tree butchers LLC

[Raymond]

People are weird and stubborn. They think if you trim off all the vertical limbs they're good to go. The one hanging down in their face in the last ice storm.

Could I of done it better? YEP! But the person holding the check book gets to call the plays.

I'll do about anything they want, if I can't change their minds.

Except top an oak tree. I've walked away from jobs if they wanted an oak tree topped and wouldn't listen to me.

 

[ozzy42]

What if they asked you to top their trees?

That was real good of you ,modifying my text with the big bold letters and all.The only word in bold in my post was THEY,THE CUSTOMER,and so I will answer you last question,and see what you do with it this time.

WELL THEN A TOPPING I WILL GO

 

[treeseer]

Thos trees are now a much higher risk of breaking or toppling in a storm. more topheavy, decay will come in on those big wounds, etc.

When the customer is dead wrong then when we follow that for the $ we r horz, and open to future liability when hacked trees fail.

 

[Bermie]

When a customer asks me to top a tree...very common language here, I will say hmmm, ok, and then proceed to reduce it to branches capable of assuming the terminal role, leaving a taper from parent branch to twig, placing my cuts at suitable branch unions, create viewing avenues through the canopy

Voila one 'topped tree'...why beat 'em, turn the vernacular into a description for good work. It doesn't always work but I have gotten away with the 'subterfuge' on occasion!

I'm on to round three with one set of trees, reduced and thinned every two years, and when he phones, its "come and top my trees again will you." ( a fast growing species right on the coast necessary as a wind break)

 

[Raymond]

Thos trees are now a much higher risk of breaking or toppling in a storm. more topheavy, decay will come in on those big wounds, etc.

When the customer is dead wrong then when we follow that for the $ we r horz, and open to future liability when hacked trees fail.

So if they have their minds set on what they want and it can't be changed you walk away and go back home and get on the computer because you have nothing to do?

I get alot of jobs were the customer wasn't happy with the tree guy that gave them an estimate earlier or the day before. Said the guy didn't listen to what they wanted so that's why I'm there.

I explain all of what your talking about and give them options. The bottom line for businesses is the customer is always right. And if they ain't, they're the ones paying so what do we do?

You care about their trees more than putting food on your table?

 

[treemandan]

I've been a member on this site since 2002... does anyone remember the days when guys that posted comments like "what's wrong with that" or "give the customer what they want and cash the check", would have been run off, chewed up and spit out in 15 minutes?... That kind of attitude wasn't tolerated and no one would buck the group conscensus and want to come back for more... This thread is a true testement to just how low the level of awareness and competency at this site has become...

Now I know the company that pruned these maples and I just had to try to "fix" a beatiful 40"+ dbh red oak that they lion's tailed. When I used the term "lions tail", the customer said "that's a self explanatory description", looking up at the tree. She was a teacher in medical school, highly educated and vowed to write them a strong letter and tell all her neighbors. She didn't ask for her tree to be butchered. That is just what they do.



The good old days Huh? Well there is only so much a guy can do. Rick? Yeah, well, he seems to piss alot of people off around here. Sure he will take it down cheap... cheaper than you or me.
I thought about getting a job there to see what is up, not only that but its like he is the only one with any work. I wonder what he pays. Everybody around here is getting annoyed with him and his armys of tree jugernauts. I only imagine they are some very underpaid tree jugernauts but then what is a tree jugernaut supposed to do?

 

[Raymond]

it not about pride its about doing whats best for the tree and any future occupants of the property. If a tree is so close to the house that it must be topped to be safe then it should be removed.

Oh we give them that option too.

 

[Burvol]

You should continue your proffesionalism here, and in the field, not gut a counterpart on-line.

I have cut timber with some real hacks that were a joke, but I felt no need to raise an issue; it was evident, and when it came time to lay people off they were the ones to go down the road.

It seems you do good work, and I have read your posts and they seem to all be good, but this is a little on the "whinning" side.

Nobody wants to hear the sad song. Plus you just flat out call him out! Did you call him at his personal number recently and gut him???

