028 Super vs. 346XP

[teatersroad]

I love reading all these threads about this saw is better for... and that saw is great because...
But the ones that always give me a chuckle are the comments about this saw is the bomb IF you MM and its even more IF you port and IF you replace the coil and...
I think you get the picture. There are enough members on here I believe who want to hear about the saw as it we receive it correctly set up by a knowledgeable dealer. If I buy a $500 saw its one thing to spend $20 to get it tweaked and quite another spending $250-$300. At that point it may as well be the next model or two higher up the line, IMO.

My point is just this, that a saw should not NEED to have all kinds of modifications done to it to make it a serious contender. Just like a true athlete should not need steroids and such to make them shine either. My $0.02 anyway.

I don't disagree. In fact I pointed out in earlier posts in this thread that the 346 is not dope some folks say it is. However, he does have one - as do I. I was disappointed with mine (as is the OP) and had no choice but to hop it up. I needed it for work and I couldn't just run out and buy another new saw, so I did what I did - and it turns out that was a good thing.

Would I buy another one? No, I don't think so (wouldn't buy a 50cc Stihl or Dolmar either). I want the power I need in a stock saw, then if I choose I could tune it or not.

 

[chainsaw kid]

Well I certainly appreciate that. This is by far the most generous offer I have ever had from a stranger.

PM coming.:msp_smile:

No problem. I can tell you respect the old saw and will treat it right. We're not going to Indy with it but it will pull a 3/8 18" B&C nicely. That is the way I'm planning on setting it up. Also, I require you to run a certain mix. I have my reasons and will explain when we talk. I think you will be very happy with the 028 Super.

No I would not trade a new 346 for another 028.

Neither would I. The 346 is more versatile IMO. There is a lot to gain with that saw too! The key is to keep them practical...

 

[sunfish]

My newer 346xp is stock and cuts very well, no need at all for any mods.

I ported my old one just for fun, started goin to GTGs and enjoy racing saws. The old 45cc 346 has beat many saws and all were more cc's. Now that's fun.

That said, the new one might get a MM at some point, but maybe not...

 

[sawfun9]

The 028 super was designed as a one saw do it all for firewood cutters and homeowners. In that role it still measures up, It is however quite different from the 346 in purpose of intent. The 346 was designed specifically for European style limbing (6 point) and it excels at that. The first time I used mine on 3-4 inch limbs I understood what light saber meant. On firewood I was disappointed though. But, I must remember that's not what it was intended for. Here in the US we expected the stock 346 to perform a certain way, and that was a bit unfair. The 028 super probably does have more torque than a stock 346, but then saws of that era usually do have more than todays. Given that, it would be hard to argue that the 028 handles better than the 346 when limbing or moving quickly in wood. And it won't out limb the 346. I know I have both.

 

[chainsaw kid]

The 028 super was designed as a one saw do it all for firewood cutters and homeowners. In that role it still measures up, It is however quite different from the 346 in purpose of intent. The 346 was designed specifically for European style limbing (6 point) and it excels at that. The first time I used mine on 3-4 inch limbs I understood what light saber meant. On firewood I was disappointed though. But, I must remember that's not what it was intended for. Here in the US we expected the stock 346 to perform a certain way, and that was a bit unfair. The 028 super probably does have more torque than a stock 346, but then saws of that era usually do have more than todays. Given that, it would be hard to argue that the 028 handles better than the 346 when limbing or moving quickly in wood. And it won't out limb the 346. I know I have both.

Huh...O.K, if you say so. That nimble light 346 must suck at limbing...hmm..hmmm.....hmmmm.....

 

[WadePatton]

where are the dyno sheets?

seat o' pants tuning is horribly fraught with errors and bias.

borexstroke gives displacement. this is fixed. i don't know the bore/stroke of these baby saws, but you'll always find differences where the dimensions are different-even when the cc's are nearly identical. Sorter stroke is better for higher r's, Higher R's support HP. THEN as stated above--mass. More mass, be it flywheel/crank/piston -any moving part, will contribute to stored inertia and the "feeling of torque" but WILL ALSO slow the acceleration. Snappy acceleration is the hallmark of the limbing saw. Grunty torque is what pulls you through w/o bogging.

Torque is a measure of the ability to do work, w/o regard to time.
HP is a measure of the ability to do work relative to time.

Torque must exist for job to be done. HP makes it happen faster.

But with a given displacement there's only so much fuel/air that can enter the combustion chamber. POWER is a function of FUEL. YOU want more POWER, BURN more FUEL.

How far one wants to go pushing fuel in/out of system is just a matter of how much you want to spend.

Port timing affects fuel consumption-it _is_ your camshaft. Port sizes affect your fuel consumption, can't burn it if it won't go in. Ignition timing affects your hp/tq curves relative to RPM-but most folks don't play with that.

no
way
around
that--fuel makes power.

no brand no where.

The EPA doesn't like for anyone to burn fuel. Pretty much piffes them off.

I say take whatever color saw you like and make it run like you want to. eff warranties and brand baiting. they'll all run.

 

[wigglesworth]

No I would not trade a new 346 for another 028.

