on certain box species here that have a super tight grain, running a full skip semi-chisel (or even better a skip sequence carbide chain because they are so brutal on chain teeth) can be the difference between cutting ok or not. I have a full skip chain or 2 laying around for just that reason. For anything else i never touch them as they cut too slow with less teeth.

 

[WHSH]

I have a chance to become a makita saw dealer and I too am disappointed in the limited options in blue saws. It makes it hard to sell them, you are always refering to the red saws when you talk to the customer. I think that you are correct on the skip cutting slower when matched rpm to rpm but the idea is that you can maintain a higher rpm with a skip and thus it might just be tie with regards regarding cutting speeds. The plus is that you can have a longer bar.

 

[Matt81]

I think that you are correct on the skip cutting slower when matched rpm to rpm but the idea is that you can maintain a higher rpm with a skip and thus it might just be tie with regards regarding cutting speeds. The plus is that you can have a longer bar.

I know on the 2 skip chains i have there are half the number of teeth than a standard chain. On the same saw running at the same RPM's there are going to be half as many teeth passing any one point on the bar. Yes i know that the idea is to have less teeth so less resistance so the saw can keep up a higher RPM in the cut, but unless you are getting much much higher RPM in the cut to make the same number of teeth go past as a normal chain, it will always cut slower. From my experience running full skip Vs standard on the same saws in the same wood it is not even close. Full comp always cuts quicker.

 

[Matt81]

I have a chance to become a makita saw dealer and I too am disappointed in the limited options in blue saws. It makes it hard to sell them, you are always refering to the red saws when you talk to the customer.

If you do i will buy a saw (or 3) from you!

The sad reality is that Makita gets its rep from it's power tools. Cordless drills, circular saws, plunge routers....etc...etc. Here in Australia and in many other countries including the US their advertising strategy and market exposure for the chainsaws is nothing short of dismal. Many people and tree workers i talk to think that Makita had only just got into the chainsaw market and that these were all new Japanese Makita designed saws. I had to explain to them about Makita buying Dolmar in 1993 and that they are all quality German Dolmar saws with a different colour plastic. I guess they are happy to sell a smaller amount because their company overall makes so much money off its other products.

I know in the UK Dolmar is even selling the 5105, 3410 top handle , plus a nice looking 30cc tiny top handle of only 3.1 Kg in Makita colours. Even the New Zealand website for Makita has way way more petrol saws to choose from than here in Australia. 17 Vs our 8. We are a much bigger population and have a much bigger tree care and forestry industry yet we get all of 8 saws to choose from. Yes 8. The same 8 basically we had 4 years ago when i bought my 7900. There are no real top handles, only a crappy 22cc 1hp saw that is a joke for someone like me. It is advertised as "Fast acceleration and low emissions". That is because when you press the chain against the tree the saw stalls. That's the real reason it has low emissions, because it stalled and turned off. 1 hp? Surely they are not serious?

New Zealand and UK Makita even have the new 6100 saw!! They also have the 3410 top handle!! And New Zealand still sell the good old reliable Dolmar 111, through both Makita and Dolmar so you have a choice of colours!! I still have my 111i. It's is a nice robust and reliable saw. New Zealand also have the PS-5000! It has the same specs as my 5105 but no cat and is listed as 4.7Kg dry. My 5105 was listed as 5.4 kg and i know the cat material was not 0.7 kg when i removed it! If the 5000 is honestly so light i want one! And soon!

When i bought my 7900 it was $1035. Free upgrade to a 24" bar. Free 4 L bar oil and a free 1 L synthetic 2-stroke oil.
It would was basically half the price of a 372XP or a MS460 when you factor in i would have had to pay extra for the bar upgrade from stock and $50 for the bar oil and $25 for the 2-stroke oil.
Big difference in price when the 7900 cuts better than both of them!!

I cannot complain to Makita Australia and offer my advice to sell more models here. They do not answer my emails anymore. I was not rude at all, just maybe a little bit too persistent. I have done all i can. I sincerly hope they do stock more models and soon as they are loosing out. Basically here everyone knows of Stihl and Husky when they buy a new saw. Quality wise and price wise Makita/Dolmar would be a real wakeup call to Stihl and Husky here as they would need to justify their saws inflated prices. Try and sell them a Dolmar/Makita or a Solo or Jonsered or an Efco and their response probably would be, "What's that. Never heard of it. Is it made in China?"

 

[jpj6780]

I know on the 2 skip chains i have there are half the number of teeth than a standard chain. On the same saw running at the same RPM's there are going to be half as many teeth passing any one point on the bar. Yes i know that the idea is to have less teeth so less resistance so the saw can keep up a higher RPM in the cut, but unless you are getting much much higher RPM in the cut to make the same number of teeth go past as a normal chain, it will always cut slower. From my experience running full skip Vs standard on the same saws in the same wood it is not even close. Full comp always cuts quicker.

Should be more teeth than that on a full skip. For instance, on a full comp chain, there is 1 tooth per 2 drivelinks; on a full skip, there is 1 tooth per 3 drive links (I'll add that in a semi-skip, there are 2 teeth per 5 drivelinks).

So going from full comp to full skip, for example, on a 72dl chain, full comp is 36 teeth and full skip would be 24 teeth. That's a 33% reduction in teeth. The semi-skip would give you 28/29 teeth (depending how it comes off the roll) for a 20% reduction in teeth.

 

[Matt81]

Should be more teeth than that on a full skip. For instance, on a full comp chain, there is 1 tooth per 2 drivelinks; on a full skip, there is 1 tooth per 3 drive links (I'll add that in a semi-skip, there are 2 teeth per 5 drivelinks).

So going from full comp to full skip, for example, on a 72dl chain, full comp is 36 teeth and full skip would be 24 teeth. That's a 33% reduction in teeth. The semi-skip would give you 28/29 teeth (depending how it comes off the roll) for a 20% reduction in teeth.

Yes all perfectly true, but these are not standard factory loops. These were custom made for just cutting the box species i mentioned in the earlier post. I thought i made it clear i use them only for this kind of cutting as with anything else they are too slow. I know that they are very close to having half the number of teeth. If i count them it won't be exactly 50% but it will be a lot closer to 50% than a 20% reduction.

 

[jpj6780]

Yes all perfectly true, but these are not standard factory loops. These were custom made for just cutting the box species i mentioned in the earlier post. I thought i made it clear i use them only for this kind of cutting as with anything else they are too slow. I know that they are very close to having half the number of teeth. If i count them it won't be exactly 50% but it will be a lot closer to 50% than a 20% reduction.

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Matt81]

Tobimax, could you humor me, and when you get a chance weigh the PS-5000 empty of fuel and oil and power head only? I have 2 5105's one without a cat which i removed but the other i have not got around to removing yet. I will weigh them tomorrow.

If the 5000 is actually so much lighter (0.7 Kg) than the 5105 i am going to get one from Dolmar New Zealand while i can. I would appreciate a 3.8 Hp saw that's well under 5 kg when I'm blocking down larger wood.

 

[John R]

I'd get a 555, or 560xp. Then rebuild the 346xp! Best of all worlds!

Or just get a better saw and go with Stihl.

 

[Matt81]

Or just get a better saw and go with Stihl.

Damn! 99 posts before being told to "go buy a Stihl"

Oh well maybe we will get to 100 next time!