Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
The worlds race drivers are not reckless, they're fast.
Building efficiencies into your work method will make you faster.
Building efficiencies into your work method will make you faster.
a good climber??
- Thread starter mpatch
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Did you guys miss me? I couldn't help but to speak up on the not spuring a removal. I'll fess up here and say yes, I have been "stupid" enough or am that stupid not to wear hooks on a removal. Honestly I hate to wear them. If I know I dont need to stand on any spars and can get away with not wearing that is the road I take. I can run out a limb better without having all that metal under my feet. I worry less about hooking my rope. If you can prune without hooks you can probably remove just as well, accept when it comes to blocking down a spar. For me its just a comfort thing.At one time I could run up a tree with hooks faster then I could walk up a ladder now I can run up a rope faster than I could run up a ladder. At one time I used to pray that I live when I was in a tree, now I can only pray I die. Evolution!!
squisher
ArboristSite Operative
At one time I used to pray that I live when I was in a tree said:
It is good to feel proud, but we do it every day. This guy should get over himself, after all, it is just another day at work.
Jeff Lovstrom
Jeff Lovstrom
RolloriClimber
ArboristSite Lurker
I agree with learning spikeless first then spikes,the way I was taught and when I started to learn spikes I was shaky I didn't trust them at first to where I did a removal or 2 with out spikes .
But learning with out spikes first helps a climber learn not to rely on their spikes for as limitations to their climbing ability and for safety purposes.
But learning with out spikes first helps a climber learn not to rely on their spikes for as limitations to their climbing ability and for safety purposes.
matty f
ArboristSite Operative
logical thinking and being methodical for the tasks in hand beats trying to be fast and getting it wrong.
After a good old look at the tree from the ground, climb up the tree to get an anchor point at a moderate speed so you can work out the tree a bit more,looking for weaknesses hazards ect you haven't already spotted,then spend a few mins in the top working out the best anchor points and roping routes, where you will start to where you will finish as you can often pick out easyer ways or see that things where not gonna work out from what you saw on the ground!...
Now you have a logical plan to do the work, all you need is some confidence in your equipment,knowledge of different woods and how they react and some determination to get things done.
Nice to have a good climber on the ground as they usually see everything from the climbers view and can get them rigging ropes working just how you want and can make things move when you need instead of just gawking up or disappearing to the truck for 10 mins in a critical situation.
After a good old look at the tree from the ground, climb up the tree to get an anchor point at a moderate speed so you can work out the tree a bit more,looking for weaknesses hazards ect you haven't already spotted,then spend a few mins in the top working out the best anchor points and roping routes, where you will start to where you will finish as you can often pick out easyer ways or see that things where not gonna work out from what you saw on the ground!...
Now you have a logical plan to do the work, all you need is some confidence in your equipment,knowledge of different woods and how they react and some determination to get things done.
Nice to have a good climber on the ground as they usually see everything from the climbers view and can get them rigging ropes working just how you want and can make things move when you need instead of just gawking up or disappearing to the truck for 10 mins in a critical situation.
Climb020
ArboristSite Operative
matty f said:
You are sooo very right. When this is the case words don't even need to be spoke as to what to do and how to do it. A general understanding and similar knowledge and experience level makes for a veryt smooth running crew and a very efficient climber.
I think I noticed not mentioned is a climber that shows up everyday, on time or early and ready to start working the minute they clock in. Not daffy ducking, talking on cell phones and looking around for where they put their gear.
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
RolloriClimber said:
I disagree. I think climber should start out with spikes. I also think they should free climb to the top and tie in, rap down and do their work. But of course I was taught this way.
Hey big john glad your back
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
xtremetrees said:
I gotta agree. Put a new guy on spikes, with a flipline, and a backup lanyard. This way, he can climb to his tip, without ever being unhooked from the tree. Use the backup to saftey in going around branches, crotches, then reset the flipline and continue up.
Just make sure the new guy can tie, dress, and set his friction hitch perfectly before he leaves the ground, or better yet, use a split tail, and have him tie it on the ground, so all he has to do is clip in.
When I started climbing on the ROW, I was sent up with only one prussic adjusting 3 strand lanyard, and a fixed tail rope, to be used w/ tautline hitch. This meant (unless a rope was already in the tree, which wasn't often) that there would be moments of not being tied in at all, while redirecting the lanyard. It didn't take long to demand a second lanyard, to maintain safety at all times. I knew nothing of split tails, mechanical adjuster fliplines, or friction hitches other than the tautline for the first few months.
Now I tie my blake's on the ground, and use the split tail as a safety while redirecting my steelcore.
On to spikeless.....
When I left the ROW, I immeadiately started learning spikeless climbing. It was hard work. Much more physical effort to attain the same height. I'm sure it would have been even more difficult if I hadn't been conditioned to spike climbing, used to using ropes, tieing knots, and simply being in the trees.
