Modders beware!!!

[spacemule]

Ghandi and Rosa Parks did no t hold your position, thankfully neither does anyone else

You're misunderstanding what I posted. Let me highlight what you're missing:

Saying that Ignoring the law is not moral is not the same thing as saying a law is moral. Regardless of whether the law is a moral standard, your treatment of it is a moral characteristic. If you choose to ignore laws simply because you don't want to follow them, not for any ethical reason, you are not a moral person. It really is that simple.

And I contest that no one shares my opinion. What do you make of the phrase "law abiding citizen?"

 

[Banacanin]

Hey, allmost the lawyer, pass the bar then give advice too anyone who wants some jail time.

I wish I could have reped you for that. This fella don't know good attention from bad

 

[J.W Younger]

I wish I could have reped you for that. This fella don't know good attention from bad

dont worry bout rep just so people know not everyone living in ar has ther head up ther ass.
the donkey likes too make waves and get attention because he has no life

 

[ShoerFast]

Just sharing a little love from the EPA.....


Stock

1966 Ford mustang, 225 HP 13-16 seconds on the 1/4, 20 - 27 hwy MPG

2009 Ford Mustang 210 HP 13-16 seconds on the 1/4, 17 -26 hwy MPG

43 years and they did nothing for us.

 

[THALL10326]

I would guess they'll send four-footed pack animals around to spy on us.:greenchainsaw:



Mr. HE

Maybe this is why Stihl is keeping all its dealers informed and up to date. I'm positive this is why they don't try to sneak around the EPA. MTD tried and wound up paying 7 million dollars. Have a look see.


Overview:
On April 24, 2008, the United States announced a settlement with Jenn Feng Industrial Co., Ltd. (Jenn Feng), McCulloch Corporation (McCulloch), MTD Products Inc (MTD), and MTD Southwest Inc (MTDSW), that will require the companies to pay a civil penalty of $2 million and spend about $5 million on environmental projects. The Consent Decree resolves violations of Title II of the Clean Air Act (Act) arising from the production and importation of about 200,000 chainsaws that exceeded emissions standards and that did not comply with the nonroad requirements of the Act.

Husqvarna was nailed a few years back for trimmers that were legal in all states except Calif. Somehow a batch of these trimmers found their way to the shelves of retailers in Calif. One was bought at a Sears and the customer took it home, opened the box and found a sticker on it that said "Not for sale in Calif". He made one phone call and Husqvarna wound up paying $280,000 in fines, not to EPA but to the state of Calif. Seems they have their own so called in state EPA air police. Now who wants to mod that mans chainsaw and risk that one phone call, not me...

Remember too that was in 2008. That will be nothing compare to the new regulations for 2010.

 

[ShoerFast]

You're misunderstanding what I posted. Let me highlight what you're missing:


And I contest that no one shares my opinion. What do you make of the phrase "law abiding citizen?"

Is it illegal to modify your own equipment?

 

[spacemule]

Just sharing a little love from the EPA.....


Stock

1966 Ford mustang, 225 HP 13-16 seconds on the 1/4, 20 - 27 hwy MPG

2009 Ford Mustang 210 HP 13-16 seconds on the 1/4, 17 -26 hwy MPG

43 years and they did nothing for us.

Where's the information on emissions numbers? Are they both the same type of transmission? Do they both have a/c and power steering? Are they both realistic fuel mileage estimates? (I'm calling bs on the 27 mpg figure)

Like it or not shoer, modern cars are a lot cleaner than their older counterparts.

 

[spacemule]

Is it illegal to modify your own equipment?

Would depend on the modification I would think. Thal is quoting regulations that apply specifically to retailers though.

 

[Paul001]

Well I think its good on their part to keep us informed. As far as opening theirselves up thats not really possible with EPA. They have to follow EPA guidelines at time of manufacture. Their units are all batch tested and reports from their labs are sent to EPA. If those test results don't meet EPA requirements that batch doesn't leave the factory until it does meet EPA requirements. That goes for all manufacturers. Fact is pure and simple whether any of us like it or not, EPA rules the roost.

Far as them discouraging the dealers not to modify saws thats with every maker for alot of reasons, not just EPA reasons. Big thing called liability. No one wants to be stuck with a lawsuit over some piddly non-sense in which the end user could use as an excuse as to why he feels after the accident he's due 5 million bucks or so. Ask any insurance company how they feel about altering chainsaws. You will be amazed as what they tell you..

Wanna tell em about cut off saws and circular saw blades

I still think that is the fastest way to lose a dealership.

 

[Paul001]

Would depend on the modification I would think. Thal is quoting regulations that apply specifically to retailers though.

