AVGAS ??'s

[davefr]

I'm thinking about switching to AVGAS for my OPE. I can get it at a small airport for about $1 more per gallon then premium. I have a few questions:

1. What it the typical shelf life of AVGAS? What makes it keep from going stale?

2. Is it still recommended to use STABIL?

3. I know chainsaws love high octane but could the high octane cause any unintended consequences in other OPE such as 4 cycle generators, tillers, log splitters that specify regular 87 octane gas? (I'd really like to use AVGAS in my backup generator if it stays fresh longer).

4. If high octane is bad for 4 cycle OPE engines would a blend of regular and AVGAS be a good idea? Would the AVGAS blend help keep regular gas from going stale.

TIA

 

[andrethegiant70]

Avgas is usually labeled 100LL. The LL stands for "low Lead." I don't think there's much lead in it compared to the auto gas from the old days, but then again. whatever there is, you are going to be breathing it as opposed to leaving it behind you as you drive down the road. I suppose you could choose to focus on the "low" part of the equation, but you might want to evaluate just what you think about the 'lead" portion. I'm sure there are more than a few toxicology studies on the matter.

Just my 2 cents.... what I want to know if when someone is going to bring Aspen to the US.

 

[Fish]

I'm thinking about switching to AVGAS for my OPE. I can get it at a small airport for about $1 more per gallon then premium. I have a few questions:

1. What it the typical shelf life of AVGAS? What makes it keep from going stale?

2. Is it still recommended to use STABIL?

3. I know chainsaws love high octane but could the high octane cause any unintended consequences in other OPE such as 4 cycle generators, tillers, log splitters that specify regular 87 octane gas? (I'd really like to use AVGAS in my backup generator if it stays fresh longer).

4. If high octane is bad for 4 cycle OPE engines would a blend of regular and AVGAS be a good idea? Would the AVGAS blend help keep regular gas from going stale.

TIA

WHY???

 

[Lakeside53]

It keeps for years.. without Stabil. Why? it's all in the refining process.

 

[davefr]

WHY???

Because keeping gasoline fresh in equipment that doesn't get used frequently is a major PIA. (ex: backup generator)

As I understand it, AVGAS has a superior shelf life .

 

[Lakeside53]

For that, it works great.... 2 years easily... probably many time that...

 

[Ironbark]

100LL at the airport near me is a snip at $11.95/USG :jawdrop:

Aspen is about $17/USG, but that includes synthetic oil and I swear it smells like BBQ when you burn it

Buddy of mine used to dump the 100LL fuel drained from the aircraft fuel tanks into a 4 stoke Briggs or Honda 5 hp jobbie and it did not run well at all.

 

[Dieseldriver]

I have friends who work at an airport that have been using it for years.I've personally seen things start up and run PERFECT on 10 year old AVGAS!Very good stuff to have on hand for a SHTF situation!

 

[24d]

Avgas is usually labeled 100LL. The LL stands for "low Lead." I don't think there's much lead in it compared to the auto gas from the old days, but then again. whatever there is, you are going to be breathing it as opposed to leaving it behind you as you drive down the road. I suppose you could choose to focus on the "low" part of the equation, but you might want to evaluate just what you think about the 'lead" portion. I'm sure there are more than a few toxicology studies on the matter.

Just my 2 cents.... what I want to know if when someone is going to bring Aspen to the US.

I'm pretty sure 100LL has many times more lead than any auto gas ever had, I'v also read it is the worlds largest supplier of lead pollution.

 

[stevestuckey]

Runs good in my 131 V twin. Ran good in my J5. Runs good in my saws. Smells good in all of 'em.

 

[Nitroman]

I'm pretty sure 100LL has many times more lead than any auto gas ever had, I'v also read it is the worlds largest supplier of lead pollution.

Unfortunately most on here are 20-30 somethings too young to remember, too easily brainwashed, and too indolent to research the use of tetraethyl-lead in automobiles.

Use the gas. It's good stuff.

 

[propliner]

I am another firm believer in 100LL avgas. The storage properties are incomparably better to dirty, mass-produced, unrefined gasoline. The lead helps with extra lubrication. I've run it for years in my motorcycle (has never run better), quad, lawnmower, weedeater, and chainsaws and even ran my old AMC on it for a couple of years when it was cheap. Never had the slightest problem with it. It is also less succeptible to vapor lock and leaves no varnish with age. It starts right up at -40. I think the greatest advantage is for storage, virtually eliminating the need to drain the tank and run it dry. Filling a drum with avgas is cheaper for me in the long run because I don't always have to drive to the gas station for fresh gasoline. And I know avgas will store for years.

 

[Urbicide]

About 33 years ago, we ran a tank of 100L through a 1974 Cutlass Supreme with a 455 4bbl, factory duals, and around 30,000 miles.. A week later I opened up the breather cover and was somewhat surprised. The Rochester Quadra Jet looked like it was a brand new carb. Looked down the bores and they were all spotess. There was not a smudge on it or in it.

 

[24d]

Unfortunately most on here are 20-30 somethings too young to remember, too easily brainwashed, and too indolent to research the use of tetraethyl-lead in automobiles.

Use the gas. It's good stuff.

Why are you quoting me?? I'm not any of those things and I use 100LL all the time.

 

[Buckethead]

In a former life I worked as an aircraft fueler at the local Airports. At that time we ran 100LL (100 octane Low Lead) in all the equipment that required gasoline....provided that the equipment didn't have a catalytic converter or fuel injection. Fortunately that wasn't an issue for us in the 1980's as much of our ground equipment was from the 60's and 70's.

