A & E...The art and Zen of the Grunt (Groundworker)

[TreeTarget]

It would require alot of time to list the various niches of the business, and the different requirements for each. Many of these divisions have resulted in the specializations listed in this forum, and alot of that information--though beneficial--fails to recognize the metaphorical sphincter of the organization.

We are talking about the ground-crew, here. Grunt, laborer, carrier, pilot, humper, gopher, counsellor, lackey, pawn, carry-all, stacker, pusher, apprentice, disciple, jockey, hourly, mule, packer, consultant, hauler, runner, puller, stand-by, quality-assurance, tugger, wedge, mover, raker, janitor, loader, excuse, butt, juicer, sharpener, you get the drift...
Not that the arborist, when you work for one worth the title, doesn't deserve the focus...but there are other aspects of the work that are not as glamorous, though worth some mention nevertheless.

In my time with tree-crews and subsidiaries such as hauling/heavy equipment, I have...
Driven the trucks with fantasies of Maximum Overdrive, operated the buckets without a problem, ran the cats and backhoes and front-end loaders--that was a favorite, set up rigging as trained and later (years later) learned how I SHOULD have done it, fed chippers that gave me nightmares, used saws that seemed bigger that I was and kept records with clear focus and little understanding.

Nowadays...I am just a grunt. No, not a complaint.

Lack of responsibility...no.
Gravy Job...no.
The pay...this isn't the funny thread.
Glamour...my wife doen't mind the grime, but...

When I was a kid, I really enjoyed fall, and the gathering of firewood. That, and running through the woods (no, sadly they did not have cross-country running in schools when I moved here from out west). I am older now, so don't run much, but I still feel pretty good after working the body all day like I never got out of the other aspects of the tree-care industry.

What I don't need:
Another license (driving to work and back is enough), liability for damages (hard to demolish my end of the business if you are being alert), certifications (have enough, don't need more now, thank you), or records (hours worked is easy to jot down).
What I do need:
Glasses, hard-hat, lunch, water, attention to the boss and falling objects.

Simple.
Satori is a worthwhile achievement/goal/experience/state, no matter the endeavor. The purity of being a grunt tends to lend a piece to the mind through the focus that I find within the work itself...the breath, the heartbeat, the firmness of the ground, the simple physics of the innane and the solving of koans without the exertion of empty, worthless thoughts.
Cannot say how many times, driving home from a day of slave-labor, that there suddenly appears before my mind the solution to a problem I had not thought on all day--having been lost in the minuteness of the sawdust, the chain oil and filings...the firmness and tight feeling in my hands from putting my will through them and into my task.

Not to say there is not alot to learn when it comes to being being on the ground. Root flairs, knots (could actually apply that to home life), studying small-engine repair, trying to anticipate the boss's needs and not getting upset when his attitude lets you know when he is getting low on sugar (usually around the customer), leverage, invention, where did I put that tool, and on and on...
But when it comes down to it, these are just little things. One gets used to it and they become little things in the background...kind of like the boss's sugar crashes. It is the working of the body that clears my mind. Lunch will soothe the boss...Lactic acids and a hot shower work the other wonders.

 

[ropensaddle]

Lmfao the best grunt is a retired climber what we need is boys willing to learn
I would bet if a groundy experience one violent shock load at ninety foot he would instantly learn how to let it run. Too bad most will never know the real end of treework. I have done the ground it pales in comparison on some climbs and on others it is easier but yes the ground has its difficulty but most climbers have and some like myself still do ground and climbing!

 

[TreeTarget]

Been around some of those younger guys. Some are willing to learn, alot have a fascination with movin' right along when the job gets rough.

Have only had two bosses (either climbers or butchers) that worked the ground. Too many you run into seem above it...but that's ok...job security.

 

[EdenT]

It's an arbor team....

I work both ground and climb. I think a climber can only be as good as the ground crew supporting them. Likewise the ground crew are dependent on good direction from the climber. My favorite days are when the whole team meshes perfectly, everybody knows what they're doing, and it gets done safely and quickly. When I am in a tree, my comfort level correlates almost exactly with my confidence in my ground crew. Good groundies are worth their weight in gold!