Someone finally gets the fine print. And it was Rex of all people

 

[ShoerFast]

Where's the information on emissions numbers? Are they both the same type of transmission? Do they both have a/c and power steering? Are they both realistic fuel mileage estimates? (I'm calling bs on the 27 mpg figure)

Like it or not shoer, modern cars are a lot cleaner than their older counterparts.

Give or take on the estimates, you don't find it odd that after 43 years Mustangs are still running neck and neck?

Truth, I would take a stock 66 to the track before the 2009.

 

[spacemule]

Give or take on the estimates, you don't find it odd that after 43 years Mustangs are still running neck and neck?

Truth, I would take a stock 66 to the track before the 2009.

Interesting. I was reading a couple months ago that the base v-6 model '10 Camaro has more horsepower than the top of the line z28 from the early 80's.

 

[Banacanin]

You're misunderstanding what I posted. Let me highlight what you're missing:


And I contest that no one shares my opinion. What do you make of the phrase "law abiding citizen?"

I stand corrected

You are obviously of the opinion that the rule of law is divine right, specifically your divine right. To oppose the law, and modify a muffler, is to oppose the Monarch and God himself. Anyone who believes in any form of civil disobedience- anyone who takes a realist approach to law invites treachery and the devil into your imaginary kingdom where you stand and rule over who is moral and who is not.

Last week you ruled over who was crazy and who was sane, what are you going to lord over next week?

Go look at some of those law books you pretend to have, cram up on the following approaches to law:
1, moralist
2, realist
3, legalist
When you have, and you understand that we live in societies where all these approaches have there place and are independent of personal morality, ask the nurse for a blanket and get some rest. Most improtantly:
Quit pretending you are a practitioner or advocate

 

[THALL10326]

Wanna tell em about cut off saws and circular saw blades

I still think that is the fastest way to lose a dealership.

Ewwwwwwwwwwww lets not go there, yikes. Matter of fact one of my customers found out last week what a concrete saw will do to your face. He was lucky. He only has about a 5 inch scar across his cheek. I talked to him today and told him he was a lucky man, he still has his head up on his shoulders. The concrete saw is one bad beheading MOFO..

Your 100% right Paul. The fire companies bring those saws in with the wood cutting blades on them. When they get them back I hand them the saw in one hand and the wheel in the other. They laff but understand the position I'm in and don't mind. They put em back on themselves..

 

[pete029]

I mod everything I own and the government is not going to stop me.

 

[spacemule]

I stand corrected

You are obviously of the opinion that the rule of law is divine right, specifically your divine right. To oppose the law, and modify a muffler, is to oppose the Monarch and God himself. Anyone who believes in any form of civil disobedience- anyone who takes a realist approach to law invites treachery and the devil into your imaginary kingdom where you stand and rule over who is moral and who is not.

Once again, that is nothing like what I said. Perhaps an illustration will clarify the matter.

If you ignore a speeding law because you want to speed, you are immoral.

If you ignore a law that says your race must give up a seat on a bus to other races and you ignore that law because that law violates your moral and ethical code, you are not immoral.

I was speaking specifically of the former (as I've clarified more than once) and not the latter.

 

[J.W Younger]

I mod everything I own and the government is not going to stop me.

dont bet on it pete. theres a new sherriff in town and it anit clevon little.

 

[ShoerFast]

Would depend on the modification I would think. Thal is quoting regulations that apply specifically to retailers though.

And I have never heard of a retailer getting spanked for taking off or disabling a cat-converter, air-pump, plug off an EGR-valve, advance the timing, re-adjust the air-fuel mixture or modify in any way factory CARB or EPA devices.

Or receive a fine for tampering with same.

Or installing parts that would otherwise effect the EPA's established emissions.

I am sure it's happened, but there are train-loads of tossed devices and hundreds of thousands of tons of modified parts sold and installed each year that side-steep EPA regulations, find it odd that the EPA seems so ineffective when you compare it to how huge the aftermarket performance parts business is?

 

[spacemule]

And I have never heard of a retailer getting spanked for taking off or disabling a cat-converter, air-pump, plug off an EGR-valve, advance the timing, re-adjust the air-fuel mixture or modify in any way factory CARB or EPA devices.

Or receive a fine for tampering with same.

Or installing parts that would otherwise effect the EPA's established emissions.

I am sure it's happened, but there are train-loads of tossed devices and hundreds of thousands of tons of modified parts sold and installed each year that side-steep EPA regulations, find it odd that the EPA seems so ineffective when you compare it to how huge the aftermarket performance parts business is?

The aftermarket parts business all say for offroad use only if it doesn't meet EPA. As far as how effective the catalytic converter rule is, I don't know. I do know that I've been in several shops having muffler work done that said in no uncertain terms that they would not remove a catalytic converter. I hadn't even asked them to.

 

[Moss Man]

Keep it low profile and you'll have very little to worry about.