Huztl FarmerTec 070 Build Thread with upgrade info and completed saw
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The only current production saw with the 3002 mount is the MS880.
Mac&Homelite
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Yep, when I was in the dealer last time a month or so ago, the 251s were of china origin, pretty sure the 171 & 181 were the same also. Another interesting thing I noticed while building my ms361 was some machining marks on the carb. It was right where the zama (or whoever makes them) logo would have been on one of the covers. Quite interesting, I though, that they would add an extra step to the process to set it up in a mill and remove the logo.
Nice that should help you out. I've got that manual also. It has 92 pages I believe.
Honda_man
ArboristSite Member
Interesting discussion that definitely has me riding the fence. Bottom line, companies like Huztl are clearly riding on the coat tail of STIHL. They are selling these as STIHL parts kits, knowing good and well folks are assembling them and thinking they have a cheaper version of STIHL quality and technology. Sure, most everyone knows they are not OEM, but are just happy to have that model saw for a song rather than for the first two children and half the third one (especially the larger saws). Truth is, they are making money off the technology, research, and development of STIHL.
But, that's the way it goes. There are so many aftermarket companies out there, all making "will fit" parts that are actually using the intellectual property of the OEM, and not their own. Design, materials, everything. Even names such Oregon and hiway and sugihara. Right or wrong, therefore, they are very popular.
We use aftermarket stuff in every area of our life, from cheap house hold (Wal-Mart branded, etc.) are all aftermarket, cheapo copies. The question is, just how far are we going. To be fair, Oregon, Carlton, and every other such brand is living off.
Like I said, I'm torn. Where do you start? Where do you stop? I use a good but of parts from aftermarket brands but this has me thinking. If I rebuild a saw with aftermarket parts, does the buyer think the parts are OEM? Am I (unintentionally) receiving them? There has to be a line in the sand. But where?
But, that's the way it goes. There are so many aftermarket companies out there, all making "will fit" parts that are actually using the intellectual property of the OEM, and not their own. Design, materials, everything. Even names such Oregon and hiway and sugihara. Right or wrong, therefore, they are very popular.
We use aftermarket stuff in every area of our life, from cheap house hold (Wal-Mart branded, etc.) are all aftermarket, cheapo copies. The question is, just how far are we going. To be fair, Oregon, Carlton, and every other such brand is living off.
Like I said, I'm torn. Where do you start? Where do you stop? I use a good but of parts from aftermarket brands but this has me thinking. If I rebuild a saw with aftermarket parts, does the buyer think the parts are OEM? Am I (unintentionally) receiving them? There has to be a line in the sand. But where?
Who cares where something is made. As long as it is made according to the right specs. Chinese are just as capable to make a decent machine as anybody else. It's just that quality products aren't produced in the same quantity are crappy stuff. And as long as you aren't making bulk products it doesn't make as much sense to outsource it to China. If toyota brings their QC guys to their chinese car plant, I'm sure the result will be the same.
Now in this case. Some manufacturers make cheap copies of stone age technology. Just like those VW beatles that where made in Mexico untill recently. No one will think the it is even comparable. They are made from glossy plastics. They have funny sounding brand names. Not even close to the original. Does Stihl care? I don't think so. For them it is just a sprinkle of free extra attention. Oh you started milling with a 100+ lead plated nylon chainsaw? And it was ruined in a week? You might concider the 880 wich is actually the right tool for the job. In the mean time, some guys didn't go drink and drive. Didn't go light a homeless guy on fire. Because they were trying to fit a huge cylinder wich isn't exactly the correct size to a chassis wich also isn't a made using quality machining. But oh my. When it does run for a couple of days, will be all worth all the missed out fun you could have had the past couple of months.
