2 cycle gas mix shelf life

[Den69RS96]

When I buy gas first thing I do is add an ethanol treatment/stabalizer to it then mix the stihl ultra. I usually have a half gallon to a gallon left over from the fall and I use it in the spring with no problems.

This year I decided to winterized my equipment by draining out the pump gas,filling up with VP racing 50 to 1 premix I bought at the dealer. I ran the vp through my equipment for a few mins and then I drained it out and ran my saws out of gas. So far everything started up with no issues. The year prior I winterized by just draining the pump gas and running everything dry. Ended up having to clean the carb on my ms250 and replacing the carb on my km 110r trimmer.

 

[Whitespider]

I "winterize" all the 4-cycle stuff by adding STA-BIL to what I figure is the last 15 or so gallon of pump gas I buy for them in the fall (87 ethanol-free), use it as normal, and put them away with full fuel tanks... every one fired-up as normal, and always has for years.
The 2-cycle golf cart doesn't get anything special except a full fuel tank of pre-mix 87 ethanol-free... it fired right up and drove out'a the shed, same as every other year. The little 2-cycle snow thrower gets the same treatment in the spring when I'm done with it... just fill it up.
Some of the small 2-cycles like the chainsaw and leaf blower get used on-'n'-off year 'round, but if I don't think I'll be using it for a couple weeks I either fill them up (plumb full, no air space) or dump the fuel depending on mood... but don't ever "run" the carbs dry. Other small 2-cycles like the weed-whip just get the tank filled (plumb full, no air space) with pre-mix 91 ethanol-free after last use in the fall.

I never "add" chemicals to pre-mix... never‼
Any quality 2-cycle oil contains stabilizers and whatnot... there's no need for anything more. And, from what I've read on the subject, mixing different chemicals actually has the potential to do more harm than good. Most of the "super" fuel treatments are nothing but "snake-oil" anyway... gasoline stabilization is simply a chemical the reduces the oxidation process. Just two things degrade gasoline, oxidation and the loss of volatility (evaporation of the volatiles). No chemical can reduce the evaporation process, the best guard against that is a plumb-full tank or container. Chemicals such as SeaFoam do not "stabilize", but they do add volatile properties (actually lower the octane value of the fuel) and dissolve gums and varnishes. I only use SeaFoam if the fuel has begun to sour and I believe there may be a gum/varnish problem... I dump the fuel and refill with SeaFoam treated fresh gasoline, let it sit for 24 hours to do its work.

By-the-way, any pump gas already contains some of the best anti-oxidant chemicals (stabilizers) available... and ethanol-blended gas contains more than others. The thing is, those chemicals are not "long-term" anti-oxidants; they're effective for maybe 3-months or so... for "long-term" storage you need to use something like STA-BIL (which is not as effective as the "short-term" stuff, but keeps working over a longer time period). I don't know much about the "ethanol treatments" ('cause I don't use ethanol blends)... but I'd be skeptical of their claims until I could research exactly what they actually do at the chemical level. Adding "chemicals" to something that's been "chemically engineered" to do a specific job ain't necessarily a "good thing" unless you understand exactly what your doing.
*

 

[GVS]

I winterize or summerize by syphoning most of the gasolene,regardless of octane(it's all an alki blend) from the tank,add some 2 stroke oil and run the engine until I smell the oil mix in the exhaust, pull the spark plug,oil down the cylinder(s) and done!If it has a battery I take it out,clean the case and put it on the charger.They all start and run just fine when their season of use comes around.
I guess I'm lucky because I'm not haveing the problem with blended fuel that I hear so many people are haveing.

 

[Whitespider]

I guess I'm lucky because I'm not haveing the problem with blended fuel that I hear so many people are haveing.

Naw, you ain't lucky.
The way I always put is... you just ain't been unlucky yet
*

 

[GVS]

Yeah, I guess the law of averages is against me.

 

[mr.finn]

Every fall I take all my 2 strike equipment, mix up a batch of 2stroke oil(a little rich) put some startron and mystery oil to 89 octane pump gas. Run all the stuff on that for a minute or two. I then empty the tank and run them dry. In the spring I mix up a new batch of fuel and everything starts just like it always does. Been doing this for about5-10 years and never had a single problem with anything. Just my 2 cents. Any fuel that sits around longer than I think I want it to gets dumped into my truck.

 

[Whitespider]

Yeah, I guess the law of averages is against me.