Apparently AVGAS was not compatible with the automotive Fuel Injection seals and would swell them. Also the 100LL has 6 times the lead of leaded auto fuel (according to our EXXON rep) and it would clog a catalytic converter solid very quickly.

Every day we would "sump" the fuel trucks and fuel farm tanks. This involved draining between a pint and a quart of fuel into a white porcelain bucket and checking for water. There was very rarely any water in the fuel and the contents of the bucket were either tossed in the dirt or dumped into a 55 gal. drum. When the drum was full we'd have a drawing among all the fuelers to see who would get to take it home. All the guys with houses really wanted the drum full of AVJET-A...it's nothing more than really clean kerosene and burns nicely in your oil furnace.

I have a number of friends that use AVGAS in old motorcycles, cars, and tractors. Most of them cut it 25%-75% with auto fuel and have good results. The increased octane prevents pre-ignition (knocking) and the lead helps lubricate the valves. Cutting it with auto gas also helps take some of the sting out of the AVGAS price.

I believe the reason that AVGAS has such a long shelf life is because it has no ethanol in it. Here in Mass. they add 10% ethanol to the fuel. The ethanol attracts moisture which eventually causes the fuel to "crack" and you end up with a layer of alcohol & water mix and a layer of gasoline.

 

[joesawer]

The avgas does nto have the oxidizers that the cheap swill that they call gas now has. The oxidizers cause the gas to go bad very quickly.
If you store the 100LL in an air tight container in a cool dark place, it will stay good for a very long time.

 

[husq2100]

Avgas is usually labeled 100LL. The LL stands for "low Lead." I don't think there's much lead in it compared to the auto gas from the old days, but then again. whatever there is, you are going to be breathing it as opposed to leaving it behind you as you drive down the road. I suppose you could choose to focus on the "low" part of the equation, but you might want to evaluate just what you think about the 'lead" portion. I'm sure there are more than a few toxicology studies on the matter.

Just my 2 cents.... what I want to know if when someone is going to bring Aspen to the US.

ive heard that current unleaded petrol is as harmfull if not more so than the old leaded but in different ways, one of the reasons the cats are run in cars. now what about all the garden care stuff, moto's etc.... are we killing ourselves?

any one heard stuff about unleaded?

Serg

 

[Lakeside53]

Guys.... the web is free to search for answers... as is AS..


The stability of AVGAS has nothing to do with the lack of alcohol... It's due to the compounds selected and blended into the gas. In a post a year or two back on AS Bwalker explained the process.


Here's a snip I found on the web:


Aviation Gasoline Notes

Content
Aviation gasoline, avgas, is required to be an all hydrocarbon product. That is, its components must be chemicals that contain only carbon and hydrogen atoms. The use of oxygenated, chemicals that include oxygen atoms, compounds such as alcohols or ethers, is not permitted. Only a few select additives are permitted and their use is strictly controlled and limited. The primary ingredient in avgas is isooctane. This is a special component produced in the refining process by specialized equipment. Small amounts of isopentane and aromatic (ring) compounds are also used. The isopentane allows the correct volatility to be achieved in the final fuel blend. Aromatics are used to improve the rich mixture ratings. However, these aromatics must be limited to achieve other specifications. Grade 80 avgas may also contain straight-run gasoline but this component's lower octane rating makes it unsuitable for higher octane blends. Approved additives include alkyl-lead anti-knock additives. Other additives are also used to then control lead deposit formation. Color dyes are required in most grades for safety identification. Another common, and required, additive includes oxidation inhibitors to improve storage stability and inhibit gum formation. Theses anti-oxidant additives also help prevent lead compound precipitation (separation). Other additives such as corrosion inhibitors, fuel system icing inhibitor and static dissipator additives may also be included by agreement with the user, by the military or by some foreign specifications. All other additives are forbidden.

Physical and Content Specifications
The density and heat of combustion of aviation gasoline is specified. However, other specification, such as distillation range, greatly limit any variability in these measurements. The freezing point of the gasoline is specified to prevent the formation of solid hydrocarbons during prolonged cold soak at altitude. The formation of solids would of course jeopardize fuel flow and prevent full fuel availability. Avgas must also be stable in storage and under a variety of conditions. A primary form of deterioration is the formation of "gum" through oxidation and polymerization of fuel molecules. These can deposit on fuel system components and cause serious problems. Therefore gum formation is strictly limited in the specifications. The addition of anti-oxidants is required and results in good to excellent storage stability. The sulfur content of avgas is limited to a very small amount. This is needed because sulfur can cause a deterioration in the anti-knock performance of the lead additive. Sulfur also contributes to corrosion of fuel system and engine components. Fuel corrosiveness is tested by a cooper strip corrosion test. Avgas is also tested for water reaction. In this test samples of fuel and water are mixed and resulting changes are noted. This is used to detect the presence of high octane but water soluble components such as alcohols in the fuel. These are not permitted and can be detected by both volume change and phase separation in the test sample


And there is much more to read - http://purvisbros.com/afi/

 

[MuleyJ]

Unfortunately most on here are 20-30 somethings too young to remember, too easily brainwashed, and too indolent to research the use of tetraethyl-lead in automobiles.

Use the gas. It's good stuff.

I suppose those of us that do fit the described age category could assume that those of your age category must be too contumacious and on the verge of dementia to comprehend modern technology, therefore must be dictating to your grandchildren in order to post here. Rather, some of us are using this resource to learn from the experiences of individuals such as yourself. Though posts suchlike yours frequently cause me to wonder why.

 

[skid row]

I thinking about trying AV 100LL. Sounds like alot of you guys are using it. What does this fuel cost per gallon?