Whatever you do, remember your life is ticking away while your doing it. Always be the best you, you can be.To do less is to rob yourself of life!

Great post Tree Target

 

[tree md]

I've had some good ones and still do. Some have passed on. My first groundie was in his 40's when I started out in my early 20's. He died young. Had another good one pass on as well. Longtime ex girlfriend's step dad. He was in his 50's when he worked for me and would work from sunup to sundown and never complain. Worked circles around the younger guys. Also, the guy who first put me in a tree used to groundie for me while I climbed. The deal was I still had to do ground work too when I came down though.

I have never been the type to sit on my ass when the tree is on the ground. LOL, I would say that I still work the hardest on the ground than any of my crew. I like to run the ground operation when I have an apprentice climber too. It's fun teaching someone to climb and as has been mentioned, no one can run the ropes better than a climber. Also, if you are the owner or even the crew chief it is good to spend some time on the ground with your guys. If you're the crew chief or owner, odds are that you have the most experience. It's good to get down with the ground crew and teach them the shortcuts and best way to do things. It's simple arithmetic after you have been doing it for a lot of years but not so to newer guys. Simple things like the natural order of cleanup, how to run a saw, get the truck closer to the brush pile to make shorter trips. All common sense but newer guys still need to be shown the best way. It makes for a better more cohesive team when you take the time to show your guys the shortcuts and let them know that you don't think yourself above ground work. When they see you know how to do it well and there is a reason that you tell them to do things in a certain order they tend to have a lot more respect for you.

 

[Tree Pig]

It would require alot of time to list the various niches of the business, and the different requirements for each. Many of these divisions have resulted in the specializations listed in this forum, and alot of that information--though beneficial--fails to recognize the metaphorical sphincter of the organization.

We are talking about the ground-crew, here. Grunt, laborer, carrier, pilot, humper, gopher, counsellor, lackey, pawn, carry-all, stacker, pusher, apprentice, disciple, jockey, hourly, mule, packer, consultant, hauler, runner, puller, stand-by, quality-assurance, tugger, wedge, mover, raker, janitor, loader, excuse, butt, juicer, sharpener, you get the drift...
Not that the arborist, when you work for one worth the title, doesn't deserve the focus...but there are other aspects of the work that are not as glamorous, though worth some mention nevertheless.

In my time with tree-crews and subsidiaries such as hauling/heavy equipment, I have...
Driven the trucks with fantasies of Maximum Overdrive, operated the buckets without a problem, ran the cats and backhoes and front-end loaders--that was a favorite, set up rigging as trained and later (years later) learned how I SHOULD have done it, fed chippers that gave me nightmares, used saws that seemed bigger that I was and kept records with clear focus and little understanding.

Nowadays...I am just a grunt. No, not a complaint.

Lack of responsibility...no.
Gravy Job...no.
The pay...this isn't the funny thread.
Glamour...my wife doen't mind the grime, but...

When I was a kid, I really enjoyed fall, and the gathering of firewood. That, and running through the woods (no, sadly they did not have cross-country running in schools when I moved here from out west). I am older now, so don't run much, but I still feel pretty good after working the body all day like I never got out of the other aspects of the tree-care industry.

What I don't need:
Another license (driving to work and back is enough), liability for damages (hard to demolish my end of the business if you are being alert), certifications (have enough, don't need more now, thank you), or records (hours worked is easy to jot down).
What I do need:
Glasses, hard-hat, lunch, water, attention to the boss and falling objects.

Simple.
Satori is a worthwhile achievement/goal/experience/state, no matter the endeavor. The purity of being a grunt tends to lend a piece to the mind through the focus that I find within the work itself...the breath, the heartbeat, the firmness of the ground, the simple physics of the innane and the solving of koans without the exertion of empty, worthless thoughts.
Cannot say how many times, driving home from a day of slave-labor, that there suddenly appears before my mind the solution to a problem I had not thought on all day--having been lost in the minuteness of the sawdust, the chain oil and filings...the firmness and tight feeling in my hands from putting my will through them and into my task.

