Drop starting?
- Thread starter Old2stroke
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Stihl offers a very nice Elasto-Start for several of their professional saws. It was designed to be destroyed by drop starting. I've repaired or replaced about a dozen of them. One guy whose gone thorugh three on his MS 660 says that he never uses the decomp valve.
Canyon Angler
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I find it easier to drop-start my 660 (it has no decomp) than to do it with my foot. There's a trick -- first you full-choke it, and just pull it over easy once or twice to pull some gas into the cylinder. Then pull the rope gently until you're getting compression with the piston approaching TDC. Then rewind the starter, engage the pawls and keep some tension on the rope, then simultaneously throw the saw downward with left arm and pull on cord with right arm. That way, two arms are doing the work that only one arm would be doing the other way (and with the added help of gravity).
Not "chauvinism," just common sense. If you think starting a 50 cc chainsaw is a bear, try a 30 or 40hp outboard 2T motor.
I love the outerwear stuff.
I teach chainsaw safety class for my institution and I don't teach drop starting.
The classes mostly have inexperienced young people in them so bending down to start a 50-60cc saw really isn't an issue. The "leg lock" method is also taught.(fyi dont put any part of a chainsaw in your baby maker area).
Now that being said I do drop start some of my saws , based on terrain and as noted your dam boot ain't gonna fit in that handle.
I'm 5'8" so I'm super aware of drop starting anything longer then a 28" bar , I absolutely HATE it the chain even touches dirt and having a saw bar combination taller than me is a good opportunity for that to happen.
I love my old mag saws and some just never came with brakes so I accept the dangers of operating them as what it is , the one thing I am not going to do is trade my freedom for the perceived fear that something bad might happen and dont kid myself that only the "lucky" get to be old.
The classes mostly have inexperienced young people in them so bending down to start a 50-60cc saw really isn't an issue. The "leg lock" method is also taught.(fyi dont put any part of a chainsaw in your baby maker area).
Now that being said I do drop start some of my saws , based on terrain and as noted your dam boot ain't gonna fit in that handle.
I'm 5'8" so I'm super aware of drop starting anything longer then a 28" bar , I absolutely HATE it the chain even touches dirt and having a saw bar combination taller than me is a good opportunity for that to happen.
I love my old mag saws and some just never came with brakes so I accept the dangers of operating them as what it is , the one thing I am not going to do is trade my freedom for the perceived fear that something bad might happen and dont kid myself that only the "lucky" get to be old.
deye223
Addicted to ArboristSite
I respectfully disagree luck has nothing to do with .
In that order, no and yes. I am unlucky and have not been hurt or heard of anyone getting hurt while drop starting a saw. Actually, I know two guys who’ve gotten hurt drop starting a saw, but that was when the busted recoil pulley would lock up the starter and try to dislocate their shoulder. As for the intelligence part, no, just common sense is needed.
windthrown
361 Junkie
This topic comes up all the time here. For whatever reason. I have rarely started a saw any other way than drop starting. I also rarely start a saw with the chain brake on. As in; I learned with saws that did not have chain brakes, and no one I ever knew started saws any other way. I always assume that the chain brake is not on, regardless of the saw. Some of my saws do not have them. It is also safer, from an engioneering design standpoint to drop start them. Yeah yeah, scream and rant about safety and OSHA and all the BS about it out there. I have NEVER worked with any falling crew, tree butcher crew, land clearing, construction or farming crew that did anything other than drop start saws. That is what, over 40 years now? Even the engineers I met from Stihl drop started the demo saws. I asked them about it, and they said that they were designed to be started that way. But they had to comply with various regulations and say to foot or leg start them. They did not do that in any demos that I was at. Nor have any Stihl or Husky or Dolmar dealers that I have met or been to. End of story. Believe what you will though. I believe that bending over and starting a saw completely off balance, or locking a saw in your legs somehow to start them is a HAZARD. It is also far more of a strain to do that. OSHA be damned. I do not give a rat's ass. I have all my limbs and fingers and I have owned and run well over 100 different saws in my life in hundreds of different situations. Huskies, Macs, Stihl, Oly, Jred, Homelites and Echos. And a few others that I have forgotten.
I also do not see how an Easy Start handle will fail any faster drop starting a saw. I have a drawer full of Easy Start handles that I got at a GTG one year and other than replacing solid handles with them, I have never had to replace one. I start all saws left handed... just works way better. Always has. Of course I also have yellow bars and I only use non safety chain. Must me a lethal combination all this according to OSHA, but I am still alive. Amazing! Not... just common sense. And I am an engineer. So please spare me some BS physics about how unsafe drop starting is.
I also do not see how an Easy Start handle will fail any faster drop starting a saw. I have a drawer full of Easy Start handles that I got at a GTG one year and other than replacing solid handles with them, I have never had to replace one. I start all saws left handed... just works way better. Always has. Of course I also have yellow bars and I only use non safety chain. Must me a lethal combination all this according to OSHA, but I am still alive. Amazing! Not... just common sense. And I am an engineer. So please spare me some BS physics about how unsafe drop starting is.
I'd like to see your safety police start without
Drop starting a 220# 266xp
I'm liking the new generation Husqvarna pull rope handles
On the 372s and whatever
I retrofitted all my 30+ saws with high compression and no decomp with them
More comfortable to me than that stihl easy start whatever handles they use.
deye223
Addicted to ArboristSite
No such thing as common sense these days it's very uncommon hence I call it intelligence
Are we confusing Easy Start handles with the "quick start", "E-Z pull start" systems where there is a secondary spring in the rope drum that winds up and "aids" the rope pull to kick through compression? This is the system that is prone to damage when drop starting.
Same here 40 or more years of drop starting.
Well, you wrote the longest comment, so you must be right.
And of the 100,000+ members here, you must be the only engineer.
You probably know lots of people who drove cars without seat belts before 1965 and lived, and probably a few that still refuse to wear them today to prove what bad asses they are.
I have not died from ebola, and don't personally know anyone who has, but I still know that it is a HAZARD.
Safety is about risk, and statistics, and epidemiology (but if 'physics' is BS, you're not gonna like that word); that's what I tried to summarize as 'luck', in a post, above - the chance or likelihood that it will happen to you.
'Common sense', to me, includes paying attention to risk, and taking reasonable steps to reduce it.
Philbert
Be intentional about life.
If, after an honest look at the data and other options, your considered opinion is that the way you've always done it is still the best option, rock on. Make sure that's an intentional decision, though. Not just "welp, I've always done it this way, so that's how I'm always going to do it." A rut is not a decision. Make a decision.
Yes, I'm going to continue drop starting. And wearing my seatbelt, not eating paint chips, and eating bacon a couple times a month.
If, after an honest look at the data and other options, your considered opinion is that the way you've always done it is still the best option, rock on. Make sure that's an intentional decision, though. Not just "welp, I've always done it this way, so that's how I'm always going to do it." A rut is not a decision. Make a decision.
Yes, I'm going to continue drop starting. And wearing my seatbelt, not eating paint chips, and eating bacon a couple times a month.
deye223
Addicted to ArboristSite
I look at it like this some people can freehand file a chain some people can't some people have a licence and can drive a car perfectly fine others have a licence yet shouldn't be anywhere near one so some people can drop start saw safely others should never attempt it just my opinion
That makes sense to me but the same people thant cant safely drop start a saw would be suspect to me as far as how skilled they are.
deye223
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm glad somebody has seen the point on trying to make I totally agree with your post
I see it every time i see a new guy.
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Which is kind of what I was trying to say back in post #32.
You do not have to use the search feature too hard to figure out some of those against the idea of this unsafe practice of the drop start, have a slightly more vested interest in the field of denying common sense and enforcing safety via written text.
