A cyber pub.... what's on tap?
Saw modifications vs. Stock saws.
- Thread starter weimedog
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I may not always offer accurate and/or current information, but I always try to be at least in the top three to respond.
If I can't be accurate, at least I'm fast.
That's actually humorous when you look at your two screen names....
Roll Tide
Trolltide
Hey thats all that matters !
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Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Ain't that the truth! I've had a ball doing a few saw projects, it seems especially in the winter to stave off cabin fever. But at this point I've got more saws than I need or can use regularly, especially in the 40cc class. I have one minor project to turn my smallest saw into something more usable once the parts get here, and then I'm stopping for a time. Then some of my saws are getting fuel drained and prepped for longer term storage, as they just are not getting the use.
This whole saw modification thing is something I had no inkling of when I found AS while trying to diagnose my old McCinderblock. It's been a lot of fun to do, and kept me entertained figuring it out (to the limited extent I have), but most people would (and do) find it absurd. It's about the reaction you'd get if you told people you modify electric drills for a hobby, or maybe souping up kitchen mixers.
old-cat
Fir Man
This is hilarious and TRUE!
cuttinties
ArboristSite Guru
Wait until someone asks you what you do for fun and you reply "I race chainsaws". The look is priceless and it's hard not to cry when you hear someone ask "but how do you ride them?"
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
"You have to use a very special saddle...."
shorthunter
ArboristSite Guru
When I tell someone that I am going to port a saw that they sold me, they usually think that means I am going to drill holes in the muffler
There is just something special about a properly modified saw, its personality changes in a way that is hard to ignore. BE WARNED....l know first hand, other perfectly acceptable saws will be put aside and not used. All of a sudden what was a good runnig pro grade saw that once satisfied your needs and put a smile on your dile will become a useless turd overnight that takes back seat to a ported saw of less displacement. l was really happy with my stock saws at one time.....l then made the big mistake of letting Snelling build me a MS261, now my 550xp(great saw) just does not really get used. And why would l use my 555 when it won't keep up, once again it too gets put aside. ln stock form a 261 will hold 8-9.5K in the cut, ported its 10.5-12.5K! lt behaves like a well tuned quad port 70cc saw! So think about it first and understand what your getting into.
KG441c
Keith
I got that today! Was talkin with a guy about guns and he said guns was his hobby also and I said my favorite pasttime is saws. He looked at me like huh and said CHAINSAWS???!!! Lol
shorthunter
ArboristSite Guru
You ride them just like you start them, with the bar and chain between your legs
cuttinties
ArboristSite Guru
Speed is an addiction. Ported saw feels great. Ported saw with a good loop of chain is a dream. But wait until you get bored with round filed and start trying gain .10ths of a second with chain. The affliction goes beyond the work saw. It leads to $14 files and entry fees, cold starts and nitromethane. It's all about the yank push pull push. That's what this ported saw affliction leads to. Take 2 work saws from 2 different guys and .15ths isn't a big enough difference for most to notice. But in cold starts down up down that's the difference between a Jerry Gringas world record and 4th place. Win today and someone will build something faster tomorrow.
zogger
Tree Freak
A couple of points...
first, on the grand scales of things in the logging world, modded saws are an anomaly not main stream
Second we make a lot of claims as to why we should have them and also evangelize to others without real data to support the premise
For most of us...me included.. it doesn't matter because we will never put enough time on those saws to wear them out anyway.
Sub set of that argument is many of us have multiple saws. I ran into this when I was trying to test and quantify the value of some aftermarket parts.
I got my AM saws to run...did a job or two, then put them on the shelve and went to the next project! NOW I put them in the hands of a couple
of logging outfits and let them run them for a period of time.... a much better evaluation. I'm getting real feed back that makes sense now.
Who comes up with the numbers to justify the expense of these modifications? It doesn't matter to the typical enthusiast I understand...
Where is the endurance testing as the OEM's do to there products?
Just want to point that out. And eventually there will be the "Pro Circuit" of chainsaw mods out there and that will change the game.
For now....its enthusiasts who are supporting the chainsaw modification business. not the logging companies. And as I said earlier, some professionals are also enthusiasts....
Hopefully this thread will get folks to start trying to quantify and share their experiences by trying to argue the case for modified saws based on their time with those saws.... I'm looking to justify my hobby same as you. SO I argue against hoping more will argue for... with data. but when I put my business hat on and evaluate as I did with my excavation business years ago... they don't make sense. Not yet. Convince me I'm wrong please.have to go for a while...
Other factors....liability, reliability, supportability.
I think a case could be made that with some saws, not all but some, modding them gets them back to what stock saws were in years past. Right off the bat, just muff mods to choked up and cat installed mufflers, and screw limited carbs that come designed to not really let the saws perform. That doesn't touch ports and size and shape and timing, but just mufflers and carbs can sometimes really benefit from some small but important mods.
weedkilla
Ain't no guru of nuthin'
Absolutely.
Then set squish.
Then maybe just clean up the ports.
Better check the factory timing numbers.
Can probably square up the ports a bit.
Maybe check to see if any timing numbers have been posted on Arboristsite and see what others have done.
Oh look.... The jug is in the lathe and a right angle hand piece is in the mail....
That other saw is getting a bit old, might aswell replace it, makes sense to order a brand new one ported from Terry, Randy or Brad. They do get a bit more than me from a saw.
Ok. Everything's ported, the first goes at porting myself are sold. Project saws are accumulating under the bench. Even a frankensaw project.
Sigh.