Not to say there is not alot to learn when it comes to being being on the ground. Root flairs, knots (could actually apply that to home life), studying small-engine repair, trying to anticipate the boss's needs and not getting upset when his attitude lets you know when he is getting low on sugar (usually around the customer), leverage, invention, where did I put that tool, and on and on...
But when it comes down to it, these are just little things. One gets used to it and they become little things in the background...kind of like the boss's sugar crashes. It is the working of the body that clears my mind. Lunch will soothe the boss...Lactic acids and a hot shower work the other wonders.

Very insightful in a spiritual way, but it sounds more like Musashi, then zen. Musashi the greatest Samurai that ever lived, and became a writer/philosopher after he saw too much battle.

"Get beyond love and grief: exist for the good of Man.”
— Miyamoto Musashi (Book of Five Rings)

 

[ropensaddle]

Been around some of those younger guys. Some are willing to learn, alot have a fascination with movin' right along when the job gets rough.

Have only had two bosses (either climbers or butchers) that worked the ground. Too many you run into seem above it...but that's ok...job security.

I will say if things are right as rain there won't be too much for the climber to do when he hits ground but that is expecting performance from great ground team. It depends on what I see from the tree and the work at hand how much energy I expel when my feets hit the ground. In other words, have they been truly working and just the sheer amount of material has them behind,or is it the case of; cell phone walking around or standing with hands in pockets. If it is the latter, I expel energy vocally and if that don't work, I send them home and do it myself. What I was referring to earlier was the art of working ropes and a climber truly can do it better than any ground dwelling creature because he automatically knows when to leave some slack,when to pull it tight and how to let it run. If your a grunt that has learned all this, your valuable and team man number two. labor is a dime a dozen,most can drag brush and load chunks.

 

[TreeTarget]

Very insightful in a spiritual way, but it sounds more like Musashi, then zen. Musashi the greatest Samurai that ever lived, and became a writer/philosopher after he saw too much battle.

"Get beyond love and grief: exist for the good of Man.”
— Miyamoto Musashi (Book of Five Rings)

Good, Musashi was Zen, and Satori may be practiced at any time, be it wielding the sword or the brush-hook.
I will admit...though it does feel good to have the ground clear when the monkey comes down from the tree, there are alot of little things that don't come so easily. Luckily, I have not dropped dead yet like tree md's help, and try to stay safe/realize my limitations.
I try to save energy and make movements/labor productive, yet it's the little things that work the wear... throw-ball knots and inaccuracy/inexperience; snapping rake/shovel handles; oil cap not tight, so boss lubricates leg on way to tree...you know, little things.
BUT...
I don't have kids to deal with and the liabilities that go along with teaching...I don't have to sit on my butt listening to other people's problems or ask them about their relationship with their mother...and I don't have to do paperwork...I like my job.

 

[outofmytree]

Cool OP. I have had good and bad ground crew and the best were over 35. I think the best all round crew would be one experienced hand with good people skills and some raw muscle. Brains and brawn if you know what I mean. I do most of the climbing for my team and I have to say the last thing I want to do after 6-8 hours in harness is drag brush. Gratefully that is not a problem.

 

[Burvol]

It would require alot of time to list the various niches of the business, and the different requirements for each. Many of these divisions have resulted in the specializations listed in this forum, and alot of that information--though beneficial--fails to recognize the metaphorical sphincter of the organization.

We are talking about the ground-crew, here. Grunt, laborer, carrier, pilot, humper, gopher, counsellor, lackey, pawn, carry-all, stacker, pusher, apprentice, disciple, jockey, hourly, mule, packer, consultant, hauler, runner, puller, stand-by, quality-assurance, tugger, wedge, mover, raker, janitor, loader, excuse, butt, juicer, sharpener, you get the drift...
Not that the arborist, when you work for one worth the title, doesn't deserve the focus...but there are other aspects of the work that are not as glamorous, though worth some mention nevertheless.