Not really...
The chances of you having fuel related problems is only slightly increased... but the chances of those problems being catastrophic is greatly increased. So in actuality, you're not at that much more risk of having problems, rather at risk of greater expense when, and if, fuel related problems occur. The politics of ethanol is based in the theory of "cost vs. benefit"... meaning it's gonna' cost you more to make things better for the everyone else. But it's the "better" part that's been corrupted... when pure and simple analysis is done, no one is better off with ethanol blended into gasoline... it really is a joke. The "commune" ideology has been tried hundreds of times in the past... it always fails miserably.
*

 

[chuckwood]

Stabilizer, tightly sealed container, cool/cold storage location- works for me for 6+ mos. a/r. 93 octane is way overkill. Most mfgs spec 87 or better; only one I've seen recommending higher is RedMax at 89 octane. More is not necessarily better.

There are a good number of stations around here that sell non ethanol gas. The one I use offers 93 and 87 octane pure gas. I make a 50/50 mix of the two, giving me 90 octane. I've heard and read that saws need more than 87. Since I've switched over to pure gasoline for the last couple years, I haven't rebuilt near as many small engine carburetors. I have a bad habit of leaving mowers, tillers, weedeaters, etc. laying around during the off season with gas in the carbs. There are so many chores to do all the time I just can't get 'em all done.

 

[Mad Professor]

100 LL AV gas MIXED with Golden Spectrol 2-cycle lube seems to store > 1 year and probably more. No SNAKE oils added.

 

[7sleeper]

This is a quite annoying theme and has a lot to do with fear & paranoia and very little to do with scientific research & data. There has not been a scientific paper on fuel life that I am aware of. If anyone has real data to prove that gas mix will turn bad after 30 days / 3 months / 6 months / 1 year please feel free to share with us. All else are only personal views without any control group!

I usually rotate my stored in gas cans 2 stroke mix after 1/2 year. I put it into the lawnmower/-tractor. But that doesn't make me nervous about it, I usually do it because I only have a little rest(like 1/2 quart) in the gas can and know that the next project is around the corner. So I just mix my next gallon after gettig rid of the old.

7

 

[Ronaldo]

This is a quite annoying theme and has a lot to do with fear & paranoia and very little to do with scientific research & data. There has not been a scientific paper on fuel life that I am aware of. If anyone has real data to prove that gas mix will turn bad after 30 days / 3 months / 6 months / 1 year please feel free to share with us. All else are only personal views without any control group!

I usually rotate my stored in gas cans 2 stroke mix after 1/2 year. I put it into the lawnmower/-tractor. But that doesn't make me nervous about it, I usually do it because I only have a little rest(like 1/2 quart) in the gas can and know that the next project is around the corner. So I just mix my next gallon after gettig rid of the old.

7

I tend more towards your view on gasoline and its life, 7sleeper. I have run ethanol fuels for years in mowers, atv's, small tractors, 2 cycle engines, including chainsaws and have not had any trouble. I have kept mix in good sealed containers for months at a time and used them with no problems also.
Dad and Grandpa started using ethanol fuel on the farm when it started being the fuel that was available and sold, not because of any belief or political opinions, just because that is what was delivered from the local Farmers Coop and I dont know of any fuel related issues that it caused.
So, maybe I (we) havent been unlucky yet, but think there is a lot of paranoia about the fuels these days.

 

[BillNole]

Just in case you didn't know about this site: http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OH Unfortunately, I didn't see any in Toledo.

Fortunately, the 2nd closest gas station to me sells all non-ethanol-free gas. I now use no-ethanol high test in all my gas engines.

Good luck!

http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

Try this one. It's an interactive map that I use while travelling. As Stumpy mentioned, there's a station that appears to be right across the state line in MI, if that's not to far for the OP...

 

[Whitespider]

This is a quite annoying theme and has a lot to do with fear & paranoia and very little to do with scientific research & data.

You are aware that all pump gasoline in the USA is what's known as "Reformulated Gasoline"... correct??
"Reformulated Gasoline" has oxygenates added to it to reduce the carbon monoxide emissions. When gasoline goes sour, stale, bad or whatever you want to call it, it's because of oxidation... and the addition of those oxygenates greatly increases the rate of oxidation. Years ago, before the laws requiring "Reformulated Gasoline" it was common to store gasoline in a sealed container for two or three years... sometimes even longer. Now-a-days even the gasoline suppliers try to keep no more than 30-60 days worth of fuel in storage tanks because 90 days is generally considered the maximum shelf-life before it begins to degrade... meaning it needs to be delivered to gas stations and sold to consumers before that 90 days is up.

I'd love to have access to the gasoline you have in Austria 7sleeper... not only is very little of it "Reformulated", but it also of much higher quality.

Oh... and not only does "Reformulated Gasoline" or oxygenated gasoline spoil much faster, it also contains less energy. Depending on who supplies the numbers, "Reformulated Gasoline" reduces fuel mileage from 3% (government numbers) to 12% (real world numbers).
*

 

[Poindexter]

I wouldn't mind some more tips on what to do with the old stuff.

I have about two gallons with Husqvarna oil in it from Sept 13 that I will probably burn through in the next two months, its been in an airtight new fangled gas can and I am not too worried about that.