 

[treemandan]

Hey its not so bad, I didn't hear anything about spike marks. Now I am dyin. Wouldn't surprise me if that is what they did over at Rick's . Now , Rick, I didn't say nothing, Murphy is the one who out and out called you and your crews butchers. :hmm3grin2orange:

Its one thing when the Ho wants it, its another when a company owner turns his bands of butchers loose. You can't say **** to me, just tell me where to point my saw,if you are certified or not and how you are planning to pay me. I would prefer if we not llok to much like idiots but if that is what you want don't bother mentioning my name.

I did tell a lady yesterday I wouldn't reduce the azaleas by half. "Not a good idea " , I said. And I never was a fan of the lion tail... cept on lions.

 

[treemandan]

You should continue your proffesionalism here, and in the field, not gut a counterpart on-line.

I have cut timber with some real hacks that were a joke, but I felt no need to raise an issue; it was evident, and when it came time to lay people off they were the ones to go down the road.

It seems you do good work, and I have read your posts and they seem to all be good, but this is a little on the "whinning" side.

Nobody wants to hear the sad song. Plus you just flat out call him out! Did you call him at his personal number recently and gut him???

Personally, I would like to meet Rick.

 

[Bermie]

Weather must be bad everywhere, look at all this **** chat in the middle of the morning...

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

:deadhorse: Damn hacks!!!!!

 

[Raymond]

Forgive me but I'm a little slow.
RickyTree of A.S. is the one who had that polesaw job?

 

[Raymond]

:deadhorse: Damn hacks!!!!!

If you wanna pull your name from my friends list I'll understand.

 

[Rftreeman]

I may be wrong but....I think part of the problem is this here.

I lost a job to him in my own neighborhood a couple years ago...

 

[murphy4trees]

No...
the problem here is lack of knowledge and care for arboriculture. We need to achoeve a critical mass of consciousness in the industry to stop improper pruning practices (amongst other things).

As far as Rick goes... He is universally hated by the local arborists around here for underbidding large tree removals and driving down pricing pretty much single handedly... I have heard at least one other tree guy say "I hope he dies" and Billy Neff at Main Line Mower, the local stihl dealer told me that he has bullet proof glass in his car and he has recieved death threats.

That is not my way... I AM a believer in the free market. If he can run a business and do the work cheaper, then good for him. This is America... That is what you are supposed to do. He has a helicopter, and bought Bret Myers' (phillies pitcher) Hummer for his estimator to drive around in looking at work. These things mean nothing to me.

BUT when he hacks pruning work on every job I see. When all he does to prune trees is to cut off the lower limbs with flush cuts, then I want the world to know about it. Its unimaginable to me that a company with all those resources is still making flush cuts, lion's tailing and elevating on every job I see. It's like they must have been trained in how not to prune a tree.

And I AM not afraid of his prices. I can often do the job better without a crane and 75' bucket. I underbid him a couple years ago when a customer had gotten a price from him for a bunch of backyard removals. I put the trees on the ground with one cut, when he was going to use the crane. I did over $100/man/hour that day. That is how I get my jollies.... Using skill and knowledge to get work done, faster, easier, better and safer than the next guy.

Now if we could all agree that that is what we are here to learn and share with each other, how to develop our skill and knowledge to improve our business and profitability, then we'd be getting somewhere, instead of arguing about whether its good to do hack work or not... That is a waste of my time and energy and Ihave just about had it with the level of incompetence on this site.

 

[Raymond]

No...
the problem here is lack of knowledge and care for arboriculture. We need to achoeve a critical mass of consciousness in the industry to stop improper pruning practices (amongst other things).

As far as Rick goes... He is universally hated by the local arborists around here for underbidding large tree removals and driving down pricing pretty much single handedly... I have heard at least one other tree guy say "I hope he dies" and Billy Neff at Main Line Mower, the local stihl dealer told me that he has bullet proof glass in his car and he has recieved death threats.

That is not my way... I AM a believer in the free market. If he can run a business and do the work cheaper, then good for him. This is America... That is what you are supposed to do. He has a helicopter, and bought Bret Myers' (phillies pitcher) Hummer for his estimator to drive around in looking at work. These things mean nothing to me.

BUT when he hacks pruning work on every job I see. When all he does to prune trees is to cut off the lower limbs with flush cuts, then I want the world to know about it. Its unimaginable to me that a company with all those resources is still making flush cuts, lion's tailing and elevating on every job I see. It's like they must have been trained in how not to prune a tree.