In my time with tree-crews and subsidiaries such as hauling/heavy equipment, I have...
Driven the trucks with fantasies of Maximum Overdrive, operated the buckets without a problem, ran the cats and backhoes and front-end loaders--that was a favorite, set up rigging as trained and later (years later) learned how I SHOULD have done it, fed chippers that gave me nightmares, used saws that seemed bigger that I was and kept records with clear focus and little understanding.

Nowadays...I am just a grunt. No, not a complaint.

Lack of responsibility...no.
Gravy Job...no.
The pay...this isn't the funny thread.
Glamour...my wife doen't mind the grime, but...

When I was a kid, I really enjoyed fall, and the gathering of firewood. That, and running through the woods (no, sadly they did not have cross-country running in schools when I moved here from out west). I am older now, so don't run much, but I still feel pretty good after working the body all day like I never got out of the other aspects of the tree-care industry.

What I don't need:
Another license (driving to work and back is enough), liability for damages (hard to demolish my end of the business if you are being alert), certifications (have enough, don't need more now, thank you), or records (hours worked is easy to jot down).
What I do need:
Glasses, hard-hat, lunch, water, attention to the boss and falling objects.

Simple.
Satori is a worthwhile achievement/goal/experience/state, no matter the endeavor. The purity of being a grunt tends to lend a piece to the mind through the focus that I find within the work itself...the breath, the heartbeat, the firmness of the ground, the simple physics of the innane and the solving of koans without the exertion of empty, worthless thoughts.
Cannot say how many times, driving home from a day of slave-labor, that there suddenly appears before my mind the solution to a problem I had not thought on all day--having been lost in the minuteness of the sawdust, the chain oil and filings...the firmness and tight feeling in my hands from putting my will through them and into my task.

Not to say there is not alot to learn when it comes to being being on the ground. Root flairs, knots (could actually apply that to home life), studying small-engine repair, trying to anticipate the boss's needs and not getting upset when his attitude lets you know when he is getting low on sugar (usually around the customer), leverage, invention, where did I put that tool, and on and on...
But when it comes down to it, these are just little things. One gets used to it and they become little things in the background...kind of like the boss's sugar crashes. It is the working of the body that clears my mind. Lunch will soothe the boss...Lactic acids and a hot shower work the other wonders.

Piece of cake bro. Good thing you know how to not F-up what works for you and makes ya happy

 

[jefflovstrom]

Whew! Windy.
Jeff

 

[tree md]

This post made me think about my first groundie and I had to chuckle. I learned so much from that guy. He had nearly 20 years on me and had been doing tree work a heck of a lot longer than me. He had worked for my first boss then came to work with me when I started doing my own jobs. He taught me how to sharpen a chain and a lot of other stuff. The dude could fix anything. I remember I was up in the tree one day and I saw him make a choker out of a length of rope, stack a bunch of limbs on it, choke the butt ends and drag the whole pile to the truck. He was bald headed and I told him that that was using his head for something other than growing hair on. When he would get frustrated with me he would tell me he was going to jerk the hair off of my head and put it on his. We ran out of gas in the pickup one day about a mile from the gas station and he got a long neck beer bottle off the side of the road, put some saw gas in there and somehow hooked the fuel line to it under the hood. It got us to the gas station without having to walk. This guy was hilarious. He was roping a limb for me one day and I took it a little too heavy. It drug him halfway up the tree but he never let go. He saved my ass on that one. I asked him one day why he never climbed. He told me only two things fall from the sky; bird#### and fools. Everyone affectionately called him Bubba... RIP Bubba.

 

[TreeTarget]

The biggest problem for being an old dog...finding out alot of the things I learned years ago, though applicable to a situation, are either totally unsafe or completely devoid of the nuiances required to do the job correctly.

My first ground job, I learned how to sharpen with an electric grinder, how to drive the rigs and operate the equipment, how to cut down a tree or bring it down.

Subsequent jobs (yeah, I keep returning to labor...dumb) showed what I had learned in my previous tree-service work was taught by a professional short-cutter. Digging graves corrected the sloppiness of backhoe work; driving a gravel truck was easier when I was educated on how to unlock brakes and taught the wonders of speed-shifting and double-clutching; angles, sheen and symmetry matter when sharpening a saw.