I also have about 5 gallons with Mercury oil in it that I am concerned about. Its left over from September 2012 moose season, summer 2013 was really dry, the rivers were low, we could hardly take the boat out.

 

[7sleeper]

@Whitespider

Thank you for the info, but as far as I understand our gas quality is about the same as you have access to. There is no hocus pocus mambo jambo here in austrian gas to make it any better than us gas at least in the higher grade. I usually always go to the independent gas stations that have lower prices than the main stream. Why? Because they have the highest turn around so the probability that there is anything going on is highly reduced.

Further I believe that storage is one of the deal breakers. If you keep your gas tumbling around in the sun in a ballooned plastic gas container, then there is a higher chance for problems. If on the other side you keep it stored as "neutral" as possible, then the chances are rather slim.

Since this discussion comes up regularly I will also add that ethanol fuel has been used since at least 10 years, so all feared problems should have been addressed by the manufacturers a long time ago. If not it is, for me, clearly a sign of good economic thinking. "Hopefully the saws, cars, motorcycles, etc die a soon death after the introduction of ethanol gas, so that we can sell new ones....".

And last the fear of "reformulated oxygenated gasoline" and treating it with a cure /stabilizer is something I have never understood. Because the stabilizers never have quoted any "anti oxygenate" properties in there commercials. The only "bad thing" is the ethanol, for which each engine manufactured in the past 10 years should be designed for.

7

 

[7sleeper]

I tend ..
So, maybe I (we) havent been unlucky yet, but think there is a lot of paranoia about the fuels these days.

Fear and paranoia is a very dangerous motivation and people do many irrational things in that situation that can easily be exploited ...

7

 

[Oliver1655]

7sleeper: There are a lot of us using engines much older than 10 years. Several small engine shops have stated an increase in fuel system failures since ethanol in the older engines. I have replaced several automotive "in tank" fuel hoses which have failed since the start of ethanol fuel. I have queried several mechanics who said this has been a frequent enough problem they have started keeping the line on hand. They use to have to special order the submersible fuel line. Now the auto parts stores have started to stock it. Is there a problem using ethanol fuel in older vehicles? You decide.

 

[7sleeper]

@Oliver1655
I understand that fully and have never denied this. The repair carb set for my saw also had two different types of membranes. But I still do not see any well cared engines dying due to the fuel. If on the other hand someone is ignorant and continues to run the engine although acoustically something is clearly not right, well then I will call it operator error and not fuel fault.

7

 

[Whitespider]

And last the fear of "reformulated oxygenated gasoline" and treating it with a cure /stabilizer is something I have never understood. Because the stabilizers never have quoted any "anti oxygenate" properties in there commercials.

From the STA-BIL website...
"...fuels tend to deteriorate when stored for more than a month...
...stabilizer behaves as a protective coating around the fuel and avoiding the oxidative degradation of the fuel."
http://stabilfuelstabilizer.com/

From the AMSOIL website...
"Gasoline is not formulated for long-term storage and can start to de-grade in as little as 60 days...
AMSOIL Gasoline Stabilizer (AST) reduces the oxidation process that occurs when fuel is stored for extended periods..."
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/fuel-additives/gasoline/gasoline-stabilizer/

This from CNN News...
"A more serious problem: Oxidation
Hydrocarbons in the gas react with oxygen to produce new compounds that eventually change the chemical composition of the fuel.
How long does it take for gas to go bad?
That depends on a number of factors. For one, it's hard to know how old the gas you just bought actually is. It may be fresh from the refinery, or it may be a month old already by the time you top off your tank. Some gasoline is mixed with better or more oxidation inhibitors than others.
It's a good rule of thumb to avoid leaving gas in your tank or a storage container for more than a coupe of months, if you can avoid it."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/04/09/aa.bad.gas/

Oh... and in an earlier post you asked for the "science" of it...
Well, here's a link to 300 pages of "science" related to the oxidation of fuel... pages 205 through 209 are a list of references that will lead you to tens-of-thousands (maybe hundreds-of-thousands) more pages relating to the "science" of it.
http://idea.library.drexel.edu/bitstream/1860/373/12/Lenhert_David.pdf

Happy reading.
*

 

[Whitespider]

...I understand our gas quality is about the same as you have access to. There is no hocus pocus mambo jambo here in austrian gas to make it any better than us gas at least in the higher grade.

Not according to the IFQC (International Fuel Quality Center), the European fuel standards call for (pump) gasoline much lower in contaminates and sulfurs than the U.S. fuel standards... the quality of your pump gasoline is closer to our aviation gas then it is to our pump gas. This has been a well known fact among the performance minded (motor-heads) for a few decades now. High-performance European sports cars require "de-tuning" to run on our pump gas... as much as 100 HP is lost in some cases.

It-is-what-it-is...
*