It does get easier, as you get used to it, and learn the most efficient use of your muscles. I want to try SRT in the next year, just for more options and higher efficiency in climbing spikeless to a fair height.
I have not spiked a prune since I left the ROW, and I won't (but I would if I was doing backwoods ROW work again, because they are the right tool for the job).
I haven't left the spikes in the truck for any removals though.
matty f
ArboristSite Operative
I learned spikless too ,found it easy...well sorta ,we used to get 3 targets in a tree and tag all them then we learnt with spikes,.straight away i saw more accidents one was my mate slipping 15 foot untill his Swedish strop wedged his hands and harness in to a large popular stem second was an ex dutch para trooper running up a pole trying to get the fastest time to the top and he flipped the flip line right over the top luckily he knew how to land from a fall and only had bad bruising,some one also put a spike in his leg, this was in the space of a month and i don't recall any accidents with people learning drt or srt.
Yep spiking has its place in tree work and when it does its efficient but i my world its only used on take downs with no crutches bends or anything else to maneuver off mainly just a conifer pole or a big old popular i would never teach a climber to go up on spikes first,but i will shut up now as this whole spiking thing hijacking every tree climbing thread is getting on my nerves enough said we all know each other's opinion about it now.
Yep spiking has its place in tree work and when it does its efficient but i my world its only used on take downs with no crutches bends or anything else to maneuver off mainly just a conifer pole or a big old popular i would never teach a climber to go up on spikes first,but i will shut up now as this whole spiking thing hijacking every tree climbing thread is getting on my nerves enough said we all know each other's opinion about it now.
OTG BOSTON
Addicted to ArboristSite
xtremetrees said:
Other way around..................or is that what you meant????
Climbers make the best groundmen, then again this was a question about climbers.
Next one to start with the spikeless/spike climbing arguement should be sent to the frikkin' moon!!!!
gitrdun_climbr
ArboristSite Operative
different strokes for different folks
I think a good climber comes in many forms. Certainly the basics in safety, efficiency, communication, biological understanding, homeowner relations, reliability, equipment management, etc. are all key components to a good climber IMO there is still plenty of room for creativity...or as the old cliche goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. In other words there is definitely the scientific aspect but don't forget about the artistic aspect as well. That is why so many of us have so many different ways of doing the same things. In fact, two of my 'mentors' in climbing have completely different styles, one being the smoothest spiker you'll ever see and the other will blow your mind at how fast he can footlock to 80' (9 time PNW-ISA champ). The greatest thing they have in common is their lack of ego. Always humble, smiling, happy, helpful, willing to teach, willing to learn despite their vast and intense experience and acheivment. To me, these are some good climber characteristics.
For those who boast about their techniques being the only way speaks volumes to their limitations without them even realizing it.
Happy climbing!
I think a good climber comes in many forms. Certainly the basics in safety, efficiency, communication, biological understanding, homeowner relations, reliability, equipment management, etc. are all key components to a good climber IMO there is still plenty of room for creativity...or as the old cliche goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. In other words there is definitely the scientific aspect but don't forget about the artistic aspect as well. That is why so many of us have so many different ways of doing the same things. In fact, two of my 'mentors' in climbing have completely different styles, one being the smoothest spiker you'll ever see and the other will blow your mind at how fast he can footlock to 80' (9 time PNW-ISA champ). The greatest thing they have in common is their lack of ego. Always humble, smiling, happy, helpful, willing to teach, willing to learn despite their vast and intense experience and acheivment. To me, these are some good climber characteristics.
For those who boast about their techniques being the only way speaks volumes to their limitations without them even realizing it.
Happy climbing!
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
A good climber can untie his own knot and only uses hand signals to communicate. Yelling is for bucket riders and boss's with big ego's.
Yeah OTG a good crew can speed you up or a crew with ambivolence can slow you down. And generally stand underneat and dare you to cut it down on them.
Had a crane man call me this past week, if I go I will be faced with a unknown crew. Its climbers responsibility to make sure folks on the ground that you often times cant see for lower canopy remain safe and out of harms way.
I know several veteran climbers that go around generally cutting trees in half, 20 plus years they got but they are sloppy.
Sure anyone can hook a tree to a truck and whack a tree in half.
I've done it for years pushing freight trains of tree trucks. Its sloppy work but generates alot of cash.
A good climber does not take short cuts, he or she is effecient and waste no energy getting it down safely.
Yeah OTG a good crew can speed you up or a crew with ambivolence can slow you down. And generally stand underneat and dare you to cut it down on them.
Had a crane man call me this past week, if I go I will be faced with a unknown crew. Its climbers responsibility to make sure folks on the ground that you often times cant see for lower canopy remain safe and out of harms way.
I know several veteran climbers that go around generally cutting trees in half, 20 plus years they got but they are sloppy.
Sure anyone can hook a tree to a truck and whack a tree in half.