...It's coming along...the knots and ties are the hardest so far. Though I tied many shoelaces together in my time, none of that ever related to tree work. Norwegian Butterfly, double-fisherman, prusik (sp?)...it's coming along...

I still get a kick though, when I hear, "What the hell?" coming from up in the tree, when the equipment is tied on in a way I would not have, had I remembered the right knot.

 

[ropensaddle]

The biggest problem for being an old dog...finding out alot of the things I learned years ago, though applicable to a situation, are either totally unsafe or completely devoid of the nuiances required to do the job correctly.

My first ground job, I learned how to sharpen with an electric grinder, how to drive the rigs and operate the equipment, how to cut down a tree or bring it down.

Subsequent jobs (yeah, I keep returning to labor...dumb) showed what I had learned in my previous tree-service work was taught by a professional short-cutter. Digging graves corrected the sloppiness of backhoe work; driving a gravel truck was easier when I was educated on how to unlock brakes and taught the wonders of speed-shifting and double-clutching; angles, sheen and symmetry matter when sharpening a saw.

...It's coming along...the knots and ties are the hardest so far. Though I tied many shoelaces together in my time, none of that ever related to tree work. Norwegian Butterfly, double-fisherman, prusik (sp?)...it's coming along...

I still get a kick though, when I hear, "What the hell?" coming from up in the tree, when the equipment is tied on in a way I would not have, had I remembered the right knot.

Lol tree target you sound like you may have what it takes to be a good ground dude lol. I know we climbers can bring much expectation and even at times more than seems humanly possible and some of us also bring mental deficiency seemingly upon you, the good thing is; if we are griping at you then it usually means you are the go to guy. I know that sounds lame but it is true. I won't waist my breath on someone not trying.

 

[ddhlakebound]

So I see you guys have met Tree Target... He's been working ground with me for a few months now, and we've been good friends for years and years.

So that makes me the tree monkey that's grumpy when his bloodsugar is low, and the guy who's going "what the hell?" when the rig line comes up in a gob of loops and hitches instead of a sheet bend or a clove.

Sometimes I probably don't train enough, and expect too much, but Tree Target is coming along well. Last week he timed a drop perfectly as the dead tulip poplar limb swung out from over the house and into the yard and landed exactly where I wanted it. And I rarely mess with any brush anymore, unless I've brought in a bucket and I'm on the ground too. It's nice.

 

[ropensaddle]

So I see you guys have met Tree Target... He's been working ground with me for a few months now, and we've been good friends for years and years.

So that makes me the tree monkey that's grumpy when his bloodsugar is low, and the guy who's going "what the hell?" when the rig line comes up in a gob of loops and hitches instead of a sheet bend or a clove.

Sometimes I probably don't train enough, and expect too much, but Tree Target is coming along well. Last week he timed a drop perfectly as the dead tulip poplar limb swung out from over the house and into the yard and landed exactly where I wanted it. And I rarely mess with any brush anymore, unless I've brought in a bucket and I'm on the ground too. It's nice.

Well it's good he is working out, means ya don't have to teach him the thirteen wraps over a loop knot:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[tree md]

Just to have a groundman take enough interest to read and post here has to be refreshing. I know it would be for me.

Although every task is important, knowing how to run the ropes is the biggest thing I look for in a good groundie.

The groundie I have had with me for about three years now is from the same part of GA as me. We grew up not far from each other and knew a lot of the same people back home. He worked the ground for his brother in law's tree service for around 20 years. He's good on the ropes. We did one Friday where we had to swing almost every limb and chunk out from over the house and land them in the yard before they swung back into the house. He did his job flawlessly. I've got two good rope men that have been with me for 2 years or better now.

 

[TreeTarget]

means ya don't have to teach him the thirteen wraps over a loop knot:hmm3grin2orange:

See, there you go...and all I have to say is, Huh? I can't even stay awake long enough to hunt deer...no way I'm going after snipe.

 

[ropensaddle]

See, there you go...and all I have to say is, Huh? I can't even stay awake long enough to hunt deer...no way I'm going after snipe.

It is called a noose :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[TreeTarget]

ok, I like westerns...been practicing...