Can I get some opinions on a few Pioneers?

[andrethegiant70]

Hi, Gents... looking for some advice here on a few Pioneers. I'm going to keep one and give the other to a friend who needs a saw with some grunt. This friend isn't saw savvy, so to speak, and doesn't have any sense for what nice old saws they are. I suspect the saw will block up some trees this summer then come out once in a blue moon. So I'd like to keep whichever of these saws is the more desirable. I'd like some advice on which one to keep.

After doing fuel system work on both saws, it's looks like they are both runners. The one in the foreground is a P51, the one in the background is a P50. Both seem to have very good compression. The full wrap on the P50 is broken on the bottom but can be cut down into a half wrap easily. The P51 is wearing a clutch cover/muffler cover from a P61. The P51 is definitely in better aesthetic shape.

I notice the intakes are considerably different...is one preferable for the purpose of finding filters and such? I'm not sure if the one on the P51 is stock... how's it look to you fellers?

Thanks to Jerry for a bit of consulting he's already put in on these.

 

[Jacob J.]

The weak points on the P-50 were the ignition and carburetor. Both can be sourced out to later replacement parts. The air filter isn't a big deal, I have several of those NOS in my inventory. The "good" point about the P-50 is that it most likely has a bridged exhaust, keeping the piston and rings more stable at higher speeds.

The P-51 is a good saw. They're both good saws. The P-51 looks stock aside from the clutch cover. Would it be possible to repair the full-wrap handle without cutting it down to a half-wrap?

 

[andrethegiant70]

The weak points on the P-50 were the ignition and carburetor. Both can be sourced out to later replacement parts. The air filter isn't a big deal, I have several of those NOS in my inventory. The "good" point about the P-50 is that it most likely has a bridged exhaust, keeping the piston and rings more stable at higher speeds.

The P-51 is a good saw. They're both good saws. The P-51 looks stock aside from the clutch cover. Would it be possible to repair the full-wrap handle without cutting it down to a half-wrap?

Hmmm.... it sounds like you think both saws have strong points. Regarding the wrap, there is definitely some material missing. I assume it's aluminum, so I suppose it would need a TIG job. Here's a pic....

 

[Jacob J.]

Yeah that handle could easily be repaired. I've seen handlebars repaired that were missing entire sections...


As far as what to keep and what to let go, only you can answer that. Both saws have parts that would be hard to find and both have good and bad points. If it were me, I'd hang onto those and find something more modern for my buddy...

 

[andrethegiant70]

Yeah that handle could easily be repaired. I've seen handlebars repaired that were missing entire sections...


As far as what to keep and what to let go, only you can answer that. Both saws have parts that would be hard to find and both have good and bad points. If it were me, I'd hang onto those and find something more modern for my buddy...

Let's just say my buddy (a work associate, actually) needs a big saw but doesn't really want to PAY for a big saw. I suppose I could give him an 044 or a 372, but for the $50 bucks he's going to pay me... well, need I explain? I'm kinda sad I'm letting a Pioneer go, but I don't have anything else right now that will do the job. I'm glad to help him out but I just don't know him well enough to throw an expensive saw at him.

 

[Jacob J.]

I'm not saying to throw something expensive at him...Does he really need that big of a saw? Is he going to be consistently cutting something that a Wild Thing absolutely won't be able to handle?

 

[RandyMac]

How big is "big", in some areas big is 60cc, in others, big needs to be 100c or better.

 

[Little Al]

Let's just say my buddy (a work associate, actually) needs a big saw but doesn't really want to PAY for a big saw. I suppose I could give him an 044 or a 372, but for the $50 bucks he's going to pay me... well, need I explain? I'm kinda sad I'm letting a Pioneer go, but I don't have anything else right now that will do the job. I'm glad to help him out but I just don't know him well enough to throw an expensive saw at him.

Could you rent/loan him either saw if he is not using it all that often you then maybe get to keep them both as it seems you are a bit reluctant to see one go. Or as Jacob says find him a cheap consumer saw. You have feelings for both, so I would see if I could find a newer throw away model.

 

[andrethegiant70]

I see where this is going and I appreciate your opinions.

This person (who is a gal, actually, but her boyfriend would be doing the cutting) lives in Tennessee and has a small farm of thirty acres. Apparently they have some 24-inch oak they want to cut up, then the saw would make periodic appearances. I just can't see a Husqvarna 55 (which I actually do have available) really being appropriate for the task. Not to mention, I have money in the Husky, which is probably worth $150 or so on the market.

This is where CAD has got me into a bit of a bind. A few (most) of you will relate to this story. I have been wrenching on saws for a some years now and it has gotten around... a few work associates have even seen my shop to which they almost universally say "wow." I like to think I am a fairly generous guy and so when there were a few people who expressed a need for a saw I tried to accommodate them.. a craftsman here, a Poulan there, etc... low value but good running saws for the weekender. BUT, I'm sure you're of aware of the fact that this is a VERY slippery slope. Once people get the idea they can get something seriously cheap, they want it whether they need it or not. A little story got back to my ears the other day in which a guy (who I had just given a saw to) was singing my praises to a few other employees . Apparently he was heard to have said "Hey, if you need a saw, ask Steve, he's JUST GOT 'EM!" As if they inconveniently fell out of the sky on my head. Idiot.

Ok, enough ranting, sorry. The upshot is, my CAD is very much on the down low at work these days, but this is a very good gal and I don't want to give her a saw that is not up to the task. On the other hand, I don't want to just **** away a few hundred bucks. I know we've got some big Pioneer fans here, but frankly, they do not fetch much on the open market unless they are collectable, and these, even though they are runners, are a bit shabby-looking. I absolutely want one for my collection, so I'd like to make sure I get one worthy of the attention that I'll fawn on it. I also have a Farmsaw I'd like to wrench on (it's a bit lighter than these other tanks and I like the red.) But I'm certain I can spare one, and I just don't have the room to keep them all.

That's where you guys come in. Now... if you guys REALLY think that the reality is that I'd be sending a vintage, collectable saw to it's death or that these people would somehow blow themselves up with this saw I'll recant, buy some time, and try to find them something else. Just remember, these folks want the same deal everyone else got... basically... free.

 

[Jacob J.]

My argument wasn't on the "collectible" angle or anything of that sort- I was merely thinking you might give them something more modern that's going to be less maintenance and easier to get parts for when they do need to maintain it (or when you end up working on it for them.)

 

[andrethegiant70]

I sure can't argue with that, it's an excellent point. I am also slightly concerned with the liability of giving them something without a chain brake. Given the likelihood of coming up with a "free" 70 or 80cc saw (I consider this size appropriate for the wood they are cutting), it might be best to just tell them I don't have an appropriate saw right now. I actually DON'T mind giving away the Pioneer, but I am a touch anxious about who I'm giving it to. Great folks, mind you, and I have been told the boyfriend is good with machinery, but I have no firsthand knowledge.

These folks have been running a box store 33cc Homelite that they have realized isn't going to cut it (no pun intended) and would like to "upgrade" to a larger saw. I also don't want to sound sexist or anything ('cuz I don't believe I am) but this gal has a very "can do" attitude" (commendable if the ability is present but ill-advised if it's not) and might just jump right in there. As someone who is fully aware of how accidents happen (fatigue, training, and experience being huge factors) that little voice is nagging me a bit.

 

[Jacob J.]

You might be a lot better off letting them find their own bigger saw. There's plenty of low cost used larger saws in the classifieds, nickel ads, Craigslist, etc. If they have a "can do" attitude then they "can do" finding their own saw. It's not on you to provide every friend/family member/co-worker/7-11 clerk with their own pro-sized saw.

 

[andrethegiant70]

You might be a lot better off letting them find their own bigger saw. There's plenty of low cost used larger saws in the classifieds, nickel ads, Craigslist, etc. If they have a "can do" attitude then they "can do" finding their own saw. It's not on you to provide every friend/family member/co-worker/7-11 clerk with their own pro-sized saw.

Jacob, if you were wearing dirty bunny slippers you would be my wife!

Very sound thinking, of course.

 

[Rookie1]

Jacob, if you were wearing dirty bunny slippers you would be my wife!

Very sound thinking, of course.

What a sight that would be.

 

[andrethegiant70]

Hey, Ross! I take it you worked today.

 

[Rookie1]

Not today its Sunday here in Ohio. Wife made me work in the yard though. Good to see you spending more than a couple of minutes here on AS.

 

[andrethegiant70]

Not today its Sunday here in Ohio. Wife made me work in the yard though. Good to see you spending more than a couple of minutes here on AS.

See that?! I don't even know what day it is! Such is the life of EMS types! I'm getting behind on work as I sit here and fart around on AS but I don't care today... all work and no play makes Jack a complete jerk. Tomorrow will be different, though.. I'll have to put my game face back on.

What would Mr. Patterson do in my situation regarding this old magnesium?

 

[Rookie1]

Im thinking CAD would make me keep them both. Id try to come up with another "big" saw for them.