Rx7man
Cattle Rubbing Post
a lot of good points have been made here.. on why companies use stock saws while individuals use modded ones.. I spoke to my neighbor who was falling for 50 days straight WAY up north, he was running a 441 I think, and maybe a 660 as well.. runs 40:1, says he gets 40 minutes hard cutting time out of a tank, all important points for someone making a living with it.. when a chain gets rocked too badly even if it's got lots of life left it gets tossed into the "I'll get to it someday" pile.
For myself with my Husky 65's, I have 4 of them now, from stock to wild porting jobs.. I kept one stock so I can go back to it and feel what it's like.. I will NEVER pick that saw up for any cutting EVER again.. the mild ported ones work well, have good torque in the cut, not really screamers but they're nice to run... the 'wild' one (BIG durations, seriously hacked up jug to make room for piston window ports, carb mods, muffler mods) has lost some of it's grunt, but it just sounds SO ALIVE.. and that lovely cackle at idle as it walks around doesn't hurt either.
I did up a Jonsered 920 super for a friend, it's a big saw, granted, but when he put it into some big poplar trees with a 24" bar he said he could lean into it just as hard as he wanted and it just wouldn't bog.. he loves it now.
As for fuel consumption.. for a guy who's not running a saw all that much, a 25% increase over 5 gallons a year really doesn't matter, for a guy using it 8 hours every day, it does add up to a significant cost, though if he has to run a 20cc bigger saw to get the performance, he's probably losing out some there too. For me, I like having 80-90cc performance on a 65cc saw, and I think that's a big part of the reason a lot of people want more power from the smaller saws.. less weight to carry means you're less tired... I'm also a skinny bastard at 6' and 140 lbs soaking wet, it matters more to me than to a guy who's 6'4" and 280.
Yes, it totally is an addiction... I started with rotary engines (What I wouldn't give for an NSU saw!!), then went into Cummins diesels, then started bumping power up on the farm tractors, and now it's saws.
I once built a time bomb Briggs powered lawnmower.. it was always a MISERY to start, never had more than 50 PSI compression.. so I milled the head and made valve pockets in it, split the head gasket in half and siliconed it on.. still no dice on improving the compression much, then I found out the intake lobe of the cam closed 99% of the way, but hung up until like 40* BTDC, so I filed the valve until it sat right, and suddenly I had compression... to say the least! 185 PSI on a briggs meant the first thing that happened is the pull cord broke, it did run a whole lot better though, but it was totally eating out the bottom end.. after an hour the oil was gray with aluminum from the journals.. in the end we got a new mower and I tossed this one before it threw the rod out the side.. I knew that was coming down the pike.
For myself with my Husky 65's, I have 4 of them now, from stock to wild porting jobs.. I kept one stock so I can go back to it and feel what it's like.. I will NEVER pick that saw up for any cutting EVER again.. the mild ported ones work well, have good torque in the cut, not really screamers but they're nice to run... the 'wild' one (BIG durations, seriously hacked up jug to make room for piston window ports, carb mods, muffler mods) has lost some of it's grunt, but it just sounds SO ALIVE.. and that lovely cackle at idle as it walks around doesn't hurt either.
I did up a Jonsered 920 super for a friend, it's a big saw, granted, but when he put it into some big poplar trees with a 24" bar he said he could lean into it just as hard as he wanted and it just wouldn't bog.. he loves it now.
As for fuel consumption.. for a guy who's not running a saw all that much, a 25% increase over 5 gallons a year really doesn't matter, for a guy using it 8 hours every day, it does add up to a significant cost, though if he has to run a 20cc bigger saw to get the performance, he's probably losing out some there too. For me, I like having 80-90cc performance on a 65cc saw, and I think that's a big part of the reason a lot of people want more power from the smaller saws.. less weight to carry means you're less tired... I'm also a skinny bastard at 6' and 140 lbs soaking wet, it matters more to me than to a guy who's 6'4" and 280.
Yes, it totally is an addiction... I started with rotary engines (What I wouldn't give for an NSU saw!!), then went into Cummins diesels, then started bumping power up on the farm tractors, and now it's saws.
I once built a time bomb Briggs powered lawnmower.. it was always a MISERY to start, never had more than 50 PSI compression.. so I milled the head and made valve pockets in it, split the head gasket in half and siliconed it on.. still no dice on improving the compression much, then I found out the intake lobe of the cam closed 99% of the way, but hung up until like 40* BTDC, so I filed the valve until it sat right, and suddenly I had compression... to say the least! 185 PSI on a briggs meant the first thing that happened is the pull cord broke, it did run a whole lot better though, but it was totally eating out the bottom end.. after an hour the oil was gray with aluminum from the journals.. in the end we got a new mower and I tossed this one before it threw the rod out the side.. I knew that was coming down the pike.
For what I typically use a saw for, firewood, I don't need anything that I would consider high power. Most of what I cut can be taken care of w/ my Stihl 026. I've opened it's muffler up a bit, nothing extreme. Performance gains noticeable w/o becoming too obnoxious. If I ever decide to re-ring the ole girl I'll probably put the dremel to work on some of the internals in an effort to improve respiration. The back isn't getting 1-day younger and I can appreciate more power in a smaller package. As a home saw owner I'm conflicted in porting a brand new saw but with my construction background fully understand that TIME is the #1 expense in most jobs. Production and performance just about says it all and if that equals more cords cut then that's more cash-in-hand.
I would say ported saws are mostly limited to fallers, and probably a small portion of them.
Tree services have liability issues, heck one company I worked for only the owner and climber ran the saws. He said the insurance required a chain saw safety course and all the company saws needed to be serviced and repaired by a licensed dealer.
For me I'm just a gear head and everything needs more power.
Tree services have liability issues, heck one company I worked for only the owner and climber ran the saws. He said the insurance required a chain saw safety course and all the company saws needed to be serviced and repaired by a licensed dealer.
For me I'm just a gear head and everything needs more power.