And I AM not afraid of his prices. I can often do the job better without a crane and 75' bucket. I underbid him a couple years ago when a customer had gotten a price from him for a bunch of backyard removals. I put the trees on the ground with one cut, when he was going to use the crane. I did over $100/man/hour that day. That is how I get my jollies.... Using skill and knowledge to get work done, faster, easier, better and safer than the next guy.

Now if we could all agree that that is what we are here to learn and share with each other, how to develop our skill and knowledge to improve our business and profitability, then we'd be getting somewhere, instead of arguing about whether its good to do hack work or not... That is a waste of my time and energy and Ihave just about had it with the level of incompetence on this site.

If we all had a hottie wife yoga instructors supporting us, we
could walk away from customers that would not listen to reason too.

 

[treemandan]

No...
the problem here is lack of knowledge and care for arboriculture. We need to achoeve a critical mass of consciousness in the industry to stop improper pruning practices (amongst other things).

As far as Rick goes... He is universally hated by the local arborists around here for underbidding large tree removals and driving down pricing pretty much single handedly... I have heard at least one other tree guy say "I hope he dies" and Billy Neff at Main Line Mower, the local stihl dealer told me that he has bullet proof glass in his car and he has recieved death threats.

That is not my way... I AM a believer in the free market. If he can run a business and do the work cheaper, then good for him. This is America... That is what you are supposed to do. He has a helicopter, and bought Bret Myers' (phillies pitcher) Hummer for his estimator to drive around in looking at work. These things mean nothing to me.

BUT when he hacks pruning work on every job I see. When all he does to prune trees is to cut off the lower limbs with flush cuts, then I want the world to know about it. Its unimaginable to me that a company with all those resources is still making flush cuts, lion's tailing and elevating on every job I see. It's like they must have been trained in how not to prune a tree.

And I AM not afraid of his prices. I can often do the job better without a crane and 75' bucket. I underbid him a couple years ago when a customer had gotten a price from him for a bunch of backyard removals. I put the trees on the ground with one cut, when he was going to use the crane. I did over $100/man/hour that day. That is how I get my jollies.... Using skill and knowledge to get work done, faster, easier, better and safer than the next guy.

Now if we could all agree that that is what we are here to learn and share with each other, how to develop our skill and knowledge to improve our business and profitability, then we'd be getting somewhere, instead of arguing about whether its good to do hack work or not... That is a waste of my time and energy and Ihave just about had it with the level of incompetence on this site.

The day I drove off with the gas nozzle still in the car I had walked over to John Westerman beforehand and asked how he was. He just flew into a ten minute rant about Rick right off the bat. Left me kinda dazed.

 

[treemandan]

Weather must be bad everywhere, look at all this **** chat in the middle of the morning...

Rick stole all the tree work.

 

[tree md]

I haven't flat out walked away from a job but I have lost jobs because I wouldn't top a tree. I have almost always been able to talk the client out of topping after explaining to them why it's not good to do so. However, when they have their mind set on topping I just give them an estimate for crown reduction and dead wood and leave it up to them whether they call me or not. I've driven by and seen trees topped after I have advised against it. What are you going to do, it is their tree. I'll not top one though because I don't want to put my name on that kind of work. I think it will do more harm to your overall business in the long run than any benefit from a quick dollar. I talked a customer into a removal yesterday instead of basically topping the tree. The tree was storm damaged with every limb destroyed except for one lateral and there was a 3 foot tear where a main leader had peeled from ice damage. Had to do some talking to convince him but reason finally won the day. I understand wanting to save a tree but why do they want to leave the totem poles standing?

I hate seeing the flush cuts too. One of the board members at the condo complex I take care of thought they would save some money after we had done the first phase of pruning after the ice storm. He told the landscapers to do the heeling cuts on the trees after we had mitigated the hazards. The landscaper flush cut one nice oak in the front and the president of the HOA stopped him. I came out and met with a few members of the board and the landscaper. I called him right there in front of the board members on making the flush cuts and explained that those cuts would never heal. Needless to say that was the end of his pruning endeavors there.