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Now in this case. Some manufacturers make cheap copies of stone age technology. Just like those VW beatles that where made in Mexico untill recently. No one will think the it is even comparable. They are made from glossy plastics. They have funny sounding brand names. Not even close to the original. Does Stihl care? I don't think so. For them it is just a sprinkle of free extra attention. Oh you started milling with a 100+ lead plated nylon chainsaw? And it was ruined in a week? You might concider the 880 wich is actually the right tool for the job. In the mean time, some guys didn't go drink and drive. Didn't go light a homeless guy on fire. Because they were trying to fit a huge cylinder wich isn't exactly the correct size to a chassis wich also isn't a made using quality machining. But oh my. When it does run for a couple of days, will be all worth all the missed out fun you could have had the past couple of months.
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fwgsaw
don't call me i will call you!!
Actually yes Stihl does care. If you do some research on this you will find that they are doing a few things about it.
you are right, they did come up with an exact copy that had the same decals and stuffs. it became an issue which pushed stihl to open a plant in china, that was the reason stihl opening plant in china. i was told you cant sue them from this side of the world unless you have a plant there and register your patent to stop 3rd parties from copying.
and that was when stihl came out with ms720 to counter the counterfeit, while it might be just a business gimmick. they manage to get the 3rd worlds trust back in their product.
if im not mistaken 3002 comes exlusively in 0.063 gauge. i think you got yourself confused with pitch and gauge, 3/8 and .404 comes in few other mount pattern. it could be 0.063 3/8, 0.063 .404 and so on
Those exact copies I've also seen on the Dutch Craiglist (marktplaats). That's a totally different story. Selling outright dangerous (so far, that's my experience with those cheap and cheersfull machines) hardware wich a novice use can't distinguish from the real deal. That should be considered a crime.
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Boomer 87
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With all the industry being built in china everyday, your absolutely right the chinese can make high quality parts and equipment. That being said do you really think there going to make the very best as an export to send to the U.S. or other countries?
There making some good stuff over there, we just arent seeing it here, bc there keeping the good stuff to themselves.
There making some good stuff over there, we just arent seeing it here, bc there keeping the good stuff to themselves.
Boomer 87
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I figured they would all be .063 gauge only, but if there sprocket tipped bars, they could be 3/8 or .404 pitch. Unless there exclusively hardnose bars.
totally forgot you guys dig the sprocket nose, we only use hardnose here
it would matter in that case
That's what they thought about japan in the 60's. They also started of with cheaply made copies and quantity over quality. Now they are the world leaders in precision engineering.
But anyway. Let's not distact OP with politics while he is building/contemplating his 137cc Harley Davidson milling machine.
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I simply don't care for a counterfeit product, regardless of what it is. That's exactly what these are.
Derf
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I'm a machinist, so yes I use tools to make a living. But the people who want this knock-off saw aren't loggers or felling 6' trees for a living; they are avg Joes with limited funds who want to do a little milling here or there or add to their saw collection. Anyone who does full-time milling would pretty quickly realize they want a band saw anyway, regardless of the quality of the chainsaw.
They are tinkerers, hobbyists, they enjoy building, obviously, because these saws come as kits. If I had to build my own lathe just to machine a part every few weeks for fun I wouldn't be able to make a living. So don't confuse the target audience here.
fwgsaw
don't call me i will call you!!
Guess my point is whether there full time professional or a hobiest it doesn't much matter, buying a cheap reproduction to get a job done will cost them in the end. Reliability and resale are the 2 big ones that come to mind for me. I bought my first 090 back in 2006 and have used it on big jobs with no mechanical problems so far and it's worth more then I paid for it after 10 years. My opinion it's worth saving some coin to buy a better investment.
Got to agree with Brad. It's the dishonesty that bothers me -- the company is cashing in on Stihl's name, reputation, engineering, and product development. It's one thing to reverse engineer a product and then try to improve it, but an exact copy of another company's product is why we have copyright laws.
Having said that, I can understand why they are appealing to some folks -- they are a fraction of the price of a new MS270, and that's if you can find someone to ship you one from Asia or South America. So while I won't be signing up for my own, I won't necessarily condemn those who do.
so why don't uuu tell us all, what are the good copies......since theres are a few on here, who consider themselves to be "experts" in anything.........
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