I would trade my brand new, never fueled 346xp for a brand new never fueled 028 super in a heartbeat.

If u haven't ran a modded up 028 super, your missing out. The last one I had, I set the squish, blended the lower transfers, and opened the muffler. Ended up with 190lbs of compression and it would absolutely spank the 026 I traded it for It ran alot more like a 60cc saw than a 50cc. Too bad I let it go....Oh well, u live u learn....

 

[MacLaren]

I would trade my brand new, never fueled 346xp for a brand new never fueled 028 super in a heartbeat.

If u haven't ran a modded up 028 super, your missing out. The last one I had, I set the squish, blended the lower transfers, and opened the muffler. Ended up with 190lbs of compression and it would absolutely spank the 026 I traded it for It ran alot more like a 60cc saw than a 50cc. Too bad I let it go....Oh well, u live u learn....

I can certainly see that happening! I bet it was a beast. Been ponderin gettin that 028AV Super of mine modded......

 

[teatersroad]

Right. saying your 50cc saw is badass is kinda like saying your honda civic is bad ass. It might do a great job, but it aint badass.

 

[chainsaw kid]

I would trade my brand new, never fueled 346xp for a brand new never fueled 028 super in a heartbeat.

....

That is a different story... But that opens up more room for B/S in this guys thread.

I know he will be very happy with the modded 028 Super

 

[MacLaren]

Right. saying your 50cc saw is badass is kinda like saying your honda civic is bad ass. It might do a great job, but it aint badass.

LOL, thats funny! ......and true .......I guess........:help:

 

[roostersgt]

Right. saying your 50cc saw is badass is kinda like saying your honda civic is bad ass. It might do a great job, but it aint badass.

I cetainly wouldn't consider the 028 a "badass" saw, more like the dependable Chevy truck sporting a reliable and plentiful 350. Kinda mundane, but uber reliable, powerful and dependable to a fault.

 

[WadePatton]

I cetainly wouldn't consider the 028 a "badass" saw, more like the dependable Chevy truck sporting a reliable and plentiful 350. Kinda mundane, but uber reliable, powerful and dependable to a fault.

and just like the pickup if you throw it in a pond it will sink,



wait
.
..
.
.
for
.
.
.
.
.

it







LIKE A ROCK!

 

[J.W Younger]

and just like the pickup if you throw it in a pond it will sink,



wait
.
..
.
.
for
.
.
.
.
.

it







LIKE A ROCK!

Hey, that some good info there. Do you know if someone makes one that will float?

 

[teatersroad]

The root of X-vs-Y threads. Sinkers or floaters.

It's probably been a year since I ducked into one of these. I'm going to see if I can't double that this time.

 

[c5rulz]

Right. saying your 50cc saw is badass is kinda like saying your honda civic is bad ass. It might do a great job, but it aint badass.

Ya know around here the asian kids put their f@rt can mufflers on Civics and feel this mod ads at least 35 HP.


Soooooo....... can muffler mods be construed in the same light??????:msp_w00t:



Seriously now, is there any actual hard #'s on performance gains other than "seat of the pants feel" as others have eluded to?

I do appreciate everyone's input. The saw is going in Monday or Tuesday to have the high speed cap removed and re-tuned with a tach. I'll make a decision from there on if the saw needs to be "woke up" more.

 

[walexa07]

Definitely a difference.

For my saw, with a 16" bar and 3/8" chain, it was the difference between stalling the saw with light pressure stock versus being able to apply fairly moderate pressure and no stall with the muffler mod - this is bucking. Throttle response became instant as well with the muffler mod.

Waylan

 

[WadePatton]

sinkers
floaters
mud

The root of X-vs-Y threads. Sinkers or floaters.

It's probably been a year since I ducked into one of these. I'm going to see if I can't double that this time.

 

[sunfish]

Ya know around here the asian kids put their f@rt can mufflers on Civics and feel this mod ads at least 35 HP.


Soooooo....... can muffler mods be construed in the same light??????:msp_w00t:



Seriously now, is there any actual hard #'s on performance gains other than "seat of the pants feel" as others have eluded to?

I do appreciate everyone's input. The saw is going in Monday or Tuesday to have the high speed cap removed and re-tuned with a tach. I'll make a decision from there on if the saw needs to be "woke up" more.

Seat of the pants feel here. But yes, it makes a difference!

 

[c5rulz]

Update!

Well I had the 346XP into the shop.

The saw was re-tuned and the RPM was brought up 400RPM. The small tweak made a noticeable difference in sound while running WOT.

Since I managed to hit some barb wire hidden in brush yesterday, cheap old me had to put a new LPX chain on. The resulsts are satisfactory. I could bury the bar in oak and lean on it without stalling the chain. It did pull the saw down when using the spikes, but it ran good. Maybe I can again be in the good graces of the Sawtroll for speaking heresy about the 346 :msp_tongue:


One more thing, the Husky dealer also checked the Makita 6401 and Stihl 028 for tune and didn't charge me a dime. FWIW the 028 Super was right on the money and I tuned that one myself. The tech said that extremely small adjustments resulted in swings of 700 RPM.:eek2: