Is this safe to climb on?

[Nailsbeats]

Here's a close up :

Thanks Reach, now I have so many options I can't make a decision. lol

 

[jomoco]

This whole thread strikes me as dangerous for folks who make a living with razor sharp cutting tools.

I'm a firm believer in old school minimalist techniques and procedures, and they've served me very well for almost 35 years now.

The only venue in which any of these topics makes any sense to me would be in recreational climbing where sharp cutting tools are only used in an emergency.

That's why steel wire core lanyards were developed and are now widely used by chainsaw wielding treemen who value their lives and the well being of their family.

I hope that the topics being bandied about in this thread are recognized as dangerous by newbies that want to live a long productive life in this business.

These are just the opinions of a veteran climber happily suffering the ravages of old climbers disease.

Anyone using the systems being promoted in this thread better have perfect control of their cutting tools 100 percent of the time if they want to live very long in the tree biz IMHO.

Work safe!

jomoco

 

[safeT1st]

Semantics

I personally would never trust a shackle with a loctited pin ! If you must use a shackle lockwire it !

To present an overhand knot ( looks to me to be one) tied to a pin and ask this forum to identify it and then approve it is insulting .



First off, the shackle and loctited pin came stock from the store I bought the saddle at. Second, I never asked anyone to identify the knot, and I never ever approved it. If I did I wouldn't be asking about it, just wondering what other's opinions were. You seem to have a good view from your high horse. Hope this clears things up.

Nailsbeats , I realize my post came across to you as high handed . Sorry , but it was meant to . With all due respect to what you posted , it suggests a lack of knowledge in respect to knots and safe climbing practices . That it itself is not a bad thing but makes me shudder coming from an active climber .

You described not knowing what the knot was , freestyling it , suggest what it might be , provide pictures and ask what we all think . If that is not an invitation to id the knot in question then excuse me . If you are a professional as you state in post 41 ( whole new can of worms that one ) I would question your training and rope skills .

In regards to the shackle and pin ; because it can be bought does not make it safe imo . I question the practice of applying loctite to a threaded device which is intended to provide quick and easy dis-assembly , imo .

As far as the knot in question you personally approved it the moment you chose to climb with it , 3 times . I am being blunt because imo you really should think about your original post and how you chose to climb . If nothing else my responses may encourage you to do that . A post such as yours will surely stir up controversy and that is a good thing . Just found it alarming that an individual who seems to be so far into the game is seemingly lacking the most basic knowledge in some areas .

Check www.animatedknots.com for some interesting info .

I agree with Jamaco on this but the nature of the post demanded a response .

 

[reachtreeservi]

This whole thread strikes me as dangerous for folks who make a living with razor sharp cutting tools.

I'm a firm believer in old school minimalist techniques and procedures, and they've served me very well for almost 35 years now.

The only venue in which any of these topics makes any sense to me would be in recreational climbing where sharp cutting tools are only used in an emergency.

That's why steel wire core lanyards were developed and are now widely used by chainsaw wielding treemen who value their lives and the well being of their family.

I hope that the topics being bandied about in this thread are recognized as dangerous by newbies that want to live a long productive life in this business.

These are just the opinions of a veteran climber happily suffering the ravages of old climbers disease.

Anyone using the systems being promoted in this thread better have perfect control of their cutting tools 100 percent of the time if they want to live very long in the tree biz IMHO.

Work safe!

jomoco

I think that ether you don't understand what you are talking about, or you're full of crap.

The subject being discussed is rope bridges for saddles and ways to attach them. Which is totally different from the subject of wire core fliplines.

No one said anything against wirecores. I use one every time I climb.
And the only system I've read described is a spliced end for your climbing rope and a spliced eye to eye prussic tied in a Distel as a climbing hitch , and using a micro mouse pulley as a slack tender.
As in Overhead tie in point , connected to your middle dee or bridge.

Please enlighten the board in detail and explain what part of this system is unsafe.

Also discussed was using a tenex spliced eye to eye prussic tied in a Distel as a lanyard adjuster. For your wirecore.

Please explain why you find this objectionable.

And as far as using rope for a bridge materiel, this is the practice on the Butterfly 2, the dragonfly 2, the Glide , and the Tree Motion .
In short, it's almost an industry wide practice concerning advanced saddles.
About the only advanced saddle that doesn't use rope materiel for the bridge, use webbing materiel. Which cuts about as easily.
Using an eye to eye spliced rope as a bridge , only makes it safer trhan a knotted rope bridge.

Please give us your honest opinions as to why using advanced saddles, advanced eye to eye prussics and advanced hitches on your overhead TIP and lanyard are unsafe.

And lastly, Anyone using any system better have perfect control of their cutting tools 100 percent of the time if they want to live very long in the tree biz .
Does your old school system allow someone to have less than perfect control of their cutting tools a percentage of the time ?

 

[beowulf343]

I'm not a huge fan of bridge saddles and thus have never used them much. But i do have a couple questions from this thread.

Donny-kind of surprised to see you not tied into the clevis but pulled through and tied. Basically a stopper knot. Is this normal for you bridge users. Just curious as to why you did it this way. (maybe answered by my second question.)

Seeing grizzly spliced being mentioned as a bridge. Now how much does your ring slide around the bridge? Twelve inch bridge, couple inches both ends doubled up, will your ring slide over that bump even on tension or are you going to lose 4 inches of bridge?

 

[reachtreeservi]

A grizzly splice is about 2 5/8 in long. If you want 12 in. of travel, then order the bridge length about 17 in. long.
Or you might try positioning the bump side of the splice to the front or outside on the clevis. When you load the ring , it should slide from clevis to clevis.

It'd take a little experimenting, but it's do able.

 

[masterarbor]

i think jomoco meant for his posting to be in the free climb thread, where it wouldn't be so non-sequiter.:monkey:

 

[masterarbor]

I think that ether you don't understand what you are talking about, or you're full of crap.

The subject being discussed is rope bridges for saddles and ways to attach them. Which is totally different from the subject of wire core fliplines.

No one said anything against wirecores. I use one every time I climb.
And the only system I've read described is a spliced end for your climbing rope and a spliced eye to eye prussic tied in a Distel as a climbing hitch , and using a micro mouse pulley as a slack tender.
As in Overhead tie in point , connected to your middle dee or bridge.

Please enlighten the board in detail and explain what part of this system is unsafe.

Also discussed was using a tenex spliced eye to eye prussic tied in a Distel as a lanyard adjuster. For your wirecore.

Please explain why you find this objectionable.

And as far as using rope for a bridge materiel, this is the practice on the Butterfly 2, the dragonfly 2, the Glide , and the Tree Motion .
In short, it's almost an industry wide practice concerning advanced saddles.
About the only advanced saddle that doesn't use rope materiel for the bridge, use webbing materiel. Which cuts about as easily.
Using an eye to eye spliced rope as a bridge , only makes it safer trhan a knotted rope bridge.

Please give us your honest opinions as to why using advanced saddles, advanced eye to eye prussics and advanced hitches on your overhead TIP and lanyard are unsafe.

And lastly, Anyone using any system better have perfect control of their cutting tools 100 percent of the time if they want to live very long in the tree biz .
Does your old school system allow someone to have less than perfect control of their cutting tools a percentage of the time ?

it's true about the innovations- and i don't buy anything i can make.
ie prussiks, lanyards, ascenders etc. strong rope and good knots!
like manilla line and a tautline hitch for example.:jawdrop:

 

[Nailsbeats]

You belong in a line to buy a lottery ticket! LOL.

That's good material right there!

 

[046]

sure hope you dump that bridge rope where is belongs... in the trash.

keep on using that and odds will catch up sometime. don't want to read about you getting killed!!!

 

[Nailsbeats]

sure hope you dump that bridge rope where is belongs... in the trash.

keep on using that and odds will catch up sometime. don't want to read about you getting killed!!!

Yeah, I already took it off. I am woking on a new one with a buntline.

 

[jomoco]

I think that ether you don't understand what you are talking about, or you're full of crap.

The subject being discussed is rope bridges for saddles and ways to attach them. Which is totally different from the subject of wire core fliplines.

No one said anything against wirecores. I use one every time I climb.
And the only system I've read described is a spliced end for your climbing rope and a spliced eye to eye prussic tied in a Distel as a climbing hitch , and using a micro mouse pulley as a slack tender.
As in Overhead tie in point , connected to your middle dee or bridge.

Please enlighten the board in detail and explain what part of this system is unsafe.

Also discussed was using a tenex spliced eye to eye prussic tied in a Distel as a lanyard adjuster. For your wirecore.

Please explain why you find this objectionable.

And as far as using rope for a bridge materiel, this is the practice on the Butterfly 2, the dragonfly 2, the Glide , and the Tree Motion .
In short, it's almost an industry wide practice concerning advanced saddles.
About the only advanced saddle that doesn't use rope materiel for the bridge, use webbing materiel. Which cuts about as easily.
Using an eye to eye spliced rope as a bridge , only makes it safer trhan a knotted rope bridge.

Please give us your honest opinions as to why using advanced saddles, advanced eye to eye prussics and advanced hitches on your overhead TIP and lanyard are unsafe.

And lastly, Anyone using any system better have perfect control of their cutting tools 100 percent of the time if they want to live very long in the tree biz .
Does your old school system allow someone to have less than perfect control of their cutting tools a percentage of the time ?

I'm sure you're right on both counts, I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm full of crap for thinking that bridge saddles suck and are inherantly dangerous by design.

It's a wonder that I'm still alive being so dumb and all.

Good luck with your high tech rock climbing saddles guys, I'm sure those bridges on them are real tough stuff, just like I'm sure none of us ever make mistakes or cut stuff we're not supposed to.

Yeah you guys are way smarter than dumb old school buzzards like me.

Carry on with your high tech education thread here, don't mind me at all, I've been full of crap for over three decades now, anybody got any good laxatives?

jomoco

 

[reachtreeservi]

I'm sure you're right on both counts, I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm full of crap for thinking that bridge saddles suck and are inherantly dangerous by design.

It's a wonder that I'm still alive being so dumb and all.

Good luck with your high tech rock climbing saddles guys, I'm sure those bridges on them are real tough stuff, just like I'm sure none of us ever make mistakes or cut stuff we're not supposed to.

Yeah you guys are way smarter than dumb old school buzzards like me.

Carry on with your high tech education thread here, don't mind me at all, I've been full of crap for over three decades now, anybody got any good laxatives?

jomoco

Jomoco, As usual , you are incorrect on almost everything.
No one on this thread has been discussing rock climbing saddles.
Do you even read the post you are commenting on ?

You have to be tied to something, with something. And all those somethings can be cut with a chainsaw or a silky.
With varying degrees of difficulty depending on the somethings.

Old school, new school doesn't matter. You still need to avoid cutting yourself, your rigging and your equipment.

So what was your point?

Oh, but I totally agree with the rest of your post.

 

[treemandan]

Just curious, where do I belong if I climbed in it already?

Out of 9 lives you spent 10. There is no doubt in my mind God has a plan for you and that is why you are still here with us today. If you don't think this is true then why are you still alive?
Personally, I don't believe you climbed in that at all as it seems impossible. I think you posted it to get a rise.

 

[DonnyO]

Donny-kind of surprised to see you not tied into the clevis but pulled through and tied. Basically a stopper knot. Is this normal for you bridge users. Just curious as to why you did it this way. (maybe answered by my second question.)

Dude, believe you've read me for long enough to know I'm for real. I use it because it works. if you can give me a reason not to,,,, I'll stop...............

 

[Nailsbeats]

Here is an update on the Bridge. I cut a new (longer) rope and made one with double fisherman knots on both ends. I removed the shackles and tied right to the nylon loops in the saddle.

I have received advice to go with the double fishermans so that's what I tried on this one. Also, removing the shackles removes a potential point of failure in my mind, because of the screws. I would prefer to hear from those with experience in this type of thing, but of course I can't control who chimes in even if they have never seen this type of saddle.

I am wondering if some of you think that giving me advice on a bridge somehow makes you liable? If we are out of line here I would like to here from the moderators. I appreciate what I have learned from this site and don't want to be out of line. That being said, if you have a gripe with me that is fine, I am just shooting straight and will continue until told otherwise.

 

[impetus]

I see how you guys would like the bridge setup I guess for turning from side to side but I myself think a saddle ,2 carabiners, a life line with a eye in one end and a persik are all one needs. And for all you continuity cops out there ,A flip line and all safety gear required. Oh ya if you want the bridge setup then why didn't you get a saddle with a floating D ?

 

[treemandan]

Here is an update on the Bridge. I cut a new (longer) rope and made one with double fisherman knots on both ends. I removed the shackles and tied right to the nylon loops in the saddle.

I have received advice to go with the double fishermans so that's what I tried on this one. Also, removing the shackles removes a potential point of failure in my mind, because of the screws. I would prefer to hear from those with experience in this type of thing, but of course I can't control who chimes in even if they have never seen this type of saddle.

I am wondering if some of you think that giving me advice on a bridge somehow makes you liable? If we are out of line here I would like to here from the moderators. I appreciate what I have learned from this site and don't want to be out of line. That being said, if you have a gripe with me that is fine, I am just shooting straight and will continue until told otherwise.

Whew! That looks better. You have a point about the liability. Did you really climb on the original set-up you posted because it seems the knots would just come undone immediately? I don't like those shackles, good for me to see them gone. Notice I didn't tell you what to do either- liabilty.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Yea much better. You wouldnt use an overhand knot as your climbing knot would ya so same goes for your bridge.

Watch the rope on rope wear though, im not sure if it will damage your bridge/harness or not but something to keep an eye on.

 

[046]

not really... nothing to do with liability. just don't want to be responsible for someone getting killed over something that's posted here.

loads of newbies cruise AS. combine this with loads of jokers on AS who think nothing of posting something really dangerous just for grins.

take ALL information found on AS with buckets of salt. track down poster's past posts to determine quality. it's not that hard to do really..

if you are green enough to tie a single overhead for a life knot. You need to find a local pro to watch. also need a copy of Jeff Jebson's Tree Climbers Companion. Baileys has em.

and yes double fishman is a proper termination knot for a lifeline. triple fisherman is better yet.

here's a pic of a triple fisherman tied properly. note binding is for neatness only, although it does add strength.

I am wondering if some of you think that giving me advice on a bridge somehow makes you liable?