I've done it for years pushing freight trains of tree trucks. Its sloppy work but generates alot of cash.
A good climber does not take short cuts, he or she is effecient and waste no energy getting it down safely.
Last edited:
A good climber see`s himself/herself as more than a climber . I like the term tree health steward. Yes this is the corniest thing ever posted but so what. I spike removals and I wear running shoes on prunes. Sometimes I wear running shoes on removals . Spikes are overated anyways.
Tree care is more than being a climber...its about knowing what to do when the tree is is dying and the customerer wants it to live. Its about the tree. Its not about a fast buck or a badass tatoo or about the saws, chipper, equipment etc.
A good climber knows what helps trees live. What makes trees die.
A good climber does not have to impress anyone but him/her self .. A good climber knows he is good but doesn`t need a constant pat on the back. A bad climber always needs an ego boost. Good climbers are rare breed, bad climbers are common. Good climbers don`t need drugs nor booze to get high.
A good climber knows all aspects of the bussiness. Climbing is just one small part of our business.
GlennG
Tree care is more than being a climber...its about knowing what to do when the tree is is dying and the customerer wants it to live. Its about the tree. Its not about a fast buck or a badass tatoo or about the saws, chipper, equipment etc.
A good climber knows what helps trees live. What makes trees die.
A good climber does not have to impress anyone but him/her self .. A good climber knows he is good but doesn`t need a constant pat on the back. A bad climber always needs an ego boost. Good climbers are rare breed, bad climbers are common. Good climbers don`t need drugs nor booze to get high.
A good climber knows all aspects of the bussiness. Climbing is just one small part of our business.
GlennG
Last edited:
treesandsurf
ArboristSite Operative
fast does not equal a good climber, in fact it is nervewrecking for me to see a guy moving fast in a tree. The best climbers I've seen working the tree move at an even, deliberate speed. No energy needs to be wasted. The guys that jump around and slip a lot are dangerous and potential liabilities. It's those guys that don't say much and you turn your head away one minute and then you look up and they're at the very tippy end of the branch pruning with their handsaw, and smiling the whole time. That's a good climber. Very quiet and deliberate.
As for a good foreman, someone who doesn't yell at their crew, treats them like people with respect, and allows for appropriate breaks and doesn't overwork the crew, but keeps them moving and working at a professional speed. Basically, a good foreman doesn't stick out in the group, but is definitely the leader. Just some thoughts.....
jp
As for a good foreman, someone who doesn't yell at their crew, treats them like people with respect, and allows for appropriate breaks and doesn't overwork the crew, but keeps them moving and working at a professional speed. Basically, a good foreman doesn't stick out in the group, but is definitely the leader. Just some thoughts.....
jp
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
hey Hawaii,
Id like to come and climb some of them 100 foot palms witha 2 foot rootball.... NOT!
Id like to come and climb some of them 100 foot palms witha 2 foot rootball.... NOT!
treesandsurf
ArboristSite Operative
don't forget 30mph winds! hehehehe
jp
jp
Jim1NZ
ArboristSite Guru
treesandsurf said:
Good post, i agree
jomoco
Tree Freak
good climber??
The guy in the video has the potential to be a good climber if he can improve on his methods & techniques, I noticed quite a few fundamental mistakes he made right from the start. It's always a good idea to get rid of any excess weight from both your tie in point, and your lowering point first thing. Then work the tree down as logicly as possible in a sequence that will avoid getting hung up or require unnecessary control lines. Also never leave stubs or flat cuts that can snag or prevent lowered pieces from reaching the ground.
A Hobbs device can allow you to lift branches and wood in a very controlled manner that in my opinion was not well illustrated by this climber, though he did get the tree down ok.
He has the makings of a good climber, but needs better methods and techniques. The removal in the video was not a very difficult one, and had plenty of room to work in, and probably could have been done without a Hobbs with a good rope man.
I was more impressed by the guy who video taped the takedown's ability to cut away from the scenes where the climber got into trouble, or maybe the video was professionally edited.
jomoco
The guy in the video has the potential to be a good climber if he can improve on his methods & techniques, I noticed quite a few fundamental mistakes he made right from the start. It's always a good idea to get rid of any excess weight from both your tie in point, and your lowering point first thing. Then work the tree down as logicly as possible in a sequence that will avoid getting hung up or require unnecessary control lines. Also never leave stubs or flat cuts that can snag or prevent lowered pieces from reaching the ground.
A Hobbs device can allow you to lift branches and wood in a very controlled manner that in my opinion was not well illustrated by this climber, though he did get the tree down ok.
He has the makings of a good climber, but needs better methods and techniques. The removal in the video was not a very difficult one, and had plenty of room to work in, and probably could have been done without a Hobbs with a good rope man.
I was more impressed by the guy who video taped the takedown's ability to cut away from the scenes where the climber got into trouble, or maybe the video was professionally edited.